WelshBluebird Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 ( i really don't want to start this debate again, but there was an experiment here in the UK recently where several families had all media devices removed from their house for 2 weeks. This included games consoles TV's, PC's laptops e.t.c.over that two week period all the childrens were much calmer and hardly any sibling rivalry compared with beforehand. Families were much calmer all round. These were children who watched about 3 hours or played 3 hours of games a day. ) yep saw that. But what I got from it, is that it wasn't really the TV/games that were affecting the kids, but it was the fact the parents weren't spending any time with the kids. As soon as the parents starting to do things with the kids, things started the change, and I'd be willing to bet you would have seen the same positive result even if you kept the TV's etc, and just made the parents spend more time with the kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spookie Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 They're supposed to be an independent board, but clearly they have been influenced by the the UK's unrestrained media on this issue, not just the games content. Clearly? Right. Where's the evidence for it? Or are you just defending a hobby? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlibbyFlobby Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 Clearly? Right.Where's the evidence for it? Or are you just defending a hobby? They haven't refused to classify a game since Carmagedon in 1997, and I've seen some pretty violent games (and movies) since then. I really doubt there is anything in there an adult is not capable of viewing, or hasn't already been able to through other mediums already. So why would they attempt to ban the game? I severely doubt the decision was made purely on the content of the game alone, rather the media circus surrounding it. I'd be interested to see on what basis they made the decision though, perhaps their reasoning's should be made public under the Freedom of Information Act (after all they're independent). I don't know exactly what your implying by hobby. If you mean Manhunt 2 then no. I have no intentions to buy it, as I've previously mentioned. If you mean gaming then again no. There are millions of gamers worldwide, and I highly doubt gaming is going to get banned some how anyway. A lack of good old fashioned parenting and discipline is responsible for issues in society, not violent video games that are intended only for adults. Perhaps more parents should monitor what their kids do, watch and play these days. But its much easier to pass responsibility off onto a game instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spookie Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 I severely doubt the decision was made purely on the content of the game alone, rather the media circus surrounding it. I'd be interested to see on what basis they made the decision though, perhaps their reasoning's should be made public under the Freedom of Information Act (after all they're independent). So why was it given a AO in the US then? They didn't have the same tabloid problems as the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samn9 Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 Despite the violence, it is actually a very good game and get review scores of over 90% in some places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlibbyFlobby Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 So why was it given a AO in the US then? They didn't have the same tabloid problems as the UK. What does the US have to do with the UK? I'm talking about the BBFC's decision to effectively ban the game. The fact its out in the US but not here just proves my point even further. Typically Europe isn't anyway near as strict on violent content (except maybe Germany), so why a ban for the first time since 1997? It smacks of media and politics to me. All they've done is made it the number one most wanted game this summer now. They need to stop deciding what adults can and cannot play, they're a classification board, its not their job to censor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samboini Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 Wow, reading this thread really brings to light how many 14 year olds there is on Neowin. No names... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosine Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 The fact its out in the US but not here just proves my point even further. Out in the US? What? First of all, the game got an AO, meaning you practically can't buy it anywhere. Second of all, Nintendo and Sony already said the game isn't ever going to be released on their respective consoles in it's current form. I have no idea why you keep harping on this, because even if the game had been rated in the UK it still wouldn't be released for the exact same reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlibbyFlobby Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 Out in the US? What? First of all, the game got an AO, meaning you practically can't buy it anywhere. Second of all, Nintendo and Sony already said the game isn't ever going to be released on their respective consoles in it's current form. I have no idea why you keep harping on this, because even if the game had been rated in the UK it still wouldn't be released for the exact same reason. UK retailers will stock it, if it ever gets rated. Just like they stock and sell the original Manhunt. You also said yourself it won't be allowed in its current form. I highly doubt Rockstar will dump the game, especially when its probably cost them a lot of money and development time to produce. They'll make the necessary changes to have it released. You've been harping on about Manhunt 2 in another thread. Pot, kettle, black? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosine Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 UK retailers will stock it, if it ever gets rated. Just like they stock and sell the original Manhunt. You also said yourself it won't be allowed in its current form. I highly doubt Rockstar will dump the game, especially when its probably cost them a lot of money and development time to produce. They'll make the necessary changes to have it released. Once the game is in a state that Nintendo and Sony will allow it to be published, it will be resubmitted to the BBFC, receive a rating, and be released in the UK. Simple as that, so I have no idea why you're still going on about some media-influenced conspiracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samn9 Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 It's sad that Rockstar have to release a watered-down version of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlibbyFlobby Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 Once the game is in a state that Nintendo and Sony will allow it to be published, it will be resubmitted to the BBFC, receive a rating, and be released in the UK. Simple as that, so I have no idea why you're still going on about some media-influenced conspiracy. Because they shouldn't have to, and surely that's the point. It should be rated adult only, and released. I also don't see where these console manufacturers get off telling people what games they can and cannot sell on their consoles. Its the games that keep their consoles selling, hence them in business. Not the other way around. I also never said there was a conspiracy, but I seriously doubt the decision was made on the game content alone. Much worse things have received ratings from the BBFC before. Convenient a game that supposedly 'caused a murder' cannot get one though. Like I mentioned though, I feel their reasoning for such decisions should be made public under the FOI Act, then we would really know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshBluebird Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 I also never said there was a conspiracy, but I seriously doubt the decision was made on the game content alone. Much worse things have received ratings from the BBFC before. Convenient a game that supposedly 'caused a murder' cannot get one though. Like I mentioned though, I feel their reasoning for such decisions should be made public under the FOI Act, then we would really know. QFT. Also, a little point here. I've heard and read that Manhunt 2 is actually a bit less violent than the orignal (with the exception of using the wiimote) and so how come the orignal was given and 18, but the sequel won't be given a rating? The Media Circus about violent games, and the BS about manhunt making someone kill another person. Thats why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosine Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 I also don't see where these console manufacturers get off telling people what games they can and cannot sell on their consoles. Its the games that keep their consoles selling, hence them in business. Not the other way around. Well, you see, it's their console. As such, they can do whatever they damn well please. Everything has to be signed to run on the hardware, and if it's not signed and authorized by Nintendo or Sony, it doesn't run. Again, this is how it's always been. It's perfectly within their bounds to do so. And honestly, Manhunt 2 could never be released ever and I really doubt Sony or Nintendo would actually care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samn9 Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 Although they have the right to refuse to allow the game to be sold on their systems, I don't think it's in their or the consumer's best interests to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlibbyFlobby Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 Well, you see, it's their console. As such, they can do whatever they damn well please. Everything has to be signed to run on the hardware, and if it's not signed and authorized by Nintendo or Sony, it doesn't run. Again, this is how it's always been. It's perfectly within their bounds to do so. And honestly, Manhunt 2 could never be released ever and I really doubt Sony or Nintendo would actually care. Perhaps. Either way, its still biting the hand that feeds them. You can bet if this were a game guaranteed to shift millions of units both Sony and Nintendo would gladly bend the 'rules' to make a profit though. They may pretend to be ethical and family orientated, but profit is always the bottom line. Sony and Nintendo may not be bothered too, but many customers will be. Manhunt 2 may not be the most popular game about, but the sequel clearly insinuates there is a demand from gamers. Its just a shame they feel the need to block a game because of its adult rating and content. Consoles aren't purely for kids, and if they think they are they clearly don't have their demographics in check. What's more, grown adults are mature enough to decide for themselves what to play. They don't need the BBFC, Sony and Nintendo playing Nanny knows best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PL_ Veteran Posted June 24, 2007 Veteran Share Posted June 24, 2007 Wow, reading this thread really brings to light how many 14 year olds there is on Neowin. No names... You say "14 year old" like it's a bad thing :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy0 Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 I personally cannot see why people say using the wiimote makes it any worse than using a different controller, all you are doing is going to wave it up/down or left/right or some other motion, this is hardly what I would call mimicking the actions. I can't see how that is any worse than pressing a combination of buttons that require no waving movement at all. Also I do agree with ziadoz, the original Manhunt was given an 18, but I think the media has hyped up that 'Manhunt muder' that now the BBFC will not classify the sequel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlibbyFlobby Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 You say "14 year old" like it's a bad thing :/ More importantly. Should 14 year olds be playing Manhunt? :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samn9 Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 I don't think you need a game to figure out how to kill someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neoadorable Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 cosine now here i have to digress...it's not "their console", it's ours, their design and hardwork, our money. never forget that if it weren't for us they wouldn't make those machines to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosine Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 cosine now here i have to digress...it's not "their console", it's ours, their design and hardwork, our money. never forget that if it weren't for us they wouldn't make those machines to begin with. No, really, it's their console. They can impose any limits they see fit. Let's use Neowin Subscribers as an example. It's their account, technically. They even paid money for it. However, even though it's their account, they have to play by Neowin's rules. The Wii is Nintendo's console. Developers who want to publish titles on it have to play by Nintendo's rules. If they say your game isn't coming out, it sure as hell isn't coming out. For the millionth time, this is how it always has been and will be. It's not a hard concept to grasp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neoadorable Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 you're taking the pargamtic view, i'm coming from a so-called moral aspect..there's no doubt consoles are more regulated than PC's, that's why we like them, for the law and order and knowing someone's looking over what goes on the playing field. HOWEVER, we are stakeholders and the reason consoles exist, your viewpoint makes it seem like those guys are doing us a big huge favor by granting us (limited) rights to enjoy the blessed wonders of their machines...comon dude you know it's not like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosine Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 You can argue this all you want, but it's not going to change the way things are. If it bothers you that much you're more than welcome to take up PC gaming. I wouldn't be surprised if the PC saw an AO version of Manhunt 2 somewhere down the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neoadorable Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 this hostile attitude is totally out of place. i'm not arguing, just talking to you, you know, this being a forum for discussion. and i just gave up PC gaming eight months ago to "take up" consoles again, didn't you know? it's fine you're towing the company line, but a bit more good will would go a long way from everyone, especially posters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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