Net users face web ban for illegal downloads

[Kushan]

Wrong analogy. Linux is not an exact replica of a Microsoft OS. Pirating software and entertainment is essentially identical to the stuff being sold in stores.

Linux, in some cases, tries to be a replica. It's not exact, but neither is a lossy-MP3 when compared to CD audio, but that still doesn't stop people.

Piracy has been a part of the music industry since long before most of us were born. Bootleg tapes were the norm and everyone did it. Even today, it's perfectly normal for friends to swap CD's and send songs via their phones or whatever. But the end result is often an additional sale for the artist if it's worth it. The record companies are scared because now they're no longer needed. It's perfectly possible for artists to sell their own music on the likes of itunes, using their myspace to gather new fans and the record labels get none of this.

That's business, that's how it works. Times change, practices change, new technology changes everything, it's up to the businesses to keep up, not the consumer. If they're not willing to accept that people don't want more restrictions, that people don't want to pay excessive amounts, then they deserve to get buried like the relics they are.

[dysmatik]

this is getting all too 1984

[Lt-DavidW]

Adapt to what...giving away their stuff for free?? I hate all this BS kids seem to have learned to say everytime copryight comes up "oh businesses need to adapt to new business models". What kind of business model can work against FREE STUFF? How can a company compete with a movie or a song which costs nothing...???

Music labels used to act as intermediaries between the artist and customer. The internet has cut out the middleman and so now the music labels are losing money. We no longer need them to produce physical albums thanks to downloads and we no longer need them to do the artists' marketing thanks to social networking. The truth is that, quite simply - we no longer need them. New technology has made record companies all but obsolete.

This is why the record companies are investing so much time and money into anti-piracy campaigns - they're not going down without a fight! They claim that it is "stifling innovation" and "threatening creativity", but we've already seen that artists can be successful without them: Radiohead, Arctic Monkeys, Lily Allen, Gnarls Barkley, Mika, Gnarls Barkley, and Maximo Park to name a few...

[+Nik Louch Subscriber²]

I just don't see this ever being implemented!

[7Dash8]

Same old tired replies... you'd think after all this time and with a bit of practice you piracy advocates would come up with better material to convince yourselves and everyone else that what you're doing is more than just freeloading pure and simple.

Adding better quality and making yourself want to buy the product. You buy a CD or DVD not jsut to hear it, its a little box of memmories. What im trying to tell you is that people dont jsut buy CD?s or DVD?s for the music in it, its a special piece of something concrete that you want to give or have cause you really like it.

Ah right, so if CDs and DVDs have magic bells and whistles, maybe a hint of calvin kleins obsession for men, and an extra nice thank you card from the artist with your name on it, you'll consider buying them?

How about the argument that if they make better quality movies and songs, people would go out and buy . them ...did anyone raise that? I love that one, because we all know that the good stuff doesn't get pirated much more than the bad stuff, right:rolleyes:s:

How about this one.. piracy only hurts the greedy artists and bad companies, it actually *helps* the good artists and the good companies. So in a way people pirating stuff are actually helping build a better world!! I think one of you brought that one up before. that's another one of my favorites. I like that one because it involves a very special suspension of disbelief that only small children have and tend to grow out of after grade 2, bless their little hearts.

Here's the deal: if you pay zero for something, then the most anyone can get from it is...you guessed it, zero! Free word of mouth, great advertising, all that stuff is useless because it translates to lots of lots more zero dollars! So the artist will be feeding themselves with what, your good wishes?

..then people have the hide to sit here and bitch and moan about how theyre having their freedoms taken away by big bad RIAA and the eveil internet nazis, when all the while theyre making out like a three armed bandit. Yeah, its amazing, but companies big and small don't like seeing their stuff given away for free on torrents, and they sure as hell have more political clout than the average internet whiners. Maybe we should get Anonymous working on this, because from what i hear "they are legion"!!:laugh:h:

[Tews]

I wonder how this would affect things like....VoIP (mistakes happen with "suspicious" packets), legal movie downloading through something like Netflix, etc.

In my opinion, this would be rather stupid on the part of ISPs, but I can understand why the proposal was made. Just as others have said, the idea of constant monitoring is rather invasive.

Whatever happened to the Land of the Free? Oh, right... That only referred to the point in history where the US asked for its independence from Britain and got it. :/

Despite living in the US, I hate the place (and not just because of Bush). I think I'll be leaving the country when I'm older...

Better wait till you are old enough to get a job Sonny! Dont let the door hit you in the a** on the way out k?

[CelticWhisper]

Same old tired replies... you'd think after all this time and with a bit of practice you piracy advocates would come up with better material to convince yourselves and everyone else that what you're doing is more than just freeloading pure and simple.

Oh, I don't doubt that it's freeloading. In my case, at least, it's just that I don't care. I buy from independents because I personally think it's usually a good value for my money, and because they don't sue. Pirating from major labels is, to me, a form of petty, spiteful, vindictive revenge that I rather enjoy. They made me angry when they started the lawsuits so I consider piracy a way of getting back at them. Given sufficient privacy-enhancing technology, there's nothing they can do about it.

I think the same about boycotting them which, truth be told, I do far more than piracy. For all my bravado about it, I don't think I've downloaded anything from a major label for years, but I absolutely condone, support, endorse, and encourage it. Anything to make the big record companies lose money is okay by me.

Ah right, so if CDs and DVDs have magic bells and whistles, maybe a hint of calvin kleins obsession for men, and an extra nice thank you card from the artist with your name on it, you'll consider buying them?

All I require in order to buy a CD is two things:

1. No DRM in any way, shape, or form.

2. The disc is NOT published by a major record label, and will in no way support the business of major record labels.

How about the argument that if they make better quality movies and songs, people would go out and buy . them ...did anyone raise that? I love that one, because we all know that the good stuff doesn't get pirated much more than the bad stuff, right? :rolleyes:

Quality is only half the battle. It has to be worth the asking price to be considered a good value. I am a huge fan of David Lynch - I think his movies are brilliant and I'm missing only Blue Velvet and Dune to complete my DVD collection (well, Lost Highway too, but that hasn't seen a proper DVD release yet that has BOTH widescreen and 5.1 sound). If, say, a complete Lynch anthology, including all his films in HD, with bonuses, never-before-seen stuff, the works, were to be sold for $800, I wouldn't buy it. Much as I like him, it's not worth that price. If it were sold for, say $200-300, it would seem much more appealing.

Luckily DVDs are usually priced fairly. I spotted Blue Velvet in a bookstore for about $15. Didn't buy since I was on a mission to track down a book and it didn't really register that "Hey, Lynch movies cheap here!" I now know, though, where to get the film for a price I can justify.

CDs, on the other hand, have historically not been as justifiable price-wise. At least not the mainstream/popular stuff (which is, surprise surprise, released by the member companies of the RIAA). Paying $20 for 80 minutes (max) of audible entertainment, even if it might qualify as "aural sex," (hrr hrr hrr) is not justifiable. The companies got the message a couple years ago and started dropping prices. However, by then there was so much hatred toward them over the RIAA lawsuits that people didn't want to buy anyway. Also, those "NEW! Now CHEAPER!" CDs were frequently infected with DRM.

The companies seem to be trading one screw-up for another. People have said what they want. Fair prices, drop the lawsuits, drop the DRM, stop manufacturing throwaway music for albums with one hit and 55 minutes of filler. For some reason, the idiots at the record companies can't or won't do it.

How about this one.. piracy only hurts the greedy artists and bad companies, it actually *helps* the good artists and the good companies. So in a way people pirating stuff are actually helping build a better world!! I think one of you brought that one up before.

I did, but you misquoted me. I didn't say piracy of the little guys helps the little guys. I said piracy of the big guys has probably a negligible immediate effect on the little guys and arguably some long-term benefits, and BUYING FROM the little guys helps the little guys. I BUY independent music. I used to PIRATE mainstream music, but I have since stopped listening to mainstream music as my interests have shifted.

that's another one of my favorites. I like that one because it involves a very special suspension of disbelief that only small children have and tend to grow out of after grade 2, bless their little hearts.

Care to explain what that suspension of disbelief actually is, or would you rather keep making veiled ad-hominems? I can play the ad-hominem game too, but I'm going to win it.

Here's the deal: if you pay zero for something, then the most anyone can get from it is...you guessed it, zero! Free word of mouth, great advertising, all that stuff is useless because it translates to lots of lots more zero dollars! So the artist will be feeding themselves with what, your good wishes?

You're assuming. Stop that.

As I already explained, I BUY from the independents. Sure, I'll download a band I've never heard of before to see if they're good, but I can say with 100% certainty that I have a perfect track record of buying every album I consider good enough to listen to. I have the record store receipts to prove it, want to see them? Or shall I take a picture of myself holding the CD cases?

My favourite band, Therion, is one I never would've heard of were it not for piracy. I downloaded their "Sirius B" album and was absolutely blown away. I now have their entire post-1994 discography (some 7-8 albums, many of them 2-disc sets) as well as their commemorative DVD set. Piracy of one album has gained them not only a sale of that very same album, but 7 more and a DVD. At ~$13.99 per album (more for the 2-discers, which are worth it to me) and $40 for the DVDs, that's pushing $200 they wouldn't have had otherwise. And I'm one customer. Uno.

So they'll be feeding themselves with at least $200 worth of...well, whatever Swedish metalheads like to eat. I hear tropical pizzas are popular among Chicago metalheads, but hey, when you're an ocean away...

..then people have the hide to sit here and bitch and moan about how theyre having their freedoms taken away by big bad RIAA and the eveil internet nazis, when all the while theyre making out like a three armed bandit.

And the record companies haven't been doing the same for decades? It's humorous how many of your arguments about users and their treatment of record companies can be applied to the record companies and their treatment of the musicians.

Yeah, its amazing, but companies big and small don't like seeing their stuff given away for free on torrents, and they sure as hell have more political clout than the average internet whiners.

You say they have political clout like it's a good thing. It doesn't worry you at all that companies can buy laws to benefit them at the expense of the freedom of the people?

Edited February 14, 2008 by CelticWhisper

[7Dash8]

I'll only address your last point because again the rest of what you've written is a mixture of self gratification and self justification. Your the one whos assuming all sorts of things, like the fact that independent companies will remain small, just to make you feel good about sticking it to the man. You do realise independents would just as soon grow bigger if they could don't you? You do realise in a capitalist society that companies all start out small and get big, they don't spawn out of a giant nazi corporation-building machine, right?

You say they have political clout like it's a good thing. It doesn't worry you at all that companies can buy laws to benefit them at the expense of the freedom of the people?

I have only one thing to say: you reap what you sow. If people like you keep taking things just because you can and then pick and choose who you pay, don't be surprised if the people you don't like take steps to stop guys like you. Newsflash... there is no revolution. This isnt a fight of good vs evil. These are just companies trying to sell things as they have for hundreds of years. They're run by people just like you or me. They want to earn more bucks just like you or me. They have shareholders made up of people like you or me. Artists aren't forced to sign up with these companies iff they don't want to so its not like thse evil companies are dominating the world by force.

I am so over this whole evil corporations thing which fifteen year olds seem to have picked up from watching too many movies. When you grow up and go out into the real world you'l see there's no conspiracy and the only thing youre fighting for is how much stuff you can mooch off the net to satisfy your greed.

[CelticWhisper]

I'll only address your last point because again the rest of what you've written is a mixture of self gratification and self justification. Your the one whos assuming all sorts of things, like the fact that independent companies will remain small, just to make you feel good about sticking it to the man. You do realise independents would just as soon grow bigger if they could don't you? You do realise in a capitalist society that companies all start out small and get big, they don't spawn out of a giant nazi corporation-building machine, right?

In the event that they get big, I'll keep buying from them. In the event that they get big and arrogant and start suing, DRMing, and otherwise acting like the asshats the RIAA has been, they then fall right squarely in the sights of my piracy/boycott crosshairs.

I don't hate the big record companies because they're big and make a lot of money. I hate them because they think they're above the law and expect to walk all over people without repercussions.

I have only one thing to say: you reap what you sow.

Exactly. The record labels are now reaping all the ill will and resentment they've sown with their lawsuits, payola, marketing overexposure, overpriced CDs, and DRM infections (like XCP).

If people like you keep taking things just because you can and then pick and choose who you pay, don't be surprised if the people you don't like take steps to stop guys like you.

If people like the record company execs keep taking money from musicians just because they can and pick and choose who they give fair contracts...

See? Works both ways.

As for taking steps to stop guys like me, they've already tried. It worked so unbelievably well! There's no piracy anywhere on the internet anymore! Oh, wait...

Newsflash... there is no revolution. This isnt a fight of good vs evil.

Didn't say there was a fight of good vs. evil. Without risking this merging with the official religion thread, good and evil don't even exist as absolutes.

As for a revolution...don't be so sure. Socially there isn't much of one. Certainly nothing to conjure up the feelings surrounding the French Revolution or the American Revolution. However, the way people consume media is certainly being revolutionized. The previous system of distribution is going away as it is not needed anymore. Record companies have found themselves made irrelevant by the Internet and if they want to continue to do business they have to find a way to stay relevant. How? That's the part that isn't my problem. I'm not responsible for their business plans.

These are just companies trying to sell things as they have for hundreds of years. They're run by people just like you or me. They want to earn more bucks just like you or me. They have shareholders made up of people like you or me.

And either at the behest (or perhaps ignorance) of those shareholders, they're using dishonest, underhanded, monopolistic tactics to earn those more bucks.

The fact that they're just like you or me makes no difference, unless you want to argue that they (or you or me) are sociopaths whose abject lack of ethics allows them to go to greater lengths to get money.

But then you could say the same about me and my willingness to pirate without shame. So then it's unethical force 1 versus unethical force 2. In that case, most resources wins. ...Internet's a pretty big resource, huh?

Artists aren't forced to sign up with these companies iff they don't want to so its not like thse evil companies are dominating the world by force.

There I would disagree with you. There is no law forcing musicians to sign with them, that is true. However, the social pressure to live the rockstar lifestyle is catered to by the large record companies, and when some sales-weasel comes around with a contract and a pre-made check with LOTS of zeroes, talking the sweet talk about sex, drugs, rock-n-roll, money for nothing and your chicks for free, it's hard to say "no." I wouldn't even have a problem with it were it not for the next part, where the musician signs a fine-print-laden screw-job of a contract and gets nickel-and-dimed out of all his profits and actually winds up owing the record company tens of thousands of dollars.

I am so over this whole evil corporations thing which fifteen year olds seem to have picked up from watching too many movies. When you grow up and go out into the real world you'l see there's no conspiracy and the only thing youre fighting for is how much stuff you can mooch off the net to satisfy your greed.

Hi, my name's Bob, I work full-time in an IT job and go to school full-time for a degree in network security. I live in the real world already. I don't believe in conspiracies, but I do believe in running a business fairly and respectably, and that's something the record companies ARE NOT DOING. As I said before, "evil" is a subjective concept, but these corporations sure as hell are acting like scum and were I involved in making music, I would not want to do business with them.

Oh, and I'm sorry but did you miss the part where I said I BUY THE GODDAMN CDS from the independent bands I listen to, whose record labels do operate fairly and respectably?

[.Kompressor]

democracy who? where? it's just a state of mind folks.