Everyone's Switching to Mac's

[iSimx]

yep! - switching to mac next week.

[Xero]

everyone around me I suppose :D

Everyone around me too, I've helped convert about 30 people myself. Shame Apple doesn't offer any sort of referral program.

[digitalsoft]

I'd switch to a mac (and use windows) if there hardware wasnt so over priced...

[Evolution]

Although I'm definitely a windows user, and if MS puts as much effort into their future OSs as they did Vista.... from the reset period to release.... then I'll never consider switching. However, I definitely think it's great that Apple is becoming more popular.... now Windows can finally start to have real competition in the consumer OS market.

[n301]

Nothing better than an OS vs OS beat down, please continue...

Makes popcorn

[Sjokkel]

I've been a professional in the IT business for a little more then a decade now. Back then Macs were these dull boxes with an OS that reminded me of the old atari days (i did miss a buzzing bee if i clicked on something though) but still it had a small bunch of people stating it was the best thing since man invented warm water.

In the beginning of those years the Mac started to stumble and almost fell until Stevie came along and started to tickle everybodies "i-want-gadget-button" with strong marketing campaigns. The Mac became stylish, trying to sell on looks. It performed pretty slow although ads proved otherwise. Then they secretly used the RDF they created to switch to a linux-kind of environment... placed a nice shell on that, pushed big dollars in marketing campaigns stating they reinvented the warm water.

A little later they take standard PC hardware, stuff it in a brushed aluminum, or shiny white plastic cover, put out all the bells and wistles that they again reinvented a new version of warm water.

After all these years the only things i've seen them do is create a user shell, some simple apps (easy to use ofcourse) you can find on snapfiles, and a nice box to hold standard PC hardware made by poor chinese children.

Although, i still think a Macbook is a nice top quality laptop for the price and it gives you a chance to run Windows, but without leeching on anothers back a Mac never became anything better than a workstation for a home environment, or maybe a standalone workstation in a shop that has to be simple and looks sleek.

In my job i need something i can roll out in companies with more then a few people, and that certainly is not Mac. I might get one for my girlfriend to have a stylish place in the livingroom some day though.

Just trying to break the RDF with my 2 nafls/cents.

[Samboini]

I can see where the appeal lies but personally i'm a Windows guy myself. My mum has an MBP and I do use it occassionally but I find it so much easier to use XP. It's probably down to the fact i've been on XP forever whereas OS X much less, however I think BG is much nicer than SJ :rofl:

[JiveMasterT]

I use both. In fact I have 2 Macs, 4 PCs, and 1 Windows 2003 box.

It's just a pain getting used to keyboard shortcuts on the Mac and figuring out all the tweaks and stuff. There is also the lovely DS_Store files that the Macs leave on Windows boxes when you browse them :p I actually prefer to use my PC for image editting and the Mac for doing email, wireless sniffing, and other security related items. I really use them both equally though.

At the end of the day they are just operating systems. You pick one you like and you stick with it. You gotta learn both and I've found OSX no easier to learn than Windows was at first.

[instant.human]

I've been a professional in the IT business for a little more then a decade now. Back then Macs were these dull boxes with an OS that reminded me of the old atari days (i did miss a buzzing bee if i clicked on something though) but still it had a small bunch of people stating it was the best thing since man invented warm water.

In the beginning of those years the Mac started to stumble and almost fell until Stevie came along and started to tickle everybodies "i-want-gadget-button" with strong marketing campaigns. The Mac became stylish, trying to sell on looks. It performed pretty slow although ads proved otherwise. Then they secretly used the RDF they created to switch to a linux-kind of environment... placed a nice shell on that, pushed big dollars in marketing campaigns stating they reinvented the warm water.

A little later they take standard PC hardware, stuff it in a brushed aluminum, or shiny white plastic cover, put out all the bells and wistles that they again reinvented a new version of warm water.

After all these years the only things i've seen them do is create a user shell, some simple apps (easy to use ofcourse) you can find on snapfiles, and a nice box to hold standard PC hardware made by poor chinese children.

Although, i still think a Macbook is a nice top quality laptop for the price and it gives you a chance to run Windows, but without leeching on anothers back a Mac never became anything better than a workstation for a home environment, or maybe a standalone workstation in a shop that has to be simple and looks sleek.

In my job i need something i can roll out in companies with more then a few people, and that certainly is not Mac. I might get one for my girlfriend to have a stylish place in the livingroom some day though.

Just trying to break the RDF with my 2 nafls/cents.

interesting point youre making.

unfortunately you dont seem to be that informed, although you worked in the it business as a professional for more than a decade now.

its not about the looks alone.

its about the, in the eyes of many people, also professionals, best OS out there plus the perfect interaction of fitting hardware in a very good designed case, while the last point is a matter of taste of course.

did you ever really try out mac os, while i must say mac osx, mac os9 cant be compared really? i guess you did.

what did you experience? a slowish, bloated, uneconomic operating system?

i would like to know which version you tried.

or you didnt try any. if thats the case you should stay out of this topic.

but then again that was just your 2 cents and thats of course absolutely okay and i appreciate that. =)

[Jordan Green]

i switched to mac about 2 months ago now, but have used the OS before for a lot longer.

But i agree i think more people are actually purchasing macs now!

[PyX]

I use both. In fact I have 2 Macs, 4 PCs, and 1 Windows 2003 box.

It's just a pain getting used to keyboard shortcuts on the Mac and figuring out all the tweaks and stuff. There is also the lovely DS_Store files that the Macs leave on Windows boxes when you browse them :p I actually prefer to use my PC for image editting and the Mac for doing email, wireless sniffing, and other security related items. I really use them both equally though.

At the end of the day they are just operating systems. You pick one you like and you stick with it. You gotta learn both and I've found OSX no easier to learn than Windows was at first.

thumbs.db isn't friendly either on Windows, right?

But why so many computers? :s

[Simon Veteran]

There's definitely more Macs around. A year and a half ago, when I bought a Mac, I had only played with them in stores and read about them, and I loved the reviews, so I ordered a Mac Mini. Now, my brother has a macbook, 2 of my friends have macbooks, and I have a macbook pro. I've also noticed them a lot around town, compared to what it was like before.

To those of you who consider people who use Macs and talk about them here members of a cult, or fanboys, all of the Windows people seem to spend all of their time flaming Apple and talking about Windows in their own forums. We stay out of Windows forums if we don't have anything nice to say, wanna do us the same favor please? (Linux users are generally nicer towards Mac users, in my experience).

[JiveMasterT]

thumbs.db isn't friendly either on Windows, right?

But why so many computers? :s

thumbs.db sucks too, but at least Windows has a thumbnail preview mode :)

PCs:

Work Supplied Dell Laptop (main clean machine for working remote and stuff)

Work Supplied Dell Desktop (dev box that handles version control, software testing, VMWare, etc)

Personal Gaming Machine

Personal IBM Laptop used for tuning Subarus and datalogging, previously used for school work

Macs:

Personal Macbook for school (replaced the IBM laptop as my main laptop due to awesome battery life)

Work Supplied G4 Tower (for more testing AdmitMac, Lotus Notes, McAfee stuff, and development with XCode)

Server:

Personal Server that runs IIS for demoing websites, server side scripts, and other items for clients and doing testing and development of my own personal stuff.

Basically - I have a normal 9-5 job and I do outside web and application development. I also go to grad school and log Subaru WRXs and STis (or flash the ECU) for myself and my local people when I'm not working on stuff. You'd think I was wealthy or something after all of that and at the end of the day, I'm just not paid enough for my time haha. My point is that both operating systems have their purposes and at the end of the day you gotta use what is comfortable and what lets you get the job done quickly. When you're under the gun you better be using something you know how to use and can also get the job done. This day in age, having a Windows box and a Mac is normal in my book.

[NateB1]

I'm still waiting for someone to convince me, or any of the family/friends I support, to buy a Mac.

Name just one major capability OS X has over Windows. Ease of use and asthetics don't count because they are nebulous - what could be easy to use to one person could be a major pain to another. I'm talking about a capability, built into the OS, that Windows doesn't have.

Rebutting a few of the petty arguments I have heard OS X users bring up again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again (ad nauseum):

Security: I am a user that uses protected mode in IE7 (a reduced permissions mode OS X doesn't have, BTW), doesn't click pop-up ads, and uses an extremely light and invisible security suite (OneCare - I know it isn't the best, but I want ease of use and a light footprint, as well as cheap). I have my mom and other inexperienced computer users on a standard account, with me being the sole person who knows the admin (or "root") password. I have never encountered a virus, and neither have they. Period. In fact, their computers are just as secure, if not more, than OS X. UAC isn't annoying, because I actually run programs that respect UAC and don't pop up unnecessary prompts - in fact, I haven't encountered a UAC prompt for days. UAC doesn't annoy me in the slightest. Question to OS X users: Can someone programmatically gain control of the keyboard and mouse, programmatically click on the unlock icon, and enter the password via simulated keystrokes? If so, then UAC has a security benefit over Apple's implementation, even though it is slightly more intrusive.

Stability: I use good quality components in the computers I build, as well as make sure the hardware vendors support Vista. Other than Creative (and nVidia to some extent), drivers have been a literal non-issue. Once I set up the computer, the users I support never have to deal with driver issues, and they have never encountered a driver BSOD issue. In fact, with the vast majority of computers that use integrated sound, everything works out of the box without having to install any drivers at all. As far as crashing goes, I would say that OS X crashes more than Vista - when I do presentations/teaching a computer class, I would much rather rely on Vista than OS X. I have heard too many reports where OS X freezes in the middle of a presentation - something that has never happened to me when I run Windows.

Speed: I have no idea what everyone is complaining about the speed issue with Vista. Maybe because I read the requirements for Vista and build computers accordingly, but the computers I have tested run much faster with Vista installed than XP - so much, in fact, that my mom, who doesn't know a whole lot about computers, noticed the speed increase (this was on the same computer I installed XP on a couple months before). The defragger is excellent, runs in the background, and rivals commercial defraggers like Diskeeper. I have never encountered the file transfer issue, but those with this issue will go away with the service pack coming out this next spring.

Applications: I would like a computer that can do anything - from reading email, to surfing, to playing games, to recording TV, without involving multiple OSs. There is only one OS to date, that can do that. Period. End of story. I can work in Photoshop (yes it load faster in Vista than it does in OS X - superfetch ftw!), record a TV show and play HL2 at the same time, minimize HL2, do some websurfing, check email, IM a few friends, and hop back into HL2, something that is utterly impossible to do on OS X.

Ease of use: Vista beats OS X, IMO by a large margin, simply because the vast majority of users use Windows at businesses (which will not change any time soon), and are already familiar with the user interface. With logging in users as a "Standard" user, I fail to see how OS X provides any benefit here. Explorer beats Finder, even with Leopard. In the new Finder, can you filter files(for example, say you have a download folder with a thousand items, and you want to find a zip file that was created a year ago. You can filter out the file types so only zip files show, and then filter the date to a range of dates or a single date)? Create "stacks" of files with similar properties, using the Finder, and save them as "saved searches"? Use instant search in the standard Open/save dialogs? Provide access to programs, settings, web browsing, run terminal commands, etc. all from one central location (the Start Menu)? Be able to view all open programs clearly and easily, with text showing the program and/or file name (I dare you to create 50 empty Word documents on OS X, label them differently, open them all at once, and quickly and easily be able to navigate to a specifically named document)? Access your photos that are in iPhoto 08 in the Finder without having to decompress a zipped file, export them, or "hack" it in any way? Keep your own folder structure and have iTunes respect it? This is not counting all the other annoyances like being able to control what your laptop does when you shut the lid, not being able to maximize a window (I am a task-oriented person - I want to view only one thing at a time and fill up the screen so I won't be distracted by other windows below it), not being able to adjust the height/width of a window from any corner or side I wish.

Computer options: I like configuring my computer the way I want. Dell will let me do that. I can build a computer exactly the way I want. If I want a computer that will let me play Crysis, I can do that fairly cheaply. However, I cannot configure a computer in the Apple store that will give me the specs I want, and even if it did, the price would be insane. Yes, certain configurations of Apple products match the competition, but if you vary, like add 2 Gb more memory, Macs quickly become more expensive than their PC counterparts. I cannot legally install OS X on a computer I build, using specs I want.

Memory management: Superfetch is an absolutely amazing memory management technology. My mom uses Outlook, Word, and Excel, and all are cached. Loading any of the applications are nearly instantaneous, even from the first time after booting. I use Photoshop, Premiere, and After Effect a lot, and they load amazingly quickly. OS X contains no such feature.

Built-in Apps: Vista's CD/DVD burner works great, you can select pictures in Photo Gallery and click "Burn to DVD", and transitions, timing, and picture length is automatically calculated. It is amazingly simple and easy to use. Plus, Photo Gallery doesn't compress your images into a file, but saves changes you make using the shadow copy feature. You can, believe it or not, access the photos directly in Explorer. Windows Media Center is lightyears above Front Row - I am constantly impressed with the capabilities of the program, from burning DVDs and CDs using only your remote, to accessing online content, with the TV guide for over-the-air broadcasts, to creating your own app that ties in to Media Center. The rest of the apps in OS X, like the capability to burn iso images and iChat, are "meh" at best. Microsoft would get sued if they included WLM in Vista, and hardly anyone other than power users know what an "iso" image is, let alone how to use it.

---------------------------------------

I don't want to "get used" to anything that makes my life more convoluted and complicated. I want the computer to work the way I want. If I don't want my music stored the way Steve Jobs thinks I should, there should be a way for me to store the music the way I want. Period. End of story. Same goes for maximizing windows, and practically anything Steve Jobs has influenced in OS X. I want options. I don't want to do it only one way. Yes, OS X works great if you like doing things the way Steve wants you to do them, but just try to do something outside of his vision for OS X, and you will encounter obstacle after obstacle (wonder why the Microsoft Office team couldn't duplicate Office 2007 for Macs? The HIG provides radical UI innovation opportunities, all for the sake of "consistency". Yes, consistency is important to some extent, but it also stifles creativity and innovation).

Have I missed anything?

I do see a few uses for OS X, however:

1. Users who have not ever used a computer before and do not know any knowledgeable Windows expert and/or know a OS X expert

2. Specialized settings (like printing) where Postscript is king - although this is not as important as it used to be

3. Users who constantly like changing OSs and want to explore every option available, simply because they like trying something "new"

4. Users who come from a Unix background and like the unix/BSD core of OS X

Oh, and by the way, exactly zero of the family/friends I support have moved to OS X, and I have not put any obstacles in their way (i.e. threaten lack of support, etc.) to switch to OS X. As long as the OS works and does what they want, with no spyware and virus problems, why should they move?

Edited October 22, 2007 by NateB1

[BoDEAN]

Must be more people are not playing computer games, and using their wii's or xbox360s, as the game support for Mac, well, you know, dry.

[sundayx Veteran]

NateB1 if someone convinced you then you'd be on a Mac. If not then it's obvious why you're still on Windows. The problem is the effort or knowledge you need to have Windows running at an efficient and secure way. Of course you'd think its simple because you're aware of the stuff out there and the methods to work with a Windows machine without the hiccups. But the fact is there is a lot of people who don't, and what they have heard on the streets is how Macs is able to alleviate their problems. If the solution is there, then why not take it?

The choice is given to the consumers. If they select Macs, then your arguments will do nothing to convince them to go through the miseries they had with a Windows machine, not even on Vista.

[Sillysam]

WHO CARES ABOUT SWITCHERS! In my opinion use what you like Apple will never be as strong as MS for only one reason HARDWARE, not really any options out there for upgrades ect..

[sundayx Veteran]

WHO CARES ABOUT SWITCHERS! In my opinion use what you like Apple will never be as strong as MS for only one reason HARDWARE, not really any options out there for upgrades ect..

Bold claim. What happens if Apple chooses to release a hardware flexible product? Mac Pro is a good start, though it might be expensive, Apple could choose to release a more economic machine in hte future. Then what if Apple releases OSX as a standalone universal OS? It is not a definite impossibility.

[KeR]

I'm still waiting for someone to convince me, or any of the family/friends I support, to buy a Mac.

Name just one major capability OS X has over Windows..................

^^ Since you did take time to write such a lengthy response I'll point out a major flaw in your reasoning.

You are basing your conclusions without having a balanced background. You only use a Windows based PC and not a Mac with OS X. All you did is make assumptions...I'd like to think no one can say which is better, but I do know one thing; I use both.

[NateB1]

NateB1 if someone convinced you then you'd be on a Mac. If not then it's obvious why you're still on Windows. The problem is the effort or knowledge you need to have Windows running at an efficient and secure way. Of course you'd think its simple because you're aware of the stuff out there and the methods to work with a Windows machine without the hiccups. But the fact is there is a lot of people who don't, and what they have heard on the streets is how Macs is able to alleviate their problems. If the solution is there, then why not take it?

The choice is given to the consumers. If they select Macs, then your arguments will do nothing to convince them to go through the miseries they had with a Windows machine, not even on Vista.

Note my exception list. I realize there are those people who are fine with running OS X. I personally don't see any reason to switch, but I can see someone switching if they had a bad experience with Windows. If my post came out somewhat strong, that is because I am absolutely fed up with posts here and elsewhere bashing/flaming Microsoft products and especially Windows, simply because of past difficulties they have had with the platform, or because of the "intense competitive spirit" (I call it the Apple virus) that infests what seems like a majority of Apple users. Also note that I don't go into Apple forums and bash OS X, simply because it is OS X(For example, if someone's having issues with their Mac, I don't post annoying "Get a PC" posts). If I do post on an Apple topic, I back up my post with evidence and my reasons for not using it.

[markwolfe Veteran]

I'm still waiting for someone to convince me, or any of the family/friends I support, to buy a Mac.

<snip>

Nice (and very lengthy, I might add) speech on why you don't like Macs. However, this isn't a "let's convince NateB1 to buy a Mac" thread. In fact, it isn't a "convince anyone to buy a Mac" thread.

It is an observation that in the thread starter's small sampling of friends/relatives buying Apples. And this isn't even likely a complete "switching" as many of them probably own a Windows PC, as well. It is an increase of people diversifying their computing platforms. The increase of sales of Apple PCs is factual. It is happening. And I am pretty sure people here on Neowin don't care if NateB1 uses one (you obviously don't). Or if I do (I don't either).

Back on-topic: Yeah, I notice a lot more people with MacBooks out than I have ever noticed in the past.

[x-scratch]

ill never switch to a mac unless i was to win the lotto & like thats ever gonna happen

[phantasmorph]

You need to read this.

And please, everyone you know is not everyone, since you, and everyone else, can only accurately conceptualize about 150 people. I personally don't know a single person that owns an Apple, other than the handful of lemmings that have an iPod sitting around somewhere.

[NateB1]

Nice (and very lengthy, I might add) speech on why you don't like Macs. However, this isn't a "let's convince NateB1 to buy a Mac" thread. In fact, it isn't a "convince anyone to buy a Mac" thread.

It is an observation that in the thread starter's small sampling of friends/relatives buying Apples. And this isn't even likely a complete "switching" as many of them probably own a Windows PC, as well. It is an increase of people diversifying their computing platforms. The increase of sales of Apple PCs is factual. It is happening. And I am pretty sure people here on Neowin don't care if NateB1 uses one (you obviously don't). Or if I do (I don't either).

Back on-topic: Yeah, I notice a lot more people with MacBooks out than I have ever noticed in the past.

I was simply providing a counterpoint to the original post. None of the family/friends I support are getting Macs, as opposed to the OP's family and friends who are purchasing Macs. I probably went a bit too long, but I simply fail to grasp why getting a Mac is (1) special, and (2) advantageous over Windows. I'm also responding to posters in previous posts who were advocating OS X over Windows for various reasons.

[ritsuke Veteran]

I don't particularly care for this trend. After all, the more Windows users who switch, the less you can value these threads for the shear entertainment value.