Nicholas-c Veteran Posted September 13, 2007 Veteran Share Posted September 13, 2007 McLaren have been stripped of their points in the 2007 Formula One constructors' championship after the outcome of the "spygate" row.The team were also fined a record $100m (?49.2m), which includes any prize and television money they would have earned from the constructors' championship. But drivers Lewis Hamilton and Fernando Alonso can keep their points. The team must also prove there is no Ferrari "intellectual property" in their cars next year before racing. The decision means Ferrari, who go into this weekend's Belgian Grand Prix second in the constructors' championship, 57 points ahead of third-placed BMW Sauber, are almost certain to be crowned champions. When he left the hearing, FIA president Max Mosley was asked if justice had been done, and replied "Yes". A Ferrari statement said: "In light of new evidence, facts and behaviour of an extremely serious nature and grossly prejudicial to the interest of the sport have been further demonstrated. "Ferrari is satisfied that the truth has now emerged." The World Motor Sport Council said it would publish the reasoning behind its verdict on Friday. And McLaren team chief Ron Dennis said he would wait until then before deciding whether to appeal. "We believe we have grounds for appeal but of course we are going to wait for the findings of the FIA which are going to be published," Dennis explained. "The most important thing is that we go motor racing this weekend, the rest of the season and next season." Although he was clearly relieved that the team could continue racing, Dennis was understandably upset at what he saw as the besmirching of the team name. "Having been at the hearing I do not accept that we deserve to be penalised or our reputation damaged in this way," he said. "Today's evidence given to the FIA by our drivers, engineers and staff clearly demonstrated we did not use any leaked information to gain a competitive advantage. "The WMSC received statements from Fernando Alonso, Lewis Hamilton and Pedro de la Rosa stating categorically no Ferrari information had been used by McLaren, and that no confidential data had been passed to the team. "The entire engineering team in excess of 140 people provided statements to the FIA affirming they had never received or used the Ferrari information. "We have never denied that the information from Ferrari was in the personal possession of one of our employees at his home. "The issue is: was this information used by McLaren? This is not the case and has not been proven." At the first hearing into the row, on 26 July, McLaren got off without punishment, but another hearing was convened after new evidence emerged, and that led to the points deduction and huge financial penalty. Three-time world champion Sir Jackie Stewart believes there is more information to be made public. "All I can say, without being in full command of all of the information, is that the offence must be considerably larger than has been projected either by the governing body of the sport or within the media," he told BBC Radio 5live. "This isn't murder that has been carried out, this is something that has happened before and there wasn't even a fine or disciplinary action taken by the same governing body. "There is something very strange going on, there is no doubt about that. "From what information we have been given so far, this does not constitute a penalty of this scale with regards to the crime that has been carried out. "And even if they were found guilty of that particular crime, it doesn't justify this kind of penalty." Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport...one/6991147.stm All i can say is "Ouch" Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/587596-mclaren-hit-by-constructors-ban/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
metallithrax Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 Why post this here knowing there is a thread for F1? There is no point to multiple threads and this can be discussed in the other thread. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/587596-mclaren-hit-by-constructors-ban/#findComment-588847033 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian M. Veteran Posted September 13, 2007 Veteran Share Posted September 13, 2007 [Thread Moved Here] Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/587596-mclaren-hit-by-constructors-ban/#findComment-588847053 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkMan Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 Why post this here knowing there is a thread for F1? There is no point to multiple threads and this can be discussed in the other thread. So everythign about F1 should be crammed into one single thread, so there's no chance at all of having a coherent discusion about one topic about F1? really come on. where does this need to only have on thead for every category of events and related discussions come from ? Anyway , if they where fined I'd say they deserve it, and one of their people did spy, that's their responsibility, it's not FIA that besmirched their name, they did that themselves. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/587596-mclaren-hit-by-constructors-ban/#findComment-588847077 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rappy Veteran Posted September 13, 2007 Veteran Share Posted September 13, 2007 Good thing theres alot of money in F1 Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/587596-mclaren-hit-by-constructors-ban/#findComment-588847131 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bawx Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 So.. fined for what? Spygate scandal, what is it? There was Ferrari parts in an McLaren car? Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/587596-mclaren-hit-by-constructors-ban/#findComment-588847137 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicholas-c Veteran Posted September 13, 2007 Author Veteran Share Posted September 13, 2007 So.. fined for what? Spygate scandal, what is it? There was Ferrari parts in an McLaren car? Yes and No, but that is what Ferrari (and the FIA) think... A member of staff (i think he was pretty high) got a book containing Ferarri's car setup's etc and they think McLaren have used this to get faster times and beat them in the races. Kinda bad sportsman-ship to a degree on both sides Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/587596-mclaren-hit-by-constructors-ban/#findComment-588847151 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shibby Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 It's a ban on just basicly McLaren for having documents. It mostly boils down to Ron Denis, such as did he know they had come in to contact with such documents. It seems Ferrari could also carry this on into the court room. Hopefully a jude will see sense and say it's up to the FIA as they are the governing body fot F1 Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/587596-mclaren-hit-by-constructors-ban/#findComment-588847162 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 I think it is very harsh on McLaren considering the actual crime. $100 million dollars is a Godly amount of money, and they will lose a lot of money through scoring nothing in the constructors Championship. I think there will be more information to be unveilled to the public soon, but at the moment I think it is unfair on McLaren...if there is new evidence however my opinion may change. Ferrari are renowned for being the biggest cheats in Formula 1, and yet nothing was done to stop them years ago. It is a sad day for Formula 1. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/587596-mclaren-hit-by-constructors-ban/#findComment-588847209 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicholas-c Veteran Posted September 13, 2007 Author Veteran Share Posted September 13, 2007 I think it is very harsh on McLaren considering the actual crime. $100 million dollars is a Godly amount of money, and they will lose a lot of money through scoring nothing in the constructors Championship. I think there will be more information to be unveilled to the public soon, but at the moment I think it is unfair on McLaren...if there is new evidence however my opinion may change.Ferrari are renowned for being the biggest cheats in Formula 1, and yet nothing was done to stop them years ago. It is a sad day for Formula 1. Thats a yes and no statement there, if there drivers are still 1, 2 at end of season then i reckon they will get some good sponsors still but if they drop in the table then everything will go down hill Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/587596-mclaren-hit-by-constructors-ban/#findComment-588847226 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 Thats a yes and no statement there, if there drivers are still 1, 2 at end of season then i reckon they will get some good sponsors still but if they drop in the table then everything will go down hill They will lose money automatically because the more constructors points you score the more prize money you recieve. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/587596-mclaren-hit-by-constructors-ban/#findComment-588847260 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fourjays Veteran Posted September 14, 2007 Veteran Share Posted September 14, 2007 In 2004 Toyota stole (they weren't given) documents from Ferrari and built a car which was near identical to a Ferrari. No punishment. Why is it fair that McLaren get a punishment like this when they were given the documents by a Ferrari employee (who Ferrari are equally responsible for) and have a car that couldn't be more different from the Ferrari? I'll be very interested to read the FIA explanation as there are still many unanswered questions about the whole affair. Regards the money, it won't effect McLaren much. They have an annual income of $400 million for a start. Plus the fine is pretty much null and void. Firstly it gets reduced by the amount McLaren would have won in the constructors, which makes it somewhere between $50m and $70m. Then the money will most likely be put in next years prize pot, so they can win back the rest. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/587596-mclaren-hit-by-constructors-ban/#findComment-588848186 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 I thought the money would go to charity or something. But no. It goes to the World Motor Sport Council, the people who imposed the fine :laugh:! Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/587596-mclaren-hit-by-constructors-ban/#findComment-588848382 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fourjays Veteran Posted September 14, 2007 Veteran Share Posted September 14, 2007 http://fia1.greencathedral.com/resources/d...sion_130907.pdf The evidence/reasoning behind the World Motor Sport Council decision. It seems to me that Alonso and De La Rosa were heavily involved as well. Hopefully Dennis will sack them for their role in it. It still doesn't justify the penalty to me. Not when others have got away with much more. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/587596-mclaren-hit-by-constructors-ban/#findComment-588848558 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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