The Great UAC Debate!

[+allan MVC]

Brandon, I may not always agree with you - but I sure like your style :D

[mrk Reviews]

UAC is fine for most, I used UAC Tweak to put it into quiet mode but even still it stopped Speedfan from displayig my HDD temps and SMART status as I use Speedfan to monitor them on a daily basis.

I've had UAC off since Vista came out last year and have had zero problems. Then again why should I have problems? why should my machine suddenly become exposed to these "hackers" and "vulnerabilities" when before Vista I was running XP pro for years in exactly the same manner without a single security incident?

I think some people are using UAC = Ultimate protection 24/7 as a scaremongering tactic. Sure it will teach developers to be better at making their apps but there's more opensource and freeware apps out there that more people use than paid for apps, these guys make such software in their spare time for the good of their target communities.

We know the apps do good and it's frustrating when it doesn't work as intended due to UAC not allowing it to function correctly (my example is speedfan, UAC doesn't even prompt to elevate for instance which is a bit crap).

As a power user, turning off UAC isn't going to make the security of my OS any less secure due to the fact that we (people like myself) already have 3rd party apps doing the protection and we know when something is wrong.

[ozgeek]

mrk, I believe you need to run Speedfan as an administrator (right-click on Speedfan.exe and click run as admin).

I do agree with you though that UAC is needless. It's gone over. I did a format and reinstall after a year of running Vista with UAC off. I reinstalled not because of any problems because of UAC being disabled. It's because I have been installing too much junk. A software tester, I am.

Now, I have not bothered to turn off UAC yet but I am being forced to and will do very soon. There are programs that just don't work with UAC in the way. One being NFS HS. It crashes to the desktop when I try to start it. Some game mods (like the 3rd person view mod in HaloPC won't even work under UAC but did before I reinstalled Windows.

[burnee]

Got my new computer with Vista today, Turned it off after like 3 hours of use as I found no need for it :s.

[Mordkanin]

Got my new computer with Vista today, Turned it off after like 3 hours of use as I found no need for it :s.

Then I suggest educating yourself on the need for it by reading parts of this thread.

[+allan MVC]

Then I suggest educating yourself on the need for it by reading parts of this thread.

With all due respect, your opinion is only one side of the debate - are you suggesting that anyone who doesn't agree with your position needs further eductaion? It's his system - if he want's UAC disabled that's absolutely fine.

[burnee]

Then I suggest educating yourself on the need for it by reading parts of this thread.

I have read the first few pages of this thread, I still find no need for it.

[rtk]

Hence the need to remove the option of disabling it.

[simmorya]

I use UAC because id rather be safer than sorry. It was annoying to begin with but now its no problem at all.

[Ayepecks]

If you want an off/on option for every function of the OS, build your own. If you aren't happy with the configuration options available in Windows, there are several feedback channels available to you. If that's not good enough, don't buy it. Use something else. If there isn't something that suits your needs, tough luck.

I'm sorry Brandon, but if you guys at Microsoft really think that way, I think a lot of users are going to heed your advice... because, from my experience with OS X and Linux, they have nothing as insanely annoying as UAC. :)

[ozgeek]

I believed they allow you to disable UAC because UAC is a new technology and having it permanently enabled would have dire consequences with old or incomputable software. They should really leave the option to disable or enable UAC to our decision.

[Denis W. Veteran]

Okay, another UAC annoyance that I hope can be eventually ironed out:

Now I see why I prefer to install game demos on XP and then switch over to Vista to play them. Right now I'm trying to run 3DMark2006's installer on Vista and it's taking anywhere from 2 to 3 minutes just for Vista to verify the file's integrity before popping up the UAC dialog. Can't imagine how bad it would be to launch said installer over a wireless network - it'll probably take 5 minutes just to verify the file.

Good thing developers are moving to bundling installers into an archive and including a small .EXE file, but that still leaves those installers who rely on InstallShield SFXes. In the meanwhile, something like a shell dialog reading "Verify the file, please wait..." similar to the File Attributes Change dialog would be nice so users won't accidentally launch the file twice thinking the first attempt failed.

[stockwiz]

I have it on, but might turn it off because of that damn windows defender popup about startup programs not being started.

[Randall_Lind]

UAC enable: Quicken can't find Internet connection. Most other programs crash upon install or when I try to use them. Disable UAC everything works.

Let say I never used a PC. I go out and buy a new machine. All my program crashes because MS says I have no rights to run them. I can see this turning new users off to the PC.

[Brandon Live Veteran]

UAC enable: Quicken can't find Internet connection. Most other programs crash upon install or when I try to use them. Disable UAC everything works.

Let say I never used a PC. I go out and buy a new machine. All my program crashes because MS says I have no rights to run them. I can see this turning new users off to the PC.

That's not how UAC works. It doesn't affect whether an application can access the internet. You obviously had some other compatibility or configuration problem with your version of Quicken.

Apps aren't going to crash because UAC is enabled. If there's a particular app that doesn't request elevation and doesn't have an app compat flag set for it, then you can right-click and click "Run As Administrator" and now it's running exactly as if UAC had been disabled. If that's really necessary for your old version of Quicken (though I doubt that it is), you can check the "Always run with Administrator privileges" box in the app or shortcut properties page.

I'm sorry Brandon, but if you guys at Microsoft really think that way, I think a lot of users are going to heed your advice... because, from my experience with OS X and Linux, they have nothing as insanely annoying as UAC. :)

Won't happen.

If users (and I mean a statistically significant number, not Neowin members) wanted those options, we'd build them. We don't build them becuause nobody wants them, and there are better things to be building that people do want. Perhaps you misread my statement?

[KevinN206]

I have it on, but might turn it off because of that damn windows defender popup about startup programs not being started.

There is a workaround for this problem.

0. Disable the program's built-in autostart up with Windows mechanism (use msconfig to see if the program requires parameters or switches). Take note of those if needed. We'll use the Task Scheduler instead.

1. Type in the search box for "Task Scheduler". A UAC prompt will appear.

2. Create a new task

3. Put a check mark on "Run with highest privileges"

4. Under the "Action" tab, select the program you want to run at start up.

Your programs can now run with admin privileges without Windows Defender blocking at logon and startup. Let us know if this works. I use this for RM CPU Clock Utility from getting blocked at every startup on my laptop.

I actually have Windows Defender disabled and use SpywareTerminator with HIPS instead.

[tsupersonic]

UAC and all other variations of it on other operating systems for the loss! (if you are an advanced computer user).

It may help people who don't know what they're doing, but it's just an annoyance for me. I also hate how UAC is seen like a bad thing, but many other OS's implement a similar system, yet people don't gripe about those.

Common sense if you have it is more effective than UAC (or any type of UAC on other OS's) will ever be.

[KevinN206]

I have UAC enabled simply because it's NOT an annoyance once all your software are installed initially. I know exactly when UAC should and should not prompt. The shields on icons are clues. If it prompts without reason (i.e. without me explicitly performing a task that requires an elevation), then something is not right.

I don't blindly click on ALLOW for everything. Common sense also tells drivers AND passengers to wear seatbelt.

Edited February 6, 2008 by KevinN206

[KevinN206]

There is a workaround for this problem.

0. Disable the program's built-in autostart up with Windows mechanism (use msconfig to see if the program requires parameters or switches). Take note of those if needed. We'll use the Task Scheduler instead.

1. Type in the search box for "Task Scheduler". A UAC prompt will appear.

2. Create a new task

3. Put a check mark on "Run with highest privileges"

4. Under the "Action" tab, select the program you want to run at start up.

Your programs can now run with admin privileges without Windows Defender blocking at logon and startup. Let us know if this works. I use this for RM CPU Clock Utility from getting blocked at every startup on my laptop.

I actually have Windows Defender disabled and use SpywareTerminator with HIPS instead.

You may have to uncheck the Power section under "Conditions" tab for laptop users. Otherwise, it won't run unless using AC.

[dvb2000]

I'm sorry Brandon, but if you guys at Microsoft really think that way, I think a lot of users are going to heed your advice... because, from my experience with OS X and Linux, they have nothing as insanely annoying as UAC. :)

Don't worry about Brandon. He has no clue about security or what people want, I don't think he has any sort of position in Microsoft where he has any influence whatsoever.

I note with interest Vista SP1 actually removes some UAC prompts (at least thats a START!)

[Brandon Live Veteran]

I give you a 1 on the troll-o-meter. Better luck next time, though.

[GNRambo]

I tried Tweak UAC and i put it in silent mode. But i always get a popup saying that UAC is disabled.

Is that supposed to happen?

[Wilhelmus]

I tried Tweak UAC and i put it in silent mode. But i always get a popup saying that UAC is disabled.

Is that supposed to happen?

Yes. But you can silence it:

Change The Way Security Center Alerts You.

[Wommers]

my only beef with UAC is as follows, in easy pictorials >>>

[KevinN206]

my only beef with UAC is as follows, in easy pictorials >>>

I have already shown how to workaround that on Page 8, Post # 119 using Task Scheduler. Once setup properly, Windows *should not* block these programs at logon and startup.