Apple settles lawsuit

By neufuse
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Grand Master

neufuse Veteran

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this is just stupid......

The heated debate over whether Apple is tricking you into believing you can see millions of colors on your Mac has come to a quiet conclusion.

The Chicago Tribune noted last week (spotted by AppleInsider) that Apple has settled a lawsuit brought by two professional photographers claiming that the company falsely advertised the capabilities of their MacBook Pros as being able to display "millions of colors."

The plaintiffs claimed that Apple could achieve those heights only through "dithering."

There's an option in the Displays screen, under System Preferences in Mac OS X, in which you can set the Colors option to "millions." The thing is, the MacBook Pro uses a 6-bit display, and Apple can get to that "millions" number only by using a technique called dithering, which basically blends pixels together to create a shading effect.

The plaintiffs claimed that this use of dithering affected their ability to edit their photos and constituted false advertising, since a 6-bit display is capable only of rendering 262,144 colors without resorting to dithering, not "millions."

Few others seem to care, however; The Tribune said the plaintiffs' lawyer declined to take the case to the limits "because it was difficult to find other people who were wronged because they had bought Macs solely based on the 'millions of colors' claim." Terms of the settlement were not disclosed.

A representative at the San Diego County Superior Court said the case was actually dismissed last year, and so it's not clear why this took so long to come to light. But the outcome is not all that surprising, and I'm left wondering if it took "millions of dollars" for this case to disappear.

Apple has not removed the "millions" option from the display preferences for Mac OS X Leopard.

http://www.news.com/8301-13579_3-9903602-3...ml?tag=nefd.top

I'm sorry but that is the operating system! The OS has no clue how many bit's your panel is.... gawd the only reason they can even try to sue over it is because Apple makes the hardware and software... try to sue MS over this... see how far that gets... as MS doesn't make the hardware....

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Grand Master

neufuse Veteran

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Technically, isn't there a limit to the amount of colours our eyes can actually make out?

Yeah, once someone told me there is about 64 shades of gray we can see, i think its way more but thats what I heard once...

Then they will go after the company that made the monitor.

The monitor mfg didn't write "millions" on the OS though :p What Apple should of wrote is

The OS will attempt to display the following (depending on hardware)

8-bit color up to 256 colors

16-bit color up to thousands

24-bit color up to millions

32-bit color up to billions

(i dont agree with it, but hey if they want to save their butts from people being way to litteral)....

Grand Master

kinetix63 Veteran

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I'd disagree with you on this one neufuse. Apple have control over the hardware on which OS X runs. It is not unreasonable to assume that on a MacBook Pro, the internal LCD screen is being used the majority of the time, and thus the appropriate option should be displayed.

I'm not gonna disagree that this is a ridiculous case, because it totally is, however I think Apple have more control over things than you're suggesting they do ;)

Grand Master

neufuse Veteran

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I'd disagree with you on this one neufuse. Apple have control over the hardware on which OS X runs. It is not unreasonable to assume that on a MacBook Pro, the internal LCD screen is being used the majority of the time, and thus the appropriate option should be displayed.

I'm not gonna disagree that this is a ridiculous case, because it totally is, however I think Apple have more control over things than you're suggesting they do ;)

But then what happens when they use an external display? what if apple someday makes osx for more then just apple hardware? there are a lot of what if's that you have to deal with... the PnP interface to find out what monitor is there could tell you yes its a internal LCD screen, but then Apple would have to keep a hardware list of all the types of LCD's they use, all the color depths they support, etc... in the end it confuses people that are use to being told yes display this at 16bit or 32bit... most computer savy people know this is the setting at the graphics card level not the screen level... what happens if I have it set to 12 bit or what ever the current LCD screen is in the OS then connect a projector up that supports 32bit? am I going to lose color because my system screen doesnt support it by my projector does? Now you are making me take an extra step to set up the comp for the projector so the right color depth after its connected is displayed... it should say "up to"... I think having the OS coded for something that is hardware related like this is kinda dumb after decades of doing it one way... You are changing graphics card settings not monitor settings... maybe put a warning in their monitor driver / profile that says on the screen... ok you can select 32bit but your primary display only shows 12bit it will be dithered...

Experienced

bigmehdi

Posted
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Very few LCD are 8 bit display. And they are very expensive.

Most in the market are 6 bit. However they use tricks to fool eyes, so that you see more colors:

* dithering

* alternating very fast colors

Despites my LCD is 6 bit only, it's very hard to see difference with 8 bit because of the "tricks" used.

Since the price of true 8 bit LCD is damn expensive, (example: Eizo ColorEdge CG211 22.1" LCD sells between $5,500 - $5,900 )

you must be damn stupid to think that the MacBook Pro has a true 8 bit LCD monitor.

Grand Master

Brandon Live Veteran

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The OS is producing output that includes millions of possible colors. Just because the monitor can't handle it doesn't mean the wording in the OS needs to be changed.

If they marketed the laptop this way that is a different story, and I'd agree that it's false advertising and they should be made to correct it (and refund the money of the people who were "misled" into buying it).

If it's just the setting in the OS that they're on about, well, I think that's just stupid and frivolous.

Collaborator

David3k

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I'm not going to get really into this whole thing, because I'm quite sleepy, but what I believe is, if the LCD screen isn't able to display a certain depth, you shouldn't be shown an option saying it's showing more than it really is.

Then again, end-device based dithering techniques still produce results quite indiscernible from the real thing.

Mentor

iconoclast

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If I'm not mistaken, Apple was marketing the MacBooks as being capable of displaying "millions", when they knew they weren't. While it's not life threatening, it still is deceptive advertising.

I concur, it is the principal of the thing. It's people who let these little things go that are always the first to complain on the big things later. If we let this go, then where do we stop? I hate to use the slippery slope argument, but if we let them get away with literally less than three quarters of the claimed performance, then what do we do when the processor only performs at 25% claimed speed?

Bottom line the item was advertised as doing something it cannot, and as apple controls both the hard- and software, they should be held responsible for this.

I do not consider this lawsuit frivolous in any way, shape, or form, and am furthermore pleased at the outcome.

Veteran

tuckeratlarge

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The technical stuff in this thread has left me baffled.

8 bit = 256 colours so how can 6 bit = 262,144?

My LCD, from HP, can display 16 million colours, which makes it slightly more than the quoted 262,144 that a 6 bit display does. bigmehdi states that most LCD's are 6 bit and that 8 bit displays are expensive, so what gives here?

Am I missing something here?

confused!

Veteran

tuckeratlarge

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Every pixel has three sub-pixels (red, green, blue) that make the color. The number of bits refers to the sub-pixels. 6bit = 2^6 = 64 values for each sub-pixels so there are 64 (red) x 64 (green) x 64 (blue) = 262,144 colors

Not confused no more baby, thanks xan.

Grand Master

Linkinfamous

Posted
Posted
The OS will attempt to display the following (depending on hardware)

8-bit color up to 256 colors

16-bit color up to thousands

24-bit color up to millions

32-bit color up to billions

(i dont agree with it, but hey if they want to save their butts from people being way to litteral)....

32-bit is just 24-bit (8bits per color) with an extra byte for alpha transparency. It doesn't actually introduce any 'new' colors, just blending.

Veteran

toadeater

Posted
Posted

Next time Apple, don't say TN panels can support millions of colors.

I notice retailers all over the web listing TN panels as supporting 16 million colors too. Maybe it's time for a class action suit against the entire industry for the panel lottery games they've been playing with LCD monitors?

Be careful your product lives up to what you advertise it to be and be careful it does what you say it will do; that's the lesson that many tech companies are learning the hard way. Microsoft recently found that out as its facing an uphill battle to fight against a class lawsuit alleging it intentionally deceived using "Vista Capable" stickers to sell chipsets.

Now Apple is mired in a similar mess, based on some of its a bit exaggerated claims. Apple's bold advertising claim that its MacBooks support "millions of colors." The only problem -- MacBook LCD are only 6-bit TFT models, only allowing for only 262,144 colors. A true 8-bit display would indeed support "millions of colors", 16,777,216 colors in fact. However, Apple opted to ditch the eight bit display in favor of a cheaper 6 bit one, despite the high cost of Macs.

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=11348

Grand Master

PricklyPoo

Posted
Posted
Next time Apple, don't say TN panels can support millions of colors.

I notice retailers all over the web listing TN panels as supporting 16 million colors too. Maybe it's time for a class action suit against the entire industry for the panel lottery games they've been playing with LCD monitors?

Be careful your product lives up to what you advertise it to be and be careful it does what you say it will do; that's the lesson that many tech companies are learning the hard way. Microsoft recently found that out as its facing an uphill battle to fight against a class lawsuit alleging it intentionally deceived using "Vista Capable" stickers to sell chipsets.

Now Apple is mired in a similar mess, based on some of its a bit exaggerated claims. Apple's bold advertising claim that its MacBooks support "millions of colors." The only problem -- MacBook LCD are only 6-bit TFT models, only allowing for only 262,144 colors. A true 8-bit display would indeed support "millions of colors", 16,777,216 colors in fact. However, Apple opted to ditch the eight bit display in favor of a cheaper 6 bit one, despite the high cost of Macs.

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=11348

Interesting indeed. :yes:

Grand Master

Mathachew Veteran

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I am shocked! Ehhh, not really. You'd figure they wouldn't go cheap on their product, but like all companies, they're trying to get another buck by cutting quality. I'm sure they've learned their lesson, now live up to the standards you have placed! :)

Grand Master

Scirwode

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I seem to remember someone posting about this earlier. Either that, or I read it somewhere else. In my opinion, it's no different than what other companies are doing but at the prices that Apple are charging, they should have done better and should be held accountable for it.

Scirwode

Veteran

Leddy

Posted
Posted
I am shocked! Ehhh, not really. You'd figure they wouldn't go cheap on their product, but like all companies, they're trying to get another buck by cutting quality. I'm sure they've learned their lesson, now live up to the standards you have placed! :)

Actually, all TN panels are 6-bit, which means that the desktop LCD panel you're using is probably 6-bit too, unless you have a 24" or above panel which is probably PVA or IPS.

Veteran

d3nuo

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i'd expect nothing less of them. higher than necessary prices for sub-marginal products. makes their profits even greater. yet their fanboys continue their faithful money-wasting following..

i hate TN panels.. it's difficult to find a decent monitor as TN panels seem to be super-saturating the industry. cheap? yes.. but quality? no!

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