Seagate CEO: Blu-ray won the battle but lost the war


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Hard drives are still not as reliable as optical media. It would suck to download 20 HD movies onto your hard drive from online retailers to have that hard drive go bad and have to download all that again.

Where? From what I can tell this is you completely changing directions since HD DVD is on the way out.

For every "internet distribution = good point" you made you've made 1000 HD DVD is t3h b3s7 evar posts.

Look for it. I've always said that optical media and GIGABYTES for the advantage of Blu-Ray in space is completely irrelevant as we will see new effective storage media like hard drives and other USB devices, that are much faster, rewritable and hold A LOT more storage while costing less.

Optical media only had purpose with movies, but that it would eventually be replaced by digital distribution.

Of course, people that support Blu-ray simply have no desire to look things that are relevant to the overall picture of things. You only see things that echo positive perspective for Blu-Ray.

I understand that, but quit telling me what is possible and start telling me whether or not consumers want it.

And why do you think they won't want it?

Here, take a look at Netflix vs Blockbuster. Netflix soared past Blockbuster with online service despite the fact that Blockbuster had a store in every neighborhood.

People were and still are to wait a day or TWO to get the movie, just so they don't have to get out of the couch and they get to watch unlimited movies for a fixed price.

With Netflix on-demand online movies, the situation is aready getting there for renting.

People will eat this up, only so far we really didn't have the infrastructure to do it so we can watch HD content.

If you notice, iTunes and their shows is making HUGE amounts of money and they continue increasing the quality of movies and shows you download. It was so successful it warranted Apple creating an Apple TV device for it. The device is being sold like hotcakes too at $300+ a pop.

Tell me, why do you think that XStreamHD technology at $399 that allows you unlimited HD movies you can buy, rent 24 hours a day at any moment? Imagine this, 4x 2TB Seagate harddrives in drive bays of the XStreamHD media center where you store all your movies you downloaded. The best part, when they are digital, you can actually back them up to another HDD and make sure that you have a safe copy. With Blu-Ray for example, if the disc gets damaged, you have to go and buy another copy of it. It is true that if your hard drive goes, everything goes so you tend to lose more, but if they offer downloads tracking like many stock photo or even itunes offer, you can redownload the movies you bought the license for again from the service. All in all, much more flexibility for the consumer.

Add to this the ability to watch the movies you downloaded on any device in your house like PS3, HD DVD player, computer, PSP etc makes it even more appealing.

Yeah, if these guys come out with affordable monthly fees and get the recievers at <$300 over time, they'll replace these pay-per-view services.

Look for it. I've always said that optical media and GIGABYTES for the advantage of Blu-Ray in space is completely irrelevant as we will see new effective storage media like hard drives and other USB devices, that are much faster, rewritable and hold A LOT more storage while costing less.

Optical media only had purpose with movies, but that it would eventually be replaced by digital distribution.

Of course, people that support Blu-ray simply have no desire to look things that are relevant to the overall picture of things. You only see things that echo positive perspective for Blu-Ray.

I bet that if HDDVD was the one on top, you wouldn't be saying those comments.

Where? From what I can tell this is you completely changing directions since HD DVD is on the way out.

For every "internet distribution = good point" you made you've made 1000 HD DVD is t3h b3s7 evar posts.

+1

Never heard of xstreamhd before Warner went Blu :rolleyes:

And why do you think they won't want it?

Here, take a look at Netflix vs Blockbuster. Netflix soared past Blockbuster with online service despite the fact that Blockbuster had a store in every neighborhood.

People were and still are to wait a day or TWO to get the movie, just so they don't have to get out of the couch and they get to watch unlimited movies for a fixed price.

With Netflix on-demand online movies, the situation is aready getting there for renting.

People will eat this up, only so far we really didn't have the infrastructure to do it so we can watch HD content.

If you notice, iTunes and their shows is making HUGE amounts of money and they continue increasing the quality of movies and shows you download. It was so successful it warranted Apple creating an Apple TV device for it. The device is being sold like hotcakes too at $300+ a pop.

Tell me, why do you think that XStreamHD technology at $399 that allows you unlimited HD movies you can buy, rent 24 hours a day at any moment? Imagine this Seagate harddrives in drive bays of the XStreamHD media center where you store all your movies you downloaded.

Add to this the ability to watch the movies you downloaded on any device in your house like PS3, HD DVD player, computer, PSP etc makes it even more appealing.

Yeah, if these guys come out with affordable monthly fees and get the recievers at <$300 over time, they'll replace these pay-per-view services.

How many people have used this whole "on-demand" stuff? Why are satellite companies not making an absolute killing on pay-per-view movies compared to rental stores and services like Netflix and Blockbuster? Consumers have already spoken with their actions. They don't want these kind of services because they're not buying them.

Don't confuse Netflix's mail service with this. It's not even remotely the same.

XStreamHD has a neat idea, but I don't think people will buy it. How about all the customers that don't have broadband internet -- what are they supposed to use? What about people who have download limits imposed by their ISPs -- what are they supposed to do? How about people that want a physical indication that they own something -- what are they supposed to do? How about people who don't want to spend $400 on an appliance to download and play movies when they can spend less on an appliance that plays movies -- what are they supposed to do?

+1

Never heard of xstreamhd before Warner went Blu :rolleyes:

As much as I vehemently disagree with Boz's stance, he has been saying downloads are the future for a while now. You two need to stop trying to incite problems.

XStreamHD has a neat idea, but I don't think people will buy it. How about all the customers that don't have broadband internet -- what are they supposed to use? What about people who have download limits imposed by their ISPs -- what are they supposed to do? How about people that want a physical indication that they own something -- what are they supposed to do? How about people who don't want to spend $400 on an appliance to download and play movies when they can spend less on an appliance that plays movies -- what are they supposed to do?

they are supposed to buy Blu-Ray. :p

As much as I vehemently disagree with Boz's stance, he has been saying downloads are the future for a while now. You two need to stop trying to incite problems.

Do you think he would have mentioned xstreamhd if Warner had gone hd dvd? I doubt it.

But I guess he will tell me otherwise :laugh:

Do you think he would have mentioned xstreamhd if Warner had gone hd dvd? I doubt it.

But I guess he will tell me otherwise :laugh:

I do. But you're obviously to blind with joy in the fact that you can rub the Warner Blu-Ray situation in his face for a while before it gets old (or gets you warned) to comprehend that.

stevan: That's my point. :)

How many people have used this whole "on-demand" stuff? Why are satellite companies not making an absolute killing on pay-per-view movies compared to rental stores and services like Netflix and Blockbuster? Consumers have already spoken with their actions. They don't want these kind of services because they're not buying them.

Don't confuse Netflix's mail service with this. It's not even remotely the same.

XStreamHD has a neat idea, but I don't think people will buy it. How about all the customers that don't have broadband internet -- what are they supposed to use? What about people who have download limits imposed by their ISPs -- what are they supposed to do? How about people that want a physical indication that they own something -- what are they supposed to do? How about people who don't want to spend $400 on an appliance to download and play movies when they can spend less on an appliance that plays movies -- what are they supposed to do?

On Demand stuff is not the same as what we are talking about here. Btw, Pay-Per-View is doing just fine it's mass adopted everywhere. People do pay them, but it's the limited choices of movies and high price per movie that has somewhat a limiting factor. Their infrastructure didn't allow proper support to consumers.

And you are right, I was never a big fan of pay-per-view as I don't actually own the movie. I'd like something like iTunes that will offer me to buy and create a digital libarary of movies in my home as opposed to paying $5-$6-$10 per movies every time I want to watch it. This business model is what has kept digital distribution from igniting.

Netflix service is the same as this in a way because you are using alternate means of getting movies. You don't own them, you have your account online and your order movies online. The only thing is that you get them to your house via mail.

Now replace this type of service with digital one. Where there's no need to wait at all. You do the same thing and start watching the movie right away. This is the reason why Netflix is opening their own ONLINE viewing module.

The problem with this though is that it will work only for SD for now if they rely on cable connection. At least not until next year when we can expect to have 40-50mbps connections as standard. In the meantime, satellite/XSteamHD type of service relies on satellite. The best idea that combines the effectiveness of Netflix approach with the ability to actually own movies as you can download them, but with no bandwith restrictions.

Again, for xStreamHD you don't need internet. It's satellite. Satellite dish and setting up is cheap today and millions and millions of people already has the infrastructure for it, courtesty of DirectTV.

Honestly, this is no different then Blu-Ray players now. If one defends that it's ok to pay $300-$400 for Blu-Ray player, I can't say that xStreamHD for $399 will be a horrible thing. Of course, it will start with early adopters first, but the beauty of mass adoption is that as more people sign up, they'll make it more appealing. There's no doubt, just like any Blu-Ray player or HD DVD player would drop in price. Don't forget, for companies like XstreamHD the main source of revenue will be monthly subscription, not the device itself.

And XStreamHD in question here, offers 3 models, you can BUY and OWN the movie (in digital form of course) and watch it ANYWHERE, renting it and I believe that you'll even have movies in theaters available through their system.

I think that in Q4 2008, I'll be getting one without a doubt. They will probably face slower adoption with studios, but it will come when they give them good money possibilities. Don't forget all these studios are horny about digital too as it allows them multiple sales of the same item for overall higher price. There's a reason why iTunes is no. 1 service.

The only reason Universal walked from them is because they wouldn't raise the price on some movies. If they did, they wouldn't have problems. But in essence it shows how much everyone likes digital. Just look at Xbox Live too.

This model is the future and is closer then we all thought.

Yes we'll all be downloading our movies eventually, but that's not in this war. By the time downloading movies becomes feasible for the majority, Blu-Ray will already have many years as the top format for buying movies in.

Common you guys, direct Tv has HD on demand movies and events that download off the internet while watching satellite Tv, gets recorded on direct Tv HD DVRS, all direct tv customers can do that. All the new direct dvr receivers since last year have an internet connection, and you can also play music and photos from your networked computers. I have my dvr full of stuff for my children, and PPV events and PPv movies that I missed.

I can record all of that to dvdrw if I want to.

I do. But you're obviously to blind with joy in the fact that you can rub the Warner Blu-Ray situation in his face for a while before it gets old (or gets you warned) to comprehend that.

stevan: That's my point. :)

I dont.

I am not rubbing anything in anyones face. My opinion is that this xtreamhd talk would have never started if things were looking good for HD DVD (as in Warner going exclusive with them).

Getting warned for speaking my mind? :laugh:

I dont.

I am not rubbing anything in anyones face. My opinion is that this xtreamhd talk would have never started if things were looking good for HD DVD (as in Warner going exclusive with them).

Getting warned for speaking my mind? :laugh:

Given that he's stated he expects online services to do well in the past, I disagree completely. Also because XStreamHD had a big presence at CES (at least in the technology community), I disagree again.

And, no, I don't think anyone should get warned for speaking their mind. I think the people who are flame baiting Boz should be warned.

@ Boz: Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree and see which format is widely adopted in the future... although it may be a few years.

And why do you think they won't want it?

Simple. Costs.

Companies can announce outrageous speed offerings for upload and downloading, but overall I have yet to see a "decent" price point for high speed. In my neck of the woods 25 dollars covers 1.5mb download and 340k upload. There is no way in hell that this download offerings are going to take off when the customer is already crippled with the packages being offered.

If the pricing scheme changes, then I don't for see a problem. According to the teleco folks I've been talking about, the infrastructure in the US is there, however the licensing and other political kinks would still need to be worked on.

HD Streaming is coming... that's a given. Nobody should even question that. We've already seen it through SD On Demand. But it's not now... and it's not even ready for the wide scale yet. The current high definition leader is now clearly Blu-ray and will continue to be until the XStream (or whatever comes out on top) is complete.

Dogan has a point however. While it is a cool and upcoming technology, it probably wouldn't have been touted as much had HD-DVD not been given dropkick it received. :laugh:

until ISP's get off their ass, upgrade their systems, remove caps and stop overselling themselves then internet based HD video has a future. I'd rather spend ?20 on a BD with a good selection of audio options, extras and the ability to copy to my psp, rather than a <50Gb download.

You people fail to see that (in US alone) broadband speeds by 2009 have been announced to be between 50-100 mbps. Satellite services like xStreadHD have proven quite possible delivering 80mbps streams that can carry full 1080p / 7.1 DTS-MA HD streams and allow you do download them to your hard drives and watch them on any DLNA device in your home (PS3, HD DVD player, computer etc)

As much as it wishes it could the US doesn't control the world and the rest of the world won't have 50-100 mbps internet connections. For about another 25 years so that this will not take off for a long time to come and it will be for the next evolution of video resolution not the 1080 that we have now.

Here in the UK for the standard of broadband is about 8 mbps and this is only achievable for the people that like within less than 1 mile of the telephone exchange after that the speed drops off extremely fast.

ADSL2+ is also many years off here and that can only achieve 24 mbps speeds.

There are still large amounts of people in the UK that can only use a 56 kbps modem to get online.

until ISP's get off their ass, upgrade their systems, remove caps and stop overselling themselves then internet based HD video has a future. I'd rather spend ?20 on a BD with a good selection of audio options, extras and the ability to copy to my psp, rather than a <50Gb download.

And yes good point gonna download a 30GB movie on your limited bandwidth of about 20GB per month.

Finish it off next month.

Edited by atkinsn2000
Dogan has a point however. While it is a cool and upcoming technology, it probably wouldn't have been touted as much had HD-DVD not been given dropkick it received. :laugh:

I doubt it. These techs and services have been in the works for a while now: MS's IPTV?

I honestly think it was a timed release for CES and with little relation to HD-DVDs facially received "dropkick". To each their own.

However I'll add a bit that I doubt has been mentioned but I've thought about before. HD as a whole will probably never take off in the manner many people think it will. As it stands we live in a mobile society where mp3's and iPods rule the day. Not full 1080p 60fps @ 120hz or 96/24 bit and 192/24 bit Hi-fi audio sources; not to mention this stuff takes up a lot of space.

If they did DVDA and SACD would have taken off years ago amongst everyday Americans who in turn decided mp3's were much more practical and Apple in a stroke of genius marketed on what the market was desiring, an iPod.

As much as it wishes it could the US doesn't control the world and the rest of the world won't have 50-100 mbps internet connections. For about another 25 years so that this will not take off for a long time to come and it will be for the next evolution of video resolution not the 1080 that we have now.

I think you have researched information very poorly.

USA is number 18 or so on the list of broadband speeds in various countries. So it's hardly leading. Meaning that other countries in Europe and Asia have much faster connections even now, going over 100mbps in japan I think.

If you think that digital distribution is 25 years away I think you are in for a HUGE surprise. It's already HERE, it just doesn't do HD. Xbox Live with over 10 million users offers TV shows and movies in 720p now. I don't hear people complaining or not downloading. It's obviously very popular.

XStreamHD like technologies offer smart approaches. The only mistake they can make is create an unfriendly digital management of the assets you download, nothing more and of course very expensive monthly subscription. I think, juding by their intentions this will not happen. They are on a very positive path to have a kick ass HD service for everyone.

Links:

http://www.internetinnovation.org/tabid/56.../7/Default.aspx

Japan had 100 mbps capability in 2005:

http://www.physorg.com/news7068.html

US broadband trailing other countries:

http://blogs.computerworld.com/node/6500

Edited by Boz

Physical media has a long way to go still.

Hell I can't even stream HD movies internally in my house without hiccups/slowdowns (damn wireless).

The best internet speed I can get currently is 2-3MB (on 8MB DSL MAX).

Download limits would suffer under these proposals as well, and the UK loves download limits/"fair use" policies.

another note to add, a lot of people, like myself, like to have a physical collection, I like having a large movie shelf. If a wanna go to a mates and watch a movie I own, all I gotta do is pick it up and go.

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ZimaBoard 2 AppData ZimaOS comes with an App Store that includes a repository of almost 400 apps, so you will be able to find most of what you'll need for a NAS (although after a quick search, I wasn't able to find a Surveillance Manager), and now comes the important part: moving the default AppData location off the 45GB eMMC and onto a larger volume: Open Settings Then Apps Then, in the Select a new location field, click on the new Storage volume you want to move it to (in my case, the Apps Storage Pool), which is the SSD RAID mirror. Confirm the Migration warning Be praised! You can also do this for Docker (which by default installs onto the 45GB eMMC flash drive) and the User database. Plex Setup Next, I tested the configuration by installing the Plex Server app from the App Store. The library folders must already exist (which I placed into the Storage Pool). Plex Server setup is straightforward and requires very little configuration. In my case, all I had to do was add the media path I just created, which you can also browse to using the folder icon in the path field. In addition, you can now map the new Media library in Windows Explorer using the Zima Client. Oddly enough, it is not possible to access the ZimaBoard 2 over the Network Neighborhood; you must map drives using the client, which is shown in the last image in the above gallery. I watched one of my Blu-Ray rips, which is Dolby Vision with Dolby Atmos, and the content played fine with no stuttering or buffering, which is what anyone needs in this scenario. ZimaBoard 2 Zima Client mobile app There's also a client for mobile. It is pretty barebones, as shown in the above gallery, for example, the Apps screen launches the WebUI for that app, and the Backup must be done manually. On opening Backup, you can select internal storage folders on your phone to backup to the ZimaBoard 2's storage, and although this is constantly scanned, the backup action itself must be manually triggered. There is an option to allow foreground backup (last image in the above gallery), but this basically means the queued backup gets triggered when you manually open the app. Benchmarking SATA PCIe 3.0 X4 A CrystalDiskMark test on a mapped network drive from within a Windows 11 25H2 PC (image above) connected over a 2.5 GbE was well within acceptable ranges. Writes were generally better on the SSD RAID mirror. SATA PCIe 3.0 X1 I also ran the NAS Performance tester, which tests the link speed performance. As you can see, it pretty much maxes out the 2.5GbE connection. Of course, you can also opt to bond the two 2.5 GbE connections for a bit more umph, but I didn't do that. Thermals Top PCIe card SATA HDDs Next, I measured some hotspots while playing content on Plex. It's fair to say this will perform better than a NAS that is enclosed in a metal or plastic case, as almost everything storage-wise is exposed! Anyway, the ZimaBoard 2 did not break a sweat with Plex streaming or disk benchmarks. ZimaOS Factory Reset ZimaOS does not include a factory reset option. Instead, you have to download the ZimaOS image and flash it to the eMMC manually. The flashing process is shown in the above gallery. The steps to do so are listed below: Download the ZimaOS image here; Open BalenaEtcher (Run as Administrator) and select the image; Select your inserted USB drive (min 8 GB) Flash to it; Connect your USB drive, monitor, keyboard, USB hub (optional), mouse (optional), and network cable (recommended) to the ZimaBoard 2; Connect power and press F11 continuously; Select your USB drive starting with UEFI in the boot device menu; Press Enter on the Install ZimaOS option; Select /dev/mmcblk0 (MMC) flash drive as target; Confirm with (three times) to wipe the target disk; Wait a couple of minutes while ZimaOS installs; Remove the USB drive and confirm with a reboot; Your ZimaBoard 2 has been factory reset. However, you don't have to stick with ZimaOS, in fact the company also offers official CasaOS images, that are based on Debian; or as they say themselves, put anything you want on this "hackable single board server" it's up to you. Conclusion I had a lot of fun putting this together. I've custom-built all my own PCs and servers since the 90s, and this is the first time I have had to put a NAS together. Even if the actual base ZimaBoard 2 was already a completed build, it still feels pretty custom. I just wish that IceWhale Technology included a getting-started guide in the box for the Start Kit, which would have really completed this kit. Instead, I had to search for the official video on the YouTube channel to make sure I wasn't doing anything wrong. So who is this for? Definitely the hobbyist who is comfortable building their own PC and servers. It also has a much smaller footprint than its nearest equivalent (in terms of specs), like the Beelink Me Pro, which is another NAS I will be testing soon. Although the Beelink does not come with the PCIe 3.0 X4 expansion, the ZimaBoard 2 Starter Kit suddenly looks to be a great bargain, even if it only offers the two 3.5-inch bays over the four in the other example. It makes a lot of sense to use Intel's N150 chip inside a NAS; it is more than capable of doing what the ZimaBoard 2 is intended for, media streaming and backup. It also looks like the IceWhale Technology staff are quite active in the official forums helping people with issues they come across with ZimaOS and the devices, peer support seems to be good as well, I was quickly able to find why I was not able to create a new Storage Pool in ZimaOS v1.6.1 even though that is quite a serious bug, hopefully it will be fixed in the next update. If you are comfortable with the command line and Docker, you'll be fine. You can do great things with this hardware. This was my first time with ZimaOS. It seems a bit barebones in comparison to the likes of Synology DSM, TOS, and UGOS, but it has a ton of apps to get you started with your home or small business NAS. Where to buy As of publishing, IceWhale Technology is running a discount of up to 5% for the Starter Kit. If you opt to get just the ZimaBoard 2 itself, it does come with a SATA Y-Cable, so you will be able to connect up to two 3.5-inch HDDs to it. ZimaBoard 2 1668 Starter Kit for $534.50 on Amazon US (was $548.60) ZimaBoard 2 832 Starter Kit for $372.88 on Amazon US (was $390.60) Zimaboard 2 1668 (16GB+64GB) for $419.90 on Amazon US Zimaboard 2 832 (8GB+32GB) for $359.90 on Amazon Disclosure: IceWhale Technology provided a free sample without any editorial input or review pre-approval. Good to know The Amazon link is U.S. specific, and not available in other regions unless specified. We only use first-party seller links (at the time of article publishing); ensure that you purchase from a first-party seller link only. Check out Today's Deals on Amazon | or our recent tech deals. 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    • It's in the Insider's group so yes it's technically beta, though these days it's hard to see much of a difference unless you opt for the most extreme beta builds, which I don't. When I moved here from the Release Preview channel I did so primarily because I wanted to see how well the restored taskbar functionality (restored from Win10, and earlier) is working and whether it was time to finally abandon SAB--and it is--working fine, so far. Not as polished as SAB, but it'll do for me.
    • I've been using MWB Premium for a number of years so that along with Windows updates and updated browser should be fine. Thanks for that.
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