"Advanced" Network

[NormaJean]

Hello,

I have a problem that I can't solve and since my situation is kind of unique, I can't find a solution online.

I want to make a home network but my setup is kind of weird :)

On the ground floor, there's the modem with a computer.

On the first floor is also a computer and a digicorder.

Now this is the problem:

Currently my internet is working but the downstairs computer can't get into the same network as the computer on the first floor.

Why? Well, My modem is in another place as my pc on the ground floor, so from the modem to the computer on the first floor, there's a large UTP CAT5e cable. This cable comes to a switch. from that switch there is a connection to a wireless router for a wireless internet connection downstairs. The downstairs computer is also connected to this router.

From the switch downstairs, a cable goes to the first floor to another switch to which my second computer and digicorder is connected.

I think this isn't the best solution but the main problem to making a good network is that the digicorder needs to be directly connected to the modem. So I can only put a switch between the digicorder and the modem. The most obvious reason would be to make a second cable connection from the router downstairs to the router upstairs but that's kind of tricky cause of the architecture of the house.

So I was wondering if there were any other solutions?

Thanks in advance!

[+BudMan MVC]

Having a hard time making heads or tails of how you have everything connected.. Is there more than 1 internet connection to the house? Ie do you have more than 1 ISP? You clearly have multiple routers.. That I would assume you have setup in a double nat -- which yes would cause you all kinds of grief trying to get your computers to talk to each other.

Please draw out your network, don't worry about what floor or room anything is in.. Just draw out the connections you have in place...

You say your modem to your computer, and then from your computer to a switch.. Is your computer running ICS (internet connection sharing)?

Is it really a modem or a modem/router combo that is doing NAT.. Please post all the make and model numbers of the devices as well. And we will layout your network so that everything can talk to each other, and get on the internet, etc.

Also WTF is a "digicorder" please post a make and model number of this device.

edit: Yeah that would of been my guess as well -- but want to be sure ;) Something like this I assume

http://www.technisat.com/indexfd21.html?na..._DVB_S_,en,64-1

Edited May 7, 2008 by BudMan

[+StevoFC MVC]

Also WTF is a "digicorder" please post a make and model number of this device.

I would assume a dvr...

[NormaJean]

In the attachement, I've put a drawing.

I'll explain to you the different devices.

1. Modem

Only has one Ethernet port, this device is a modem only. Fibre optic cable from the ISP goes in at one end and UTP comes out at the other end, into our house.

2. Switch 1

Provided by the ISP when I bought my Digicorder from the ISP.

3. Router

Just to provide wireless access.

4. Switch 2

This one is upstairs and is connected with switch 1 as you see in the picture.

5. Digicorder

Sorry, it's in Dutch, those devices are ISP dependend so they are only used here in Belgium. It's just used to watch and record digital TV

Again, I know if you look at the picture you would wonder why I'm using two switches, it's only because the digicorder needs to be connected directly to the modem, otherwise it won't function properly.

If you have more questions, ask away and also already a big thank you for taking the time to look at my problem.

[+StevoFC MVC]

First I would try removing switch 1 and just replacing it with the router. It's hard for me to believe that the "digicorder" would work with a switch but not with the router.

[+BudMan MVC]

Ok -- thats much easier to understand, thanks!

Ok your only problem is that I am assuming your using your wireless router as an router, and not just as an access point.. So yes your going to have issues with pc2 talking to pc1.. And even possible with pc1 talking to digicorder or pc2 -- since they would look to have public IPs. So you have pc1 on a private natted network, and pc2 and digicorder on the public network with IPs supplied by your ISP.

So your saying that is just a modem -- so your ISP gives you atleast 2 pubic IPs? PC2 gets a public, and so does the digicorder?

Why does the digicorder need a pubic IP ? If it needs lots of ports open to the public net that you do not want to forward, then put in the DMZ of your router.

I would NOT set it up as you have. I would put pc1 and 2 behind your router on a private network - and if need be the digicorder also connected to the routers private network, but in the DMZ if it needs lots of ports (that can not just be forwarded).

If it needs a public - and sure looks like your ISP must supply more than 1 public IP. Then change the connection of pc2 to be on the private network of your router. If you can not directly connect it to the router, then we will have to work out how you can re cable, or get some switches that can handle vlans, or some more switches to you can expand your private network to where you could connect your pc2.

Or just get a wireless card for your pc2.

I would not suggest putting all your machines on a the public network if you plan on doing windows file/print sharing between them.

Can you not just run a cable from the private side of the router to pc2?

Is there a link to the manual for that digicorder -- english would be great, but even dutch would be better than nothing. So I can see why needs to be on a public IP. Could you give the model number of that digicorder, so I can look to see if there is info on it in english.

edit: 2 routers is not going to help his pc's talk to each other.. he would just have 2 private networks that way. Unless he connect the lans together -- but that would be the same as just putting the digicorder into the dmz of the 1st router.

Edited May 8, 2008 by BudMan

[+StevoFC MVC]

edit: 2 routers is not going to help his pc's talk to each other.. he would just have 2 private networks that way. Unless he connect the lans together -- but that would be the same as just putting the digicorder into the dmz of the 1st router.

I never said use 2 routers. I said get rid of switch 1 and just use the current router he has.

[+BudMan MVC]

Sorry -- I misread your post, my bad :blush:

Yes I agree his pc's need to be on the private side of the router. If his digicorder has to have a public IP, which I do not understand. Then sure he could have ISP supply an public to his digicorder and another to his router. Which its doing now public to his router, public to his pc2 and digicorder.

He would just have to recable to allow for these connections, depending on where his pc's are located, etc.

We are in agreement then.. Sorry I misread your post.

[NormaJean]

So your saying that is just a modem -- so your ISP gives you atleast 2 pubic IPs? PC2 gets a public, and so does the digicorder?

I get four public dynamic IP's from my ISP

Why does the digicorder need a pubic IP ? If it needs lots of ports open to the public net that you do not want to forward, then put in the DMZ of your router.

I don't know why but the digicorder needs to be connected directly to the net.

Believe me, I tried putting it behind the router and it doesn't work then, well I get picture etc but I can't use the interactive things.

If it needs a public - and sure looks like your ISP must supply more than 1 public IP. Then change the connection of pc2 to be on the private network of your router. If you can not directly connect it to the router, then we will have to work out how you can re cable, or get some switches that can handle vlans, or some more switches to you can expand your private network to where you could connect your pc2.

Recabling is almost impossible since the cable that goes from downstairs to my room has been a hell of a work to get it here. Laying a second one is almost impossible :s.

Or just get a wireless card for your pc2.

I game on the pc and wireless gaming isn't that good ^^

Is there a link to the manual for that digicorder -- english would be great, but even dutch would be better than nothing. So I can see why needs to be on a public IP. Could you give the model number of that digicorder, so I can look to see if there is info on it in english.

http://www.interactieve-digitale-tv.be/ima...s_DB-AD1000.pdf

Thanks for the help so far!!!!

[episode]

I get four public dynamic IP's from my ISP

So? Just because you have them doesn't mean you have to use them.

I don't know why but the digicorder needs to be connected directly to the net.

Believe me, I tried putting it behind the router and it doesn't work then, well I get picture etc but I can't use the interactive things.

That means you need to find out what port it uses for that stuff and forward that port through the router.

Recabling is almost impossible since the cable that goes from downstairs to my room has been a hell of a work to get it here. Laying a second one is almost impossible :s.

Don't need a second cable.

I game on the pc and wireless gaming isn't that good ^^

Anything including and above g you won't notice a difference.

[+BudMan MVC]

Ok -- I do not believe that is the right manual?? No where in that manual does it show using ethernet?, nor do I see anything about using tcp/ip, etc.

From all of the pictures showing hooking it up -- it only shows this type of cable.. Which is clearly not ethernet.

Now its possible I missed something, since I do not read Dutch.. But I can look at the pictures -- and nothing I saw even resembled using ethernet and an IP address.

but as mentioned.. when you put the device behind your router.. Did you put its IP in the DMZ of your router? This would make it WIDE OPEN to all traffic to and from the internet, but still put in on your private network.

As to how to reconnect/recable the connetions so that your pc2 is on the private network of the router.. I am not sure what would be involved currently, since I am not clear on the locations of these devices.

Why can not the router be at the same location the first switch is.. (or is it?)

What I would do is replace the first switch with the router, and put the IP address of the digicorder in the DMZ of the router.. There is NO reason why it should not work if in the DMZ of the router.

[+StevoFC MVC]

What I would do is replace the first switch with the router, and put the IP address of the digicorder in the DMZ of the router.. There is NO reason why it should not work if in the DMZ of the router.

yeah exactly. A DMZ is probably all that is needed.

[NormaJean]

Aha, what an excellent idea, hadn't thought of that myself. If I put the digicorder IP in the DMZ then I can change the setup to:

Modem --> Router --> Switch --> Digicorder

Attach PC1 to the router and PC2 to the switch so everything is behind the router.

Damn man, you really know your stuff ^^

Thanks alot, I'm going to try that tomorrow since it's almost midnight here :)

I'll keep you posted.

Thanks again!!!!

[NormaJean]

Ok, I couldn't wait and I already tried it but I think I did something wrong because it doesn't work.

These were the settings my digicorder had when it was fully functioning:

MAC 00:03:91:83:76:CF

IP 10.181.231.212

Network Mask 255.255.192.0

Gateway 10.181.192.1

Primary DNS 195.130.130.134

Secondary DNS 195.130.130.134

In my router I activated DMZ.

As source IP range I took:

FROM 10.181.231.1 to 10.181.231.254

As destination I used the MAC addres, I could also type in an IP but I didn't know what that should have been.

So I restarted the digicorder and it doesn't work anymore, it gets a 192.168.1.x IP (PC2 is working though ^^)

What did I do wrong?

[+BudMan MVC]

Um 10.181 is NOT a PUBLIC IP address.. 10.x.x.x/8 is a PRIVATE address range and not routeable on the public NET!

In your router you would set the DMZ to the private IP address your digicorder gets from router.. ie the 192.168.1.x address

Im grabbing the UG for your router.. since what your talking about makes no sense for setting up a DMZ

edit: Ok took a look at the manual, and yup you can setup a source range.. Who says that 10.182.231.1-254 is where your digicorder is talking too??? You should use the ANYIP.. since you have no idea where on the internet its talking too -- do you?

And if you sure that is the MAC address of your digicorder, then sure you could put in the that.. But the 192.168 address would work too.

edit2 But what I do not like is that 10.x.x.x address.. That is NOT a public IP.. What does your router show for its public IP address.. is it a 10.181 address as well? If so then your behind a NAT somewhere.. 10.181 is a private IP

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_network

Is is behind a NAT somewhere to get to the internet.

Edited May 8, 2008 by BudMan

[NormaJean]

Digicorder gets the IP 192.168.1.102 and that's the one I added as source, as destination I used the MAC but it stil doesn't work.

External IP is 84.195.43.179 , but that changes from time to time.

[NormaJean]

I found some usefull information. I can post it here but it's a forum post and it's in dutch so you won't understand it :)

They say that it's almost impossible to use a DMZ.

The best solution, various people say, is by putting a custom firmware on the router so that you can make your router have the switch functionalities.

The goal is that you change LAN port 1 to a second WAN port through bridging or something and then you can use that port for the digicorder.

Only problem is that I don't understand anything about it :s

They talk about using OpenWRT, my router is in the compatibility list but I don't know which file I need to download to flash the router cause I can't find a *.bin file in any of those packages :s

[+StevoFC MVC]

Ok, well without a firmware change here is what you would have to do.

I'm still slightly confused as to how the house is wired exactly, but basically you can leave everything as is except you need to figure out a way to connect PC 2 into the router.

Or you can disable dhcp (and possibly NAT) on the router and set all of the ip addresses manually so that they can see each other. But then you will be limited to 4 devices total that can connect to the internet because of how your ISP is set up.

[pouet]

Hi,

I have the exact same problem.

Did you find a solution?