Creative Goes After Driver Modder

[PGHammer]

What's with all this Creative bashing? Their products are amazing and their [XP] drivers are great. I must say though, their Vista drivers aren't so good. But that's really not their fault. Hopefully they'll come up with a new series of soundcards built from the ground up for OpenAL. In the mean time, I'd like to see how far Daniel_K gets with his driver improvements.

OpenAL was never the problem (as the entire Audigy line supports OpenAL, which came out prior to Vista, back in 2003). The issue (with the Audigy) was ALchemy Audigy Edition (which Creative charges $9.995USD for). Given that ALchemy is only needed in Vista (and only for games that don't support OpenAL), either the issue is way overblown, or else Vista's failure is nowhere near as great as has been claimed...

I'm a formar Audigy 2 ZS owner who upgraded to an X-Fi, but not due to any problems with the Audigy (in fact, my Mom, who also runs Vista Ultimate, has my ZS today).

[airbornemist6]

I don't see why it's such a big deal. Linux users have been dealing with these sorts of problems for ages. We gave up on complaining and since Vista sees slightly more support than Linux, I don't think Vista users have too much of a reason to either.

Either way, isn't this similar to things other companies have done? For example:

Case number one:

Autopatcher-Yes, a child of neowin, killed off by Microsoft

We're still buying Microsoft and even cooperating with them. I really wish companies would just release their driver source code, we wouldn't ever have problems like this. Of course we wouldn't have problems with proprietary software if it wasn't for Microsoft introducing it in the 80s...

[QuarterSwede]

After 73 pages of posts on the Creative forum I'd say this is the beginning of the end for Creative (thank goodness). They've been screwing customers into buying new cards for each Windows OS since the 5.1 Live! series. I don't wish to see Creative go bankrupt over this (highly unlikely) but I do hope they learn a lesson and start providing good drivers and customer support (HR especially).

Edited March 30, 2008 by QuarterSwede

[Mayhem]

another company that gone only by making money and not caring for costumers like Sony has also showed

from a programmer perspective this is clear, what Daniel did was only to enable the functions intentionally disabled by Creative because Daniel don't have access to source to code them properly

so all is resumed to this, the code its there, the code was made to work under vista by their programmers, simply Creative decided to use Vista excuse to force people by new hardware

this decision was based because many (if not almost all) happy Creative users with previous generation of Creative cards don't need to buy new one for many years and they simply want to sell more cards again and again using others as a excuse like Microsoft and Vista

so people don't treat the Creative programmers like the devils like i saw many posts on Creative forum, is not their fault, the code its there, the functions are working, they done it, simply Creative marketing decided to disable them to get new sales

Edited March 30, 2008 by Mayhem

[That Guy Veteran]

Yeah, as various people have said, I think this is the end.

They are now selling their HQ building:

http://www.electronista.com/articles/08/03...ive.selling.hq/

I'll let you decide what to think of this:

http://finance.google.com/finance?q=OTC:CREAF

On top of the 700 negative replies and counting to the "Message to Daniel_k" thread, on their own forums , a petition has just started for those who want better driver quality, drivers available on all popular OS's, and, well, see for yourself - with a little luck it might bring some attention with it:

http://www.petitiononline.com/crtvlabs/petition.html

And to top it all off, they've just admitted that they disabled certain features in Vista as a business strategy (at least, that's how I interpreted it):

http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/03/creative-fixing.html

And that concludes my spam for the day :D

I admit it was stupid to buy a card from them a year ago, but then again, we all make mistakes :(

[Randolph]

LMAO @ Creative forums

lmaoooooooooooooooooo

Creative is done. (Y)

[TrickierStinky]

Oh look someone does not want people to think their doing their job incorrect......Oh wait to late never did like creative always gone onboard realtek for me.

I know......REALTEK, but hey they been good to me cant fault it

[GrimReeper]

Oh look someone does not want people to think their doing their job incorrect......Oh wait to late never did like creative always gone onboard realtek for me.

I know......REALTEK, but hey they been good to me cant fault it

:laugh: Realtek. Even with all this going on I'd still rather a Creative over anything Realtek has to offer. They have only ever screwed me over with bad drivers, bad support and bad onboard audio in general but that is a story for another time.

[randomnut]

Asus soundcards for me in future.

[Sethos]

Onboard for me in the future :p

[Yusuf M. Veteran]

^^ The whole DS and DS3D issue is well known. I can understand that.

BUT there is no excuse for:

• throwing in CMSS in their latest 'official' Audigy 2 driver and not bothering to include CMSS2/CMSS Stereo Surround which both sound far superior to CMSS - this daniel_k enabled
  
• not including an equalizer that CLEARLY worked with Vista and possibly XP: maybe it was included in their older drivers CD, I don't know
  
• having drivers that stutter like mad for the simplest of all tasks
  
• And on top of that CMSS just decided to quit working once and for all; driver reinstalls don't fix it
  

Just for the heck of it I decided to try out my motherboard's onboard audio chip. For me it's the first time trying onboard sound on one of my desktop computers since December 2003. All I can say is (Y) to Intel HD Audio. Takes advantage of the Vista sound DSPs - now I can have surround sound and actually hear instruments once muddled out before. Music plays fine without skipping, even while 3DMark2006 and Orthos is running. Only disadvantage is the bass is rather weak, and games will now bitch at me for not having EAX.

I'll see how this works out. There's always XP and my Audigy 2 card waiting for me.

You're right. There is no excuse. Creative is responsible for their actions and now it's biting them in the butt.

This has nothing to do with HAL or OpenAL, as I said once and I say again, you completely missed the point of this entire argument and are only reitterating undisputed facts that have nothing to do with what people are complaining about. The drivers Creative have released for the Audigy/Audigy2/XFI series cards were released with features that were included in but DISABLED by Creative. This modder made reletively minor changes to enable these features which have been proven to be fully functional on Windows Vista, such as DVD-Audio support, DD/DTS decoding and enabling the THX Options as well as a host of other software that CREATIVE decided would not be functional in Vista. Now contrary to what you may believe, none of that has anything to do with any decisions Microsoft has made regarding the removal of the hardware abstraction layer for directsound becuase it is Creative themselves that wrote these options in at driver level. If stating that these features were unsupported, when in FACT they were supported but DISABLED, is not lieing, what exactly is it? Thanks for your input, but you have said nothing I do not already know, and have made no relevent point to the issue at hand. Creative have a very long history of using underhanded business tactics to further their market posistion (Aureal anyone? but to name 1), I suggest you do some googling before deciding that lieing to customers is beyond them. Also reading and understanding the open statement made to daniel_k by Creatives VP wouldnt go amis.

rm20010, the eq and THX setup was never included in either the driver cd included with the Audigy/Audigy2 retail products nor were they avalable for download from Creatives support downloads. This is quite odd considering the Audigy2 in particulalar sported a THX certified logo and was indeed a THX certified product. So why they chose to disable the THX setup software is beyond me. It is however enabled in the unofficial XP/Vista driver support cd released by daniel_k a couple of months ago and works in both XP and Vista. It seems that the software pakages that were updated look more like the Audigy4 with a rotary bezel volume rather than a slider and software selection as a pop up menu extention from the volume control rather than a bar widget thing. Also, thanks to these updated drivers, CMSS2 is functional in Vista they include the Creative Media Center (not originaly available) as well as the various EAX sound effects, which I never use anyway.

Please, don't tell me I missed the point when your post was the basis for my reply. In your earlier post you said "Creative purposely chose to leave certain feature available to XP users disabled in Vista and used the excuse that it was the operating system that did not support those features". I brought up some of those lost features in my post yet you say "I'm re-iterating undisputed facts". Hmmm, I wonder who gave me the idea to bring up those facts. I'm done with the petty arguing so I'll stop it here.

Anyway, I've done a little more research into the issue with Creative/Daniel_K and it spawned a new hatred for Creative within me. I can't understand how a company would deliberately deprive their customers of features that would make their experience better. I don't think I'll ever buy a Creative product again, especially after this whole nonsense.

In any case, I'll try out the new drivers if it supports Windows Vista Ultimate x64. In the meantime I'll look into alternative solutions to Creative such as ASUS, HT Omega, and Auzentech.

OpenAL was never the problem (as the entire Audigy line supports OpenAL, which came out prior to Vista, back in 2003). The issue (with the Audigy) was ALchemy Audigy Edition (which Creative charges $9.995USD for). Given that ALchemy is only needed in Vista (and only for games that don't support OpenAL), either the issue is way overblown, or else Vista's failure is nowhere near as great as has been claimed...

I'm a formar Audigy 2 ZS owner who upgraded to an X-Fi, but not due to any problems with the Audigy (in fact, my Mom, who also runs Vista Ultimate, has my ZS today).

I must agree.

[Borbus]

I can't edit my previous post, but according to Engadget he's being allowed to continue development "as long as no intellectual property of Creative is distributed, [it] will have no problem with it."

If that is true then this guy can just release rdiffs of new drivers to patch the official ones. That's if he is so inclined after being treated this way by Creative. None of this would ever be a problem if Creative just opened the damn specs for their hardware. We don't even want them to make drivers, the community will provide those as has been shown by this guy. We'd have great Vista and *nix drivers for Creative hardware now if they'd just release specs.

[Deciever]

http://forums.creative.com/creativelabs/bo...ing&page=66

[LiGhTfast]

I really hope they go bust

[XIII]

Could anybody still have the driver PM me so I can try it out? I have never heard about this driver until now.

Thanks,

[kaffra]

ive stopped buying anything from creative since my live card for their decision to charge for drivers a few years back

[KeeperOfThePizza]

creative has no class.

[ecotrojan]

Could anybody still have the driver PM me so I can try it out? I have never heard about this driver until now.

Thanks,

I got it from utorrent, the whole debacle came in at 705mb :whistle:

[koppit]

Holy crap they have 107 pages of ****ed off people! Creative isn't going to forget this.

[Chris123NT]

This was posted on their forums by a newegg rep, they're ****ed:

To Whom it May Concern:

While it is not our place to condemn the decisions of Creative regarding this issue, our customers come first. That being said, it has come to our attention that many of our customers are not happy with the products Creative has released nor the support for those products. To wit, we have processed nearly 5,000 return orders within the past 48 hours. While it is not normally in our best interest to publically comment in a manufacturer's forum, the overwhelming concensus has left us little choice. As such, effective tommorow morning newegg.com will suspend sales of the sound cards in question, particularly those indicated as "Vista compatible", pending an investigation into the matter. Those of you whom recently ordered such a card will still recieve your product as indicated in any relevant conversations. While we regret this abrupt decision, it has been deemed neccessary to protect the interest of our consumers. We welcome contact from Creative as soon as is possible so that we may resolve this issue.

Thank you,

Newegg.com

http://www.newegg.com

E:/ [email protected]

HELPFUL LINKS:

Print Help And FAQs: http://www.newegg.com/Info/FAQHome.aspx

Our Contact Information: http://www.newegg.com/Info/ContactUs.aspx

Update Account: https://secure.newegg.com/NewVersion/MyAcco...countModify.asp

[richardsim7]

^^^ Oh my god!!! :laugh:

-Rich-

[ViperAFK]

Newegg is the best.

[StevoJD]

Haha, can't believe this boycott has actually gone somewhere.

[Tatiania]

Could anybody still have the driver PM me so I can try it out? I have never heard about this driver until now.

Thanks,

Me too, please. I wanna try these out for my X-Fi Premium on my Vista Computer.

TIA, Thnx

Tati

[ssjchris_29]

the modded drivers are torrented, just do a search and you'll find them easily enough, especially now!