Terminator Salvation : The Future Begins

By Rappy
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Grand Master

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Well for one they didn't want him listed as it was supposed to be a surprise for the fans. And he never actually acted. He just provided motion capture for his face and I think some voiceover work. They did mention using the full body mold from T1 but I think that might have just been for when acting, not the final cut. The T1 Arnold mold looked pretty damn fake and obvious it was.

As much as I want to get details I'll hold back. Scraggles, how'd you like the ending? Was it a good ending, a bad one? Without spoiling anything of course, curious if it ended on a cliffhanger or something more relaxed like the first 2.

And Audio, what isn't these days? I don't think it'll hurt the film very much but I will be picking up my unrated copy when its released.

Grand Master

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The Dark Knight was PG-13 and look how popular it is.

I don't care about The Dark Knight, different franchise. Look at how popular T2 is.

I care about the experiences presented by the past Terminators. T3 cut things down bad enough, but this probably won't even have blood :laugh:

Aliens versus Predator was a laugh being PG-13 this will be as well.

Now the movie will probably still be good, I'm talking about atmosphere, special effects and the general feeling given off. I don't need soldiers fighting a war against the machines saying "oh deary me, crap, I've been shot". "Oh you big bad terminator I'm going to kill you!" etc etc.

Grand Master

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I don't care about The Dark Knight, different franchise. Look at how popular T2 is.

I care about the experiences presented by the past Terminators. T3 cut things down bad enough, but this probably won't even have blood :laugh:

Aliens versus Predator was a laugh being PG-13 this will be as well.

Now the movie will probably still be good, I'm talking about atmosphere, special effects and the general feeling given off. I don't need soldiers fighting a war against the machines saying "oh deary me, crap, I've been shot". "Oh you big bad terminator I'm going to kill you!" etc etc.

Regardless of the franchise, the comparison is still fully valid. So because every other word isn't swearing the movie will suddenly suck? Remove all the swearing from T2 and that movie would likely pass for a PG-13 film by today's standard, even with Arnold slicing his skin off. There are plenty of PG-13 films with its fair share of swearing, so removing that element shouldn't make or break a movie. TDK, again, had minimal swearing, a decent share of violence and was a masterpiece with a PG-13 rating.

Grand Master

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Regardless of the franchise, the comparison is still fully valid. So because every other word isn't swearing the movie will suddenly suck? Remove all the swearing from T2 and that movie would likely pass for a PG-13 film by today's standard, even with Arnold slicing his skin off. There are plenty of PG-13 films with its fair share of swearing.

Maybe you should read my post, specifically this part

Now the movie will probably still be good, I'm talking about atmosphere, special effects and the general feeling given off. I don't need soldiers fighting a war against the machines saying "oh deary me, crap, I've been shot". "Oh you big bad terminator I'm going to kill you!" etc etc.

I just don't like Hollywood deliberately toning things down to get under the radar as a PG-13. The amount of classics films from the 80's and 90's rated R that if you were to go back and transform into PG13 I do not think the fans would be happy.

It's not just about swearing, being a PG13 tones down violence/blood and adult themes also. Swearing is only part of it, part of it that still adds to immersion. You don't fight against terminators using posh english dialect.

And the comparisons of Terminator to Batman aren't that justified, Terminator has always had a much more nitty gritty realistic approach to violence/gore, where as Batman has always stemmed more from comic book violence. You don't expect lots of realistic violence, language and blood in a Batman flick. The original batman flicks weren't rated R, Terminator ones were.

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Grand Master

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Um, I did read what you posted, but your actions and words did not align. "PG-13? SCREW THAT!" was your attitude, so I stand by what I said.

Why are you getting on the defence regarding the quality of the movie?

How can I say it any different, "the movie will still probably be good". I'll go watch it before judging it.

I am saying PG-13, screw that, but that's not Terminator Salvation, screw that.

Grand Master

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Yea I feel you Audioboxer. The lack of heavy swearing will play a factor. I certainly wouldn't be running for my life and not be cussing up a storm. Think of Predator, "You're one UGLY ...alien" Just doesn't work. While Dark Knight didn't need heavy swearing this genre of film definitely warrants it. Though PG13 doesn't cancel it out, just might not drop an f bomb every other word.

And does PG13 mean no blood or just acceptable gore? There better be blood otherwise it makes no sense when people get hit. At the same time I agree with Mathachew as I don't think the rating will make a significant impact on the film. If you didn't know ahead of time I bet you probably wouldn't even notice. Maybe McG will push for an R rating for the sequels. I would love to see Terminators grabbing people and crushing their necks or ripping their limbs off. While we don't NEED it. They are certainly more than capable of doing so.

And yes 2 more days! I'll probably stay until after the credits but I'm guessing there will be nothing special. That stuff is usually announced before.

Grand Master

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Why are you getting on the defence regarding the quality of the movie?

How can I say it any different, "the movie will still probably be good". I'll go watch it before judging it.

I am saying PG-13, screw that, but that's not Terminator Salvation, screw that.

Because, again, of the attitude you have towards the fact that it's PG-13. In two separate threads you've complained about it, without having any real justification because you haven't seen the movie.

How about King Arthur? That movie had plenty of violence and blood in it. The quality of that movie wasn't that great, but it has the "nitty gritty realistic approach to violence/gore" you appear to be assuming won't be in this film.

For you, I hope it has all the blood and gore that a PG-13 can possibly have (I'm doubtful).

Grand Master

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Yea I feel you Audioboxer. The lack of heavy swearing will play a factor. I certainly wouldn't be running for my life and not be cussing up a storm. Think of Predator, "You're one UGLY ...alien" Just doesn't work. While Dark Knight didn't need heavy swearing this genre of film definitely warrants it. Though PG13 doesn't cancel it out, just might not drop an f bomb every other word.

And does PG13 mean no blood or just acceptable gore? There better be blood otherwise it makes no sense when people get hit. At the same time I agree with Mathachew as I don't think the rating will make a significant impact on the film. If you didn't know ahead of time I bet you probably wouldn't even notice. Maybe McG will push for an R rating for the sequels. I would love to see Terminators grabbing people and crushing their necks or ripping their limbs off. While we don't NEED it. They are certainly more than capable of doing so.

And yes 2 more days! I'll probably stay until after the credits but I'm guessing there will be nothing special. That stuff is usually announced before.

Well the game review talks about how the movie clips integrated into the game contain no blood :/

From a review

For one, it's definitely a PG-13 film, both in terms of tone and on screen violence.
The biggest disappointment for me was the PG-13 tone of the film--not nearly as bleak as the aesthetic. Though I don't feel that graphic violence is necessary to make a film enjoyable, there needs to be some sort of sincere menace for an action film to maintain tension. In "Salvation," however, the machines have become surprisingly helpless. Machines armed with machine guns do a lot of shooting, but I can't remember any humans ever getting shot. The humans themselves maintain a rather cheery attitude, as well as often enviable hygiene. There is no indication that any of them are bothered by the end of world or fatigued by all the fighting.
Because, again, of the attitude you have towards the fact that it's PG-13. In two separate threads you've complained about it, without having any real justification because you haven't seen the movie.

How about King Arthur? That movie had plenty of violence and blood in it. The quality of that movie wasn't that great, but it has the "nitty gritty realistic approach to violence/gore" you appear to be assuming won't be in this film.

For you, I hope it has all the blood and gore that a PG-13 can possibly have (I'm doubtful).

I think you'll find I have a bad attitude towards any franchise I like getting toned down, sorry, but that's just me :laugh: Next we'll have a Scarface sequel as a PG-13 from Hollywood :laugh:

I've told you twice now I predict the film will still be good, the cast are good, I like Christian Bale, I'll go watch it before commenting on how good the movie is.

However the fact it's PG-13 you and I both know it's not taking the same tone as the past films. Something I am disappointed about and can clearly comment on pre-film due to the experiences of what was in T1/T2, and what will probably have to be removed from T4 in comparison to those two to make it PG-13.

Grand Master

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I think you'll find I have a bad attitude towards any franchise I like getting toned down, sorry, but that's just me :laugh: Next we'll have a Scarface sequel as a PG-13 from Hollywood :laugh:

I've told you twice now I predict the film will still be good, the cast are good, I like Christian Bale, I'll go watch it before commenting on how good the movie is.

However the fact it's PG-13 you and I both know it's not taking the same tone as the past films. Something I am disappointed about and can clearly comment on pre-film due to the experiences of what was in T1/T2, and what will probably have to be removed from T4 in comparison to those two to make it PG-13.

That's all fine and dandy, and nothing wrong with it either. Personally I liked the fact that TDK didn't have glorified violence and was still dark, but that's just me :p

Grand Master

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That's all fine and dandy, and nothing wrong with it either. Personally I liked the fact that TDK didn't have glorified violence and was still dark, but that's just me :p

I agree with that though.

Grotesque violence, limbs going flying, f bombs all over the place and gallons of blood would not fit in a Batman flick, at least not on the history of the franchise. I would even go as far to say those things would probably have brought the movie down.

All those things though would fit fine into Terminator but :p

Grand Master

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I don't care about The Dark Knight, different franchise. Look at how popular T2 is.

I care about the experiences presented by the past Terminators. T3 cut things down bad enough, but this probably won't even have blood :laugh:

Aliens versus Predator was a laugh being PG-13 this will be as well.

Now the movie will probably still be good, I'm talking about atmosphere, special effects and the general feeling given off. I don't need soldiers fighting a war against the machines saying "oh deary me, crap, I've been shot". "Oh you big bad terminator I'm going to kill you!" etc etc.

That's a drastic leap to take.

You're also missing the point of someone bringing up The Dark Knight. They're saying look at how much that movie got in without being rated 'R.' They've already said they just shot the film as it was intended and took the rating that was given to them -- they weren't aiming for PG-13 or R, just whatever they got.

I don't exactly remember "Terminator" being chock full of limbs flying and all the stuff you're saying, either -- and I'm a massive fan of the franchise. Cursing, yes... but all this other stuff, since when?

Grand Master

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That's a drastic leap to take.

You're also missing the point of someone bringing up The Dark Knight. They're saying look at how much that movie got in without being rated 'R.' They've already said they just shot the film as it was intended and took the rating that was given to them -- they weren't aiming for PG-13 or R, just whatever they got.

Argggghhhh *head explodes*

The point isn't what the Dark Knight did or didn't get away with, my conclusions are coming from what I know IS in T1/T2 and how that's going to be cut.

I've just posted two segments above out of a review and you can clearly see things have been toned down. I didn't enjoy it in T3, but T3 as a film was pretty mediocre anyway.

Sorry, maybe I'm too old school and love the films of the 80s and 90s where there wasn't this obsession of "must allow every audience age to view our film in the cinema" :p I'm a Kevin Smith kind of guy, put whatever the **** would be suitable in a film if the scenario were true.

I don't exactly remember "Terminator" being chock full of limbs flying and all the stuff you're saying, either -- and I'm a massive fan of the franchise. Cursing, yes... but all this other stuff, since when?

One great scene that would easily be cut from T4 is in T2 where the T1000 has John's foster dad pinned to the fridge with his arm-blade. It's not just about lots of blood, it's how the violence is presented. Or earlier on when Arny fries the guys face off in the biker club, not insanely gorey, but that kind of violence would probably be cut from a PG-13.

Grand Master

Ayepecks

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Argggghhhh *head explodes*

The point isn't what the Dark Knight did or didn't get away with, my conclusions are coming from what I know IS in T1/T2 and how that's going to be cut.

I've just posted two segments above out of a review and you can clearly see things have been toned down. I didn't enjoy it in T3, but T3 as a film was pretty mediocre anyway.

Sorry, maybe I'm too old school and love the films of the 80s and 90s where there wasn't this obsession of "must allow every audience age to view our film in the cinema" :p I'm a Kevin Smith kind of guy.

One great scene that would easily be cut from T4 is in T2 where the T1000 has John's foster dad pinned to the fridge with his arm-blade.

I don't see how that would be put from a PG-13 movie now at all (referring to your last statement). That's rather mild nowadays.

I like R-rated movies as much as the next guy... but being PG-13 doesn't make it bad. You haven't even seen the movie and you're already judging it based on a couple of reviews.

Edit: And I honestly don't think your second example in your edit would be cut either.

Grand Master

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I don't see how that would be put from a PG-13 movie now at all (referring to your last statement). That's rather mild nowadays.

I like R-rated movies as much as the next guy... but being PG-13 doesn't make it bad. You haven't even seen the movie and you're already judging it based on a couple of reviews.

Edit: And I honestly don't think your second example in your edit would be cut either.

Oh maybe cut is the wrong word.

How about the way it's handled in Aliens vs Predator? Camera pans away the minute the scene is about to happen.

So they'd clearly hint at what is going down, maybe leave you with the sound effects, but actually seeing it? No.

There's a distinct lack of blood in a PG-13 as it is, there's no way a mans face impaled on a blade WITH blood, at which point the blade is retracted back through his head and he drops to the ground is getting into a PG-13. At least not without a load of camera cuts/bad angles/etc.

It may seem rather obsessive to be arguing over such small scenes, but they're parts I remember of the film to show off just how much the T1000 and T2 were in-humane, they didn't care about human beings at all - Until the T2 is "taught" to care.

What about in the hospital where the T1000 puts a blade right through the security guards eye?

This apparent bleakness is already hinted at being missing in the film.

Grand Master

Ayepecks

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Oh maybe cut is the wrong word.

How about the way it's handled in Aliens vs Predator? Camera pans away the minute the scene is about to happen.

So they'd clearly hint at what is going down, maybe leave you with the sound effects, but actually seeing it? No.

There's a distinct lack of blood in a PG-13 as it is, there's no way a mans face impaled on a blade WITH blood, at which point the blade is retracted back through his head and he drops to the ground is getting into a PG-13. At least not without a load of camera cuts/bad angles/etc.

It may seem rather obsessive to be arguing over such small scenes, but they're parts I remember of the film to show off just how much the T1000 and T2 were in-humane, they didn't care about human beings at all - Until the T2 is "taught" to care.

What about in the hospital where the T1000 puts a blade right through the security guards eye?

This apparent bleakness is already hinted at being missing in the film.

Yup, AVP handled it poorly. Luckily this isn't AVP, but we'll find out how this ne does it... also, you're forgetting that this isn't going to have a character like that (one that changes its body to make this objects) as it's not that far in the future. It's more going to be a futuristic war pic.

Going uppppp!

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/terminator_salvation/

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