Stardock's relationship with Neowin and its criticizers

[Glowstick]

That said, I think you'd be hard pressed to find a single posting where I have casually waved the "ban" stick. In the years I've been an admin, the # of people I've banned could be counted on 1 hand.

It's not really about applying it. However it upsets people if you come around with an attitude, for which a regular member would land in hot water, while being also an admin. You'd think that the administration sets the bar in conduct. That's the point. Whether the ban hammer will be applied or not isn't. Just that you have it creates enough fear with some members in certain situations. And who knows what happens if someone actually has the guts to call you out on it in a similar tone, see the hot-headed response you ostensibly gave a former Neowin mod a bunch of posts higher.

I don't know what's actually going on in your head, but what I'm writing is how it looks like on the outside when you're being very "opiniated".

[+StevoFC MVC]

...And who knows what happens if someone actually has the guts to call you out on it in a similar tone...

I was banned. ;)

[Wannes]

Sorry, I didn't read the thread because I only want to reply to what Neobond said.

I once was an active poster in the WindowBlinds, Stardock, subforum as I owned the program and a "friend" of mine, b0se, was actively participating by design themes. WindowsBlinds had its fans and its haters just like most programs do but the discussions were good and, most importantly, mature. People could talk as adults and that way build up a conclusion instead of jumping to one.

After a 2-year participation I was forced to bring back my posts with a decent amount, actually I just left Neowin for 1,5 years as my job was killing me. ( I now have another job. ) However, when I came back and started reading the Stardock section again I could only notice immature, childish discussions of people not willing to accept that 65% of the WindowBlinds themes are bulky or not willing to accept that WindowBlinds doesn't eat your resources anymore. Yes, the latter had been a problem WindowBlinds encountered but it's been solved before I left Neowin. Now, almost 2 years later, people are still complaining about it.

Anyway, there will always be immature people who do not understand the process behind this site. It's only a "website" to some and you don't need a lot of money. I do, sincerely, hope that Neobond's post will get some people back on the ground. Stardock did a great job for this site and without them it might not have been possible to write this post.

Thank you Stardock, thank you Brad and thank you Neowin. Now, tell me to wipe my nose.

[Frogboy Administrators]

It's not really about applying it. However it upsets people if you come around with an attitude, for which a regular member would land in hot water, while being also an admin. You'd think that the administration sets the bar in conduct. That's the point. Whether the ban hammer will be applied or not isn't. Just that you have it creates enough fear with some members in certain situations. And who knows what happens if someone actually has the guts to call you out on it in a similar tone, see the hot-headed response you ostensibly gave a former Neowin mod a bunch of posts higher.

I don't know what's actually going on in your head, but what I'm writing is how it looks like on the outside when you're being very "opiniated".

I only seem like I have an attitude because I'm very arrogant. When someone argues I'm "having a bad day" it's not that. It's just that when I'm very busy, I don't have time to pretend that I'm not arrogant and so my comments come out as being arrogant.

So what you have is a perfect storm:

1) A group of people who have an axe to grind because I've handled them roughly.

2) A group of people who think the evil corporate powers are going to use Neowin to spam their evil capitalism into the world and must do something about it by trolling every news item.

And voila.

That said, I think most people would be hard pressed to justify the loathsome behavior in some of the news items over the years to anything I've done or said. After all, if I was some sort of evil power mad bastage I'd just ban everyone who criticizes me or Stardock right? But clearly **clearly** that isn't happening. :)

[+Nik Louch Subscriber²]

After all, if I was some sort of evil power mad bastage

Rule 3 - circumventing the swear filter ;)

Ha - just messing ya!

But again, as an admin - I would be keen to hear your view on the argument: "You do things that would get other members a warn"?

[vincent]

There's always someone who wishes to cause disruption. Nothing new, really :p .

Scirwode

I just chalk it up as people who don't have much of an outside life. Maybe if they got off their butts once in awhile, and actually leave their computer, get some outside air then they will have a new perspective on the internet and hopefully not let a website who's just trying to stick around for it's users ( Is that illogical for wanting to do so? NO!) affect them so much.

Either that or they need to get a life :p

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

I just chalk it up as people who don't have much of an outside life. Maybe if they got off their butts once in awhile, and actually leave their computer, get some outside air then they will have a new perspective on the internet and hopefully not let a website who's just trying to stick around for it's users ( Is that illogical for wanting to do so? NO!) affect them so much.

Either that or they need to get a life :p

Uhhh, almost 18k posts, ironic much? :rofl:

*runs and hides*

[Lare2]

The problem with this whole thing is that the staff here assumes most people have a problem with Brad due to his Stardock affiliation, but that's not the case at all. People just flat out don't like him. It has nothing to do with the companies he owns or doesn't own. It comes down to the way he treats members here.

If you drive members away due to a "I'm better than you attitude" then all the money invested doesn't mean much now does it?

Totally agree with StevoFC.

........ After all, if I was some sort of evil power mad bastage I'd just ban everyone who criticizes me or Stardock right? But clearly **clearly** that isn't happening. :)

So you don't have anything to do with Neobond decision to start this post. :rolleyes:

Neobond just wake up that morning and decided he was going to start this post just for fun :rolleyes:

He clearly wants people to know how good you have been for the community and all that so the members thinks twice before bashing you, or any Startdock's products

Edited May 13, 2008 by Lare2

[Frogboy Administrators]

Rule 3 - circumventing the swear filter ;)

Ha - just messing ya!

But again, as an admin - I would be keen to hear your view on the argument: "You do things that would get other members a warn"?

LOL. Consider myself warned! :)

So you don't have anything to do with Neobond desicion to start this post.

Neobond just wake up that morning and decided he was going to start this post just for fun

He clearly wants people to know how good you have been for the community and all that so the members thinks twice before bashing you, or any Startdock's products

Actually no I didn't know about the post until midday yesterday. It wasn't discussed at all. I was in a meeting and someone brought this post up. I then had to wait another hour to get through the meeting to see what actually was said. I think Steve did it spur of the moment.

[Steven P. Administrators]

I made the post because whenever Brad has time and becomes active around here, an army of hippies start invading threads he participates in or starts, with their "corporate hate" when in-fact it is the company Brad owns that saved Neowin from going under. We needed a business model and he provided it.

[+Nik Louch Subscriber²]

LOL @ "hippies". Some people just seem to hate corporations, instantly distrust them, or at least proclaim to because it's cool.

Probably posting from their Dell in a Starbucks...

[Cara Veteran]

I made the post because whenever Brad has time and becomes active around here, an army of hippies start invading threads with their "corporate hate" when in-fact it is the company Brad owns that saved Neowin from going under. We needed a business model and he provided it.

In all honesty I feel that the partnership with StarDock has benefited Neowin. This entire purchase thing happened while I was gone, however the Neowin I returned to is much stronger and more stable than the Neowin I left so I feel that the people hating on Brad and StarDock need to give thought to what Neowin was and could have become before they open their mouths and complain. :p

[Verdelite]

Hmm, well, I enjoy fanning the flames, but ive never started something myself. I dont have a problem against Frogboy or Stardock, and if I were reamed like some people do him then I probably would comment the way he does. I happen to like deskscapes after me myself made a negative comment about it, but I didnt have Vista at the time either, so I was just 'fanning the flames' Im actually thinking about buying it, cuz the waving grass as a wallpaper kicks ass. So I heretofor remove all ym negative comments about Stardock and mr. Frogboy as deskscapes has opened my eyes (after I actually tried it instead of just fanning the flames.)

[+Gary7 Subscriber²]

I didn't even know who Frogboy was untill I read this thread. I also have no problem with Stardock. The only program I use from them is LogonStudio Vista.

[Rappy Veteran]

LOL @ "hippies". Some people just seem to hate corporations, instantly distrust them, or at least proclaim to because it's cool.

Probably posting from their Dell in a Starbucks...

:laugh:

So true!

[Digitalx]

Smells a bit Microhoo'ey! :pinch:

Jk

I have no problem with stardock its products or affiliation/ownership of neowin.

At the end of the day i guess people jump to conclusions. Yes, stardock make software, yes they sell it. But by no means does this make them the size of Microsoft or expect they or he would do as you see by other companies who pick up other small companies or websites or whatever and impose their branding/promotion whatever. Frogboy/brad maybe admin and partial owner here and/or owner of stardock or whichever but before that he is human, he's not robotic psychopath like steve ballmer or anything...

[static_geek]

"Sins of a Stardock Empire" j/k

[+Mirumir Subscriber¹]

Thank you Stardock, thank you Brad and thank you Neowin.

/signed.

[Krome]

Thanks for the news Neobond. I never knew that Stardock and Neowin have a partnership on the stocks (if you can call it that). After reading your post I had to search Neowin to see if I had a run-in with the party in question and it was to my surprise I saw one or two that I took part in. No it was not directly towards Frogboy/Brad but it was towards Stardocks software. It was not a direct confrontation with Brad. I only commented on the software. Brad jump in and defended Stardocks.

This action to inform Neowin users will have some partitions. I don't know a better way to acknowledge this issue with a neutral ground but as it had been, those that stands on the solid ground will stand by their remarks to the end. Let's not label that as "trolling". Let's call that as their "statements" for now. I can see from here on, the plain-field has been set (I hope that make sense). At first I thought it was unfair that you decided to have this settle this way, but from reading previous post by Frogboy/Brad, I think it is fair to say that it is acceptable. I mean Frogboy said that he didn't know about this post until half a day later. So I guess it was not Frogboy decision that you do this.

Frogboy, I don't believe I have a bad day with you, not any that I am aware of anyways. I see that you acknowledge a certain label people assert on to you, and from that I think you are not as a bad person as this post might have been portray you.

I like the idea that Stardocks take theme'ing (?) to a new level. They seem to take major strides in enhancing the desktop experience. I, like many other people, tried Stardocks many many times. Stardocks seems to break my desktop on many occasions. By rights, I believe I have the right to state my experience on that. Don't expect me to say nice things about it when it infact does the opposite. I think you should not take that as "trolling" or anything against you. I think in the past you probably take it too personally and defend Stardock with your iron-fist (lol). I think that is why many people had a run-in with you.

Personally, I think Neobound and the Staff made the decisions necessary (economically) to provide this community with the best. I'm not a Stardock Product Fan and I find no need to bad mouth it..i've tried it..disliked it and walked away....there is constructive criticism that is handled maturely...and then there are the children every forum has that needs to express the temper tantrums...hopefully one day they will chase a ball across the highway without looking both ways.

LOL

There are two sides to a coin, and both these sides are more or less well balanced here on Neowin.

As one of the first members and staff on a site who, kind of, had a deeper knowledge of this entire deal going on; I was very reluctant myself when I first heard of the proposition, along with several other staff. We used to even harbor a strong anti-corporate sentiment. But with all the crap we had to go through with server troubles (we would more than often change hosts, undergo downtimes, etc), legal issues with Microsoft, etc. It was simply inevitable. It was costing Neobond and Redmak too much to keep the cogs running. It was really as simple as that. There was no conspiracy or anything fishy behind the deal, at least on Neowin's part. But after all these years of being with Stardock; I'll be completely fair and say that I have never noticed any hostile authoritative takeover attempt on their part. They have always been very modest in how they effect the overall content of Neowin. Like a member above said, you never get the impression that Stardock is taking advantage of the opprtunity; you don't see a bunch of banners or Stardock spam on the site. In fact, to be honest, I'm surprised by this. I thought they'd be asking a lot more than what they've received.

But now on to the point of Brad/Frogboy; I think I have to go with the minority on this one. And StevoFC put it VERY accurately.

The staff may never straightforwardly admit that, but it's very true. People have a problem with Frogboy not because Stardock owns Neowin, but because of his attitude.

Now, personally I never had any run in with Frogboy during my staff times on Neowin. But, however, I think I feel the same way as StevoFC and Tom Servo about his overall general attitude.

Frogboy, pointing out the fact that you get more attention than others because you are a CEO of a company doesn't justify your attitudes towards members here. I'm not going to pick out specific instances here, but it has been on more than a few occasions that you have been offensively vocal and raised that Ban stick or give out unnecessary warns to members that legitimately (maybe not constructively) criticize your products. You make it look like they reigned your parade when you respond that way.

Now maybe that has changed, I haven't been very active here, but this is at least why members flat out didn't like Frogboy/Brad. And keep in mind, once again, that this has nothing to do with Stardock's corporate partnership with Neowin. This is on a personal level with the attitude of Frogboy himself.

No matter how much money Stardock has given Neowin, no matter how much better services Neowin has been able to provide it's members as a result of this (which I highly respect Stardock for leaving NEowin virtually untouched, don't get me wrong), it will never, ever, justify an Admin acting with a "better than thou" or a "know it all" attitude towards its members.

Yet, shoving all that aside, I really like how Neowin has evolved to be now! As a veteran member here, beleive me when I say it does take a full time effort to do what the staff of Neowin are doing. Cheers to the staff! Keep up the good work.

I stand on your statement as well. Nice to see a senior member stating his thoughts on that issue.

Anyone passionate about anything is going to take a beating from some people - More so than someone who's maybe a little more reserved and less outspoken. It's kind of a ball in your park you have to accept. If you're going to be outspoken, and publicly make it known you do like a product, you have to be prepared to put up with resistance. Some of that resistance is absolutely fine, it's just a mirror image of someone who is the same as you, except they support a competitor, however some of it is also toxic as you talked about in your blog. Mods are there to encourage the good side to allow neowin to have debates and civil-arguments, but also to weed out the toxic posts.

Nowadays the line between passion and a degrading statement like "fanboy" seems to be hazy in some accusers eyes. It's one extreme or the other for them, they don't seem to see it possible for someone to really be happy/satisfied with a product, yet still be able to criticise it, and understand when something else is better - If you lavish on a little more praise than they deem fit, you'll be called out as someone who's blind, can't see any wrong in the product, ect, ect.

Best thing you can do is keep as best a balance in your arguments as you can, admit when you're "wrong" (it's inevitable someone may find/see a flaw in your argument, or just come out with an opinion you actually agree with over the one who originally posted) and just stick to the rules.

You do that, and it's the people lashing out at you who'll get in trouble eventually...

Not really aimed at you Brad, I hardly know you, but I kind of get the jist at what you mean in your post.

Nothing wrong with that, I'd rather someone takes the time to type up a decent backing to their argument/opinion, and the board manages to find flaws/areas to talk about, than the people who fly in with a one-hit-"wonder"-sentence and then do a runner after seeing the fireworks go off.

I stand with you on your statement too. :)

[vincent]

In all honesty I feel that the partnership with StarDock has benefited Neowin.

/thread (Y)

[Minifig]

I have, and will continue to support Neowin, and Stardock.

Stardock makes some of my absolute favorite applications I use.

[mtrftw]

i enjoy sins of a solar empire and have nothing against stardock, but the atittdue of without money neowin disappears is understandable. However, without readers neowin disappears as well. Rushing to defend the honor of a 40% owner by calling some readers of the site trolls and what not is immature and unprofessional. As a (semi) public figure I'm sure mr. wardell is aware that you must take the good with the bad, whether justified or not. perhaps you're more concerned that he'll get upset and pull his funding?

[LordGoofy]

Not many posts for as long as I have been here. But I will say that things here are a lot better since this deal happened. So thanks to all involved for making this a better place. I have never used any of Stardocks products other then games, but I could spend all day staring at Galactic Civ II. It is simply one of my favortie games ever!

[+shift. MVC]

However, without readers neowin disappears as well.

He brings up a very good point that has to be considered.

[+Mirumir Subscriber¹]

Not many posts for as long as I have been here. But I will say that things here are a lot better since this deal happened. So thanks to all involved for making this a better place. I have never used any of Stardocks products other then games, but I could spend all day staring at Galactic Civ II. It is simply one of my favortie games ever!

1337 memba alert!

p.s. love your sig ahaha!