Reuters: Toshiba to exit HD DVD, end format war

[randomnut]

TOKYO (Reuters) - Toshiba Corp is planning to stop production of equipment compatible with the HD DVD format for high-definition video, allowing the competing Blu-Ray camp a free run, public broadcaster NHK reported on Saturday.

Toshiba is expected to suffer losses amounting to tens of billions of yen (hundreds of millions of dollars) to scrap production of HD DVD players and recorders and other steps to exit the business, Japan's NHK said on its website.

No one at Toshiba could be reached for comment.

The format war between the Toshiba-backed HD DVD and Sony Corp's Blu-Ray, often compared to the Betamax-VHS battle in the 1980s, has slowed the development of what is expected to be a multibillion dollar high-definition DVD industry.

Toshiba was dealt a blow on Friday when Wal-Mart Stores Inc said it would abandon the HD DVD format, becoming the latest in a series of top retailers and movie studios to rally behind Blu-ray technology for high definition DVDs.

Toshiba plans to continue selling HD DVD equipment at stores for the time being but will not put resources into developing new devices, NHK said.

I think we knew this was coming :( At least we have a winner.

Reuters

[+Elі Subscriber²]

WOW! now that's the last nail in the coffin, I really wanted HD-DVD to win, but now however I think it's time to go out and buy a player finally, glad I waited a few more months, I was almost about to buy an HD-DVD player in December.

[Boeing 787]

Their fatal mistake was not releasing a HD-DVD burner for the computer at a low price.

[StandingInAlley]

While i am a supporter of HD-DVD and didn't like Blu-ray at all,

I am happy that this war has finally ended and consumers like me can finally go ahead and plan a bit for the future. I was near in buying an HD-DVD addon but now i am glad i didn't pick one. Its really sad seeing all this happen and we can only hope that in the near future newer features continue being a part of Blu-ray and prices fall down.

[Cormier6083]

Well that is the end of that.

[Dogan]

Finally.

[MGS4-SS]

Think of all the money wasted on pushing HDDVD, dang.

[vipwoody]

What about Microsoft, which is behind the HD-DVD? mmm thats a total loss...

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Think of all the money wasted on pushing HDDVD, dang.

That would of have happened to one of them anyway to an extent.

It's just HD DVD has nothing to fall back on, it will die out completely now.

If Blu Ray had been on the losing end, it would still of been used for PS3 games.

[iconboy]

holy crap! just like that its over! Toshiba must feel like how Sony felt all those years ago with betamax, lol. maybe 15 years from now we will find hd dvds in people's basements hooked up to old tvs with a small collection of movies to remind us of what could have been.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

What about Microsoft, which is behind the HD-DVD? mmm thats a total loss...

They never fully committed, which if you ask me, IS one of the main reasons HD DVD is actually dead...

Oh how an integrated HD DVD player would of probably changed the tides (external was too expensive, and a lot of people prefer things all in one).

[spenser.d]

What about Microsoft, which is behind the HD-DVD? mmm thats a total loss...

How, may I ask, is it a total loss for MS? They weren't behind HDDVD, they only supported that format over Bluray, but any amount of money that they put in to HDDVD that they haven't made back is probably negligible. It's no beef to them to switch to Bluray.

@Audioboxer, yeah, it may have changed the tides for the format war, but they made the 360 to compete in the videogame industry, not the movie industry. And they've done a damn good job at the former, quite a lot of which is due to the fact that they kept an HDDVD player optional, and thus not jacking the price up.

-Spenser

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

How, may I ask, is it a total loss for MS? They weren't behind HDDVD, they only supported that format over Bluray, but any amount of money that they put in to HDDVD that they haven't made back is probably negligible. It's no beef to them to switch to Bluray.

-Spenser

You are right, but it's a lost opportunity.

MS should of fully backed HD DVD at least for the pros it would've caused in hampering Sony's plans.

They are rivals you know... and on the profiling/pricing side, HD DVD was argubaly better.

but they made the 360 to compete in the videogame industry, not the movie industry

That is true, but they took the steps to release an HD DVD addon, and back it somewhat. I just don't understand why their backing of it was half-assed for the reasons above, and the problems it would've caused Sony if they had put more effort in.

Although there are a lot of "conspiracy" theories on the net that they didn't back HD DVD fully as they want to push their download service for movies. Which is fair enough, but realistically that isn't going to overtake physical media anytime soon, and IMO as I've said they dropped the ball on the HD DVD potentials in relation to the console war.

Edited February 16, 2008 by Audioboxer

[spenser.d]

They are rivals you know...

Wrong (sort of). They are only rivals in the videogame industry, not elsewhere. They actually do cooperate in a lot of other areas just fine. MS had no reason to go into competition with them in the movie industry - that's not their gig.

-Spenser

[DrCheese]

MS have lost quite a bit to be honest, its HDI would have given them millions in licensing over the years. The fuss over HDI/BDJ was one of the major reasons for the format war in the first place.

Still, MS managed to get its VC-1 Codec into the standards for both formats, so they still stand to make a fair amount on Blu-ray.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Wrong (sort of). They are only rivals in the videogame industry, not elsewhere. They actually do cooperate in a lot of other areas just fine. MS had no reason to go into competition with them in the movie industry - that's not their gig.

-Spenser

It wouldn't be MS vs Sony in the movie industry, it would be Toshiba vs Sony still.

All MS have to do is back HD DVD and release an integrated player, then shut up shop - Maybe on their 360 adverts say they fully support HD DVD, and that it's a great benefit in buying a 360.

Hardly much effort required from them at all. All they're doing is embracing a piece of hardware in their console, not taking on all the strains and marketing involved at the top level - Which Toshiba are in charge of.

They are only rivals in the videogame industry

Which while true, you are still missing the point of the potential of backing HD DVD in the gaming industry. People are buying PS3's due to Blu Ray, people would of been buying 360's due to HD DVD if it were different.

What does that mean? More sales for the gaming sector in MS, and if HD DVD were winning today and the 360 backed it fully, boy would Sony and the PS3 be in a tough position.

Now? MS are probably starting to "sweat" a little, with the ground the PS3 could gain this year due to software and Blu Ray.

[Smigit]

Their fatal mistake was not releasing a HD-DVD burner for the computer at a low price.

I'd say their biggest mistake was not having the format done earlier and offering MS subsidised drives to use in the XBox 360 to spread the format but prevent the 360's cost shifting too much. Really, say what you will about the PS3 but I do think it ultimately payed off for Sony at least in relation to this format war (whether pushing the format and the added cost hurt them in the console sector or not is another matter). Had the 360 had a drive in it, they would have had a 10 million unit head start. Whether they ever intended to get any hardware into the console I can't say, but had they done so without hurting the consoles cost then I think HD-DVD would have won.

As for this being a big blow for MS. I can't see how. I don't really see what they did to support the format besides put their name next to it and offer the drive as an addon for the 360. Besides that any following was quite minimal at best and their importance in all this probably over exagerated.

Anyway HD-DVD didn't even seem that attractive here in Australia. The drives (excluding the xbox one) were never much more than $100AU cheaper than the BlueRay ones (which isnt a huge amount when the HD-DVD drives cost themselves $500) when I saw them and about par with a PS3 at times not to mention their store presence was a bit touch and go. I realise Australia is a small market, but I'm sure the HD-DVD group did themselves no favors by failing to match the prices of HD-DVD drives in the US. Many Austsalian consumers I'm sure were waiting for the $200 player that never came to us and now it's all too late. You hear all the time that HD-DVD was great for the price aspect, but that really only ever applied to certain markets and I think that ultimatly that was a bit of a blow too even if the market's were smaller.

People here were buying PS3's (and thus Blu ray) because they wanted the console and the format was a good bonus, but I know noone who went and bought a standalone HD-DVD player because everyone expected or wanted the price to be in line with the US. Ahh well.

[spenser.d]

It wouldn't be MS vs Sony in the movie industry, it would be Toshiba vs Sony still.

All MS have to do is back HD DVD and release an integrated player, then shut up shop - Maybe on their 360 adverts say they fully support HD DVD, and that it's a great benefit in buying a 360.

Hardly much effort required from them at all. All they're doing is embracing a piece of hardware in their console, not taking on all the strains and marketing involved at the top level - Which Toshiba are in charge of.

Which while true, you are still missing the point of the potential of backing HD DVD in the gaming industry. People are buying PS3's due to Blu Ray, people would of been buying 360's due to HD DVD if it were different.

What does that mean? More sales for the gaming sector in MS.

On the first - you're pretty much telling a tale of them half-assing their way into the format war. If they wouldn't have gone all out against Sony in backing HDDVD, we'd be in this same situation and MS would've lost a hell of a lot more, not to mention have a bunch of consoles out there that wouldn't do anyone any good.

As for your second part, you can't know that it would've caused more sales, and it probably wouldn't have. It would've caused less than what they're at now, just like the PS3 didn't sell as well because of it's price. You're leaving out a ton of factors that would've come into play if they had put an HDDVD player in there. Also, we don't know how long PS3's will be selling because of Bluray. I've already told you that I don't think it'll be too much longer until standalone prices drop through the floor and then people won't consider the PS3 as a valid choice if all they want is a Bluray player.

All of it is moot anyways. In the state we're in now, MS made the perfect choice.

-Spenser

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Had the 360 had a drive in it, they would have had a 10 million unit head start.

Precisely.

Meanwhile with their HD DVD addon, I think they sold about 200-250k.

Toshiba were selling their players dirt cheap, I think they could've somehow helped out MS to spread HD DVD penetration in homes.

[spenser.d]

Precisely.

Meanwhile with their HD DVD addon, I think they sold about 200-250k.

Toshiba were selling their players dirt cheap, I think they could've somehow helped out MS to spread HD DVD penetration in homes.

No. Not precisely at all :argh:

If the HDDVD drive were in the 360, it wouldn't have sold as well because people wouldn't have been willing to pay the higher price. It would've been worse off for MS, who, as I said, is competing in the gaming industry. In that respect, they made the right choice.

You're making the assumption that everything would've happened exactly the same if MS had put the drive in, and it wouldn't have at all. Microsoft is ahead of Sony more than 2:1 in total hardware sales right now. They outsold the PS3 every single month up until just this January. I don't know how you could say they've made a poor choice.

-Spenser

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

On the first - you're pretty much telling a tale of them half-assing their way into the format war. If they wouldn't have gone all out against Sony in backing HDDVD, we'd be in this same situation and MS would've lost a hell of a lot more, not to mention have a bunch of consoles out there that wouldn't do anyone any good.

As for your second part, you can't know that it would've caused more sales, and it probably wouldn't have. It would've caused less than what they're at now, just like the PS3 didn't sell as well because of it's price. You're leaving out a ton of factors that would've come into play if they had put an HDDVD player in there. Also, we don't know how long PS3's will be selling because of Bluray. I've already told you that I don't think it'll be too much longer until standalone prices drop through the floor and then people won't consider the PS3 as a valid choice if all they want is a Bluray player.

All of it is moot anyways. In the state we're in now, MS made the perfect choice.

-Spenser

And you know this how?

Blu Ray became a huge hit hugely down to EVERY PS3 in a home playing Blu Ray.

How many 360's are in homes? A lot more than PS3s, that's for sure. What does that mean? More HD DVD exposure... It's not rocket science here, it's drawing logical conclusions by looking at how the market turned out.

The PS3 IMO played a huge part in helping Blu Ray win, I can only think the 360 could of done the same for HD DVD.

All of it is moot anyways. In the state we're in now, MS made the perfect choice.

Only time will tell... I think they would've done much more damage to Sony and the PS3 by backing HD DVD fully.

No. Not precisely at all :argh:

If the HDDVD drive were in the 360, it wouldn't have sold as well because people wouldn't have been willing to pay the higher price. It would've been worse off for MS, who, as I said, is competing in the gaming industry. In that respect, they made the right choice.

-Spenser

MS seem to like to offer many models, why couldn't the elite include an HD DVD drive? That was the PERFECT opportunity to include an HD DVD drive.

The elite and PS3 sell for roughly the same, why the large premium on the elite when it contains a DVD drive? Because it's black and contains a 120GB drive? So what, hard drives are dirt cheap. Not to mention the console is lacking in Wi-Fi. MS could of implemented an HD DVD drive in it, it would not of cost them too much.

I did not suggest every 360 would have an integrated HD DVD drive - Although that would make sense, as it's why you can argue the PS3 did well, as every one exposed you to Blu Ray. However I'll respect the mountain of comments I'll receive saying MS wanted to offer choice and cheap alternatives, and that's why im settling on saying the elite should of had an integrated drive.

Edited February 16, 2008 by Audioboxer

[Smigit]

No. Not precisely at all :argh:

If the HDDVD drive were in the 360, it wouldn't have sold as well because people wouldn't have been willing to pay the higher price. It would've been worse off for MS, who, as I said, is competing in the gaming industry. In that respect, they made the right choice.

You're making the assumption that everything would've happened exactly the same if MS had put the drive in, and it wouldn't have at all.

Your assuming the console would cost more had the HD-DVD drive being in there. I can't imagine Toshiba was making much money on the $200 drives they were selling so it may have been practical to instead of offering those $200 units at a presumably little to no profit margin, subsidize the 360 one and not lift the price. If anything it'd sell more 360's and have likely made HD-DVD the defacto well before the PS3 hit the market.

[spenser.d]

I did not suggest every 360 would have an integrated HD DVD drive.

Well you can't well agree that HDDVD would've had a 10 mil head start then, can you.

That would've been a stupid way to go about it. The format war wasn't this iffy little thing. You're either all or none with respect to fully backing one format, otherwise, when things go downhill, you lose too much for no good reason.

But that's ok. As usual, I can see I'm getting absolutely nowhere with you and I don't know why I thought it was worth my time.

-Spenser

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Well you can't well agree that HDDVD would've had a 10 mil head start then, can you.

That would've been a stupid way to go about it. The format war wasn't this iffy little thing. You're either all or none with respect to fully backing one format, otherwise, when things go downhill, you lose too much for no good reason.

-Spenser

Maybe not a "head start", but the Elite is proving to be the most popular 360 model, so that would mean it would of sold a hell of a lot more than the standalone addon did at around 200-250k.

I'm sure the elite model has sold millions - Probably not far off how many actual PS3s have been sold.

But that's ok. As usual, I can see I'm getting absolutely nowhere with you and I don't know why I thought it was worth my time.

So what is your "mission" then, to change my view?

I have a different view, get over it. I'm hardly being disrespectful with what im saying, and others agree, so its not like I have an "extremeist" viewpoint.

I have no problem discussing it, and I have been, even agreeing with some things you say... but it seems when hit with a different view/opinion you go off on this tangent that im somehow "unfair" or a waste of your time.

Thanks for being a nice (Y)

[Thrawn]

<MUST AQUIRE CHEAP HD-DVD PLAYER TO HACK BLUE LASER DIODE>

In other news, the ending of the format war is good news for consumers. But who cares about consumers? Not me. I want a laser diode.