Safari Builds

By Crazysah
in Web Browser Discussion & Support

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wellofsouls

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The latest nightly WebKit r31232 scores a 95/100 on Acid3, it is the same nightly number as the Windows version, so I would think the Windows version also scores a 95. The WebKit team made 3 or 4 blog posts in the last week, they were at 88/100 I think? and now they are almost to 100.

Somehow when I built webkitgtk-svn r31232 in Arch Linux and used it with Midori and Kazahakase, I got only 93/100 on Acid3. However when I built it on Windows and used it with Safari, it got 95/100.

So the Acid3 test result is not just dependent on the rendering/scripting engine, but also the platform and the browser shell? :shiftyninja:

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wellofsouls

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The latest nightly WebKit r31232 scores a 95/100 on Acid3, it is the same nightly number as the Windows version, so I would think the Windows version also scores a 95. The WebKit team made 3 or 4 blog posts in the last week, they were at 88/100 I think? and now they are almost to 100.

Safari was also quite fast to pass the Acid 2 test, just 15 days after Acid2's release, so they are actually slower now that they have already spent more than 15 days and still not passed yet :p

On another note, I'm not sure whether Safari's focus on the Acid tests is a good thing or not. I mean, if they work specifically for it, it's actually quite easy to make a browser pass the Acid tests, but that doesn't necessarily mean better standards compliance. It's only meaningful to pass the Acid tests as a side product of better standards compliance, instead of passing the tests just for the sake of it.

Grand Master

PyX

Posted
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The Acid3 test, like they describe it, is very hard to pass it, because it's like doing a whole exam for each test. There's a bunch of things to determine and in the end, it's only the final result that counts, as well as the time taken to do it. So it proves more that a browser complies to standards by passing the Acid 3 test. You couldn't say this about Acid 2 or even Acid 1.

And still, IMO, Safari is the browser that complies more with the standards. The only real problems I've encountered with it so far are :

1. Websites that say they are not compatible with Safari, because instead of excluding browsers, they made a selection. In these cases, IE and FF and sometimes Opera will work.

2. Websites who use ActiveX or some kind of weird coding.

3. Websites with obscure plugins.

I know it's not related to standards compliance, but I really don't think it's an issue for Safari. Obviously, there's always work to do for standards compliance because new tags appear every month or so at w3... but I bet they're better at that than FF, Opera and clearly, IE.

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wellofsouls

Posted
Posted
The Acid3 test, like they describe it, is very hard to pass it, because it's like doing a whole exam for each test. There's a bunch of things to determine and in the end, it's only the final result that counts, as well as the time taken to do it. So it proves more that a browser complies to standards by passing the Acid 3 test. You couldn't say this about Acid 2 or even Acid 1.

And still, IMO, Safari is the browser that complies more with the standards. The only real problems I've encountered with it so far are :

1. Websites that say they are not compatible with Safari, because instead of excluding browsers, they made a selection. In these cases, IE and FF and sometimes Opera will work.

2. Websites who use ActiveX or some kind of weird coding.

3. Websites with obscure plugins.

I know it's not related to standards compliance, but I really don't think it's an issue for Safari. Obviously, there's always work to do for standards compliance because new tags appear every month or so at w3... but I bet they're better at that than FF, Opera and clearly, IE.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE KHTML/WebKit. IMO, for proprietary engine, Presto >>>> Trident, and for open source engine, KHTML/WebKit >>>> Gecko.

However the pace at which they pass the Acid tests is a bit... unnerving for me. I mean, Safari 3.04 beta = 40/100, Safari 3.1 = 75/100, and WebKit Nightly = 95/100. I wonder if those big score jumps are really due to works towards better web standards compliance, or due to some specific "optimizations" just for the test.

Albeit that's the common problem for sythetic tests, give me two weeks and I can write a Trident shell that passes the Acid 3 test, but not any more standards compliant than IE.

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sanctified Veteran

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Albeit that's the common problem for sythetic tests, give me two weeks and I can write a Trident shell that passes the Acid 3 test, but not any more standards compliant than IE.

Go ahead :) Not that I doubt you, but...

Well, back on topic, I wonder why Webkit had three released builds just this day.

Grand Master

The_Decryptor Veteran

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...

Albeit that's the common problem for sythetic tests, give me two weeks and I can write a Trident shell that passes the Acid 3 test, but not any more standards compliant than IE.

Time to put your money where your mouth is, In 2 weeks I want to see you get IE passing Acid3.

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wellofsouls

Posted
Posted
Go ahead :) Not that I doubt you, but...
Time to put your money where your mouth is, In 2 weeks I want to see you get IE passing Acid3.

I'd love to, unfortunately I'm currently working my tail off building two large websites at once and my boss is constantly driving me to get them done by May, so I don't have the two weeks' time to work on this. Of course if you can really put in some $$$ to my money then maybe I can get some time on this otherwise pointless "project" ;)

btw I never said I can get IE pass Acid3, I'm not the IE chief in M$, I said I can make a Trident shell to pass Acid3. It's quite easy, you just retrieve the Acid3 html into a string, change parts of it that Trident can't handle into what Trident can run to produce the same results, and then feed it into the mshtml or just use the WebBrowser control. Basically an "emulator" of sorts that translates Acid3 codes into Trident codes, I've done similar applications before. Currently I don't have time to work full-time on it, but I may make a C# shell to pass over 20/100 in Acid3 with Trident this weekend, IF I can get some free time this weekend, just to prove I'm not bluffing.

Of course if I want to take the easy way out, I can always just retrieve the html, and checks if it's the Acid3, and then feed the WebBrowser control some pre-made html that will produce the reference result. That should take less than two hours, but I'll refrain from doing that :p

PS: now I've taken a better look at the Acid3 source, it seems I've overestimated its complexity. It won't require even one week to make a Trident shell that translates Acid3 specific codes into "M$-compliant" ones if I can work on it fulltime. But for now, back to ASP.NET and Flex coding :pinch:

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The_Decryptor Veteran

Posted
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Posted
...

btw I never said I can get IE pass Acid3, I'm not the IE chief in M$, I said I can make a Trident shell to pass Acid3. It's quite easy, you just retrieve the Acid3 html into a string, change parts of it that Trident can't handle into what Trident can run to produce the same results, and then feed it into the mshtml or just use the WebBrowser control. Basically an "emulator" of sorts that translates Acid3 codes into Trident codes

...

So you'd break the test until it's in a state where it doesn't actually test anything?

Mentor

wellofsouls

Posted
Posted
So you'd break the test until it's in a state where it doesn't actually test anything?

It's not exactly "breaking the test", just translating the acid3 codes into what the IE can do to produce the proper results. Unless you think emulators like qemu and ZSNES "break" the Linux applications and SNES games to make them run in a "shell" in windows, it's not "breaking the test". Theoretically, a full "W3C emulator" can be built as a shell for Trident so every HTML will show correctly in this Trident shell as what they should show in a fully W3C compliant render engine, but that'd be a lot more work. To pass Acid3 test, only those acid3 specific situations needs to be handled, that's exactly what I mean by the limitation of synthetic tests ;)

Grand Master

John S. Veteran

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Man, those are some nicely organized bookmarks.

My bookmarks end up looking like my desk, scattered without any order.

:laugh: Thanks....I've always got a half dozen or so on the desktop too that I've dragged there temporarily.

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Crazysah

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Man, those are some nicely organized bookmarks.

My bookmarks end up looking like my desk, scattered without any order.

Yes. That happens to me aswell. I cannot get myself to organize the tons of bookmarks I have.

I wish there was a program who would pick up words from bookmarks and sort it according to that!

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