No Charges For Man Who Killed Burglars

[markwolfe Veteran]

This is murder of the 1st degree, he had prior intention and commited the act...

It was commited outside his house with shots to the back.

Anyone actually has doubt if these were americans citizens and not illegal immigrants the results would be diffrent?

I'm not sure whether 1^st degree or manslaughter, or some other crime of murder variant, but he certainly should have been convicted of killing them, in my opinion.

And, yes, if these were two kids that were sons of a neighbor, I am pretty sure that the verdict would have been different. It would have pitted neighbor against neighbor, instead of US citizen bravely defending property from thieving immigrants. (N)

[Peter Griffin]

The 911 call is classic if you haven't listened to it. I definitely think the guy was going too far by going outside, but if he was correct in saying that they came onto his property and he felt threatened, then fire away. Thieves won't come around anytime soon if they know they are getting a shotgun slug that will send bodyparts flying for their troubles.

[Eis]

Keep in mind he can't do all the calm and cool thinking that everybody over the internet takes advantage of. Spur of the moment, adrenaline pumping, and not even a shred of doubt of what is going on right in front of you makes you act a bit differently than normal.

[markwolfe Veteran]

Keep in mind he can't do all the calm and cool thinking that everybody over the internet takes advantage of. Spur of the moment, adrenaline pumping, and not even a shred of doubt of what is going on right in front of you makes you act a bit differently than normal.

You would have a point... except for the whole 911 call where he states he is heading out specifically to shoot and kill them. :|

[C_Guy]

"They came in the front yard with me, man. I had no choice."

Actually, he did have a choice. He could have stayed in his house as advised by the 911 operator. He could have waited for police to get there and handle it. Not a hard concept. Breaking and entering doesn't mean your neighbor has the right to open fire and get away with it. Material things can be replaced. Lives can't.

I sure hope my neighbors AREN'T so mentally unstable as to think they should kill someone for walking away with material things. Anyone ever hear of this thing called insurance? But I guess for certain people on this board, they'd prefer homicidal neighbors that open fire at the first sign of trouble. To each their own I guess :rolleyes:

[iconboy]

simple: was the man justified in killing these people?

1) if the robbers were leaving the neighbor's house and fleeing with the good, then NO. the trained 911 operator told him to stay inside the house! He should have stayed inside! no amount of things stolen is ever worth risking your life over! things can be replaced!

2) if the robbers were targetting his house next, then yes he was justified- because then the situation directly involves him.

he went out of his way to insert himself in that situation. calling 911 was all he was required to do as a good citizen and a good neighbour! \you need to leave this kind of stuff to the cops. Also when a highly trained 911 operator tells you to do something, YOU DO IT! they are not trying to put you in harms way!

and when he called back- it reminded me of my friend who use to work as a bouncer. what he would do when confronted outside the clubs by drunken people is, he would yell as loud as he could "hey man back off! i dont want to hurt you" then he would get in real close like he was hugging them and yell "hey get your hands off me!" and then he would proceed and kick the living crap out of them! why did he say all that? because when the cops showed up he had plenty of witnesses that heard him say that before the altercation.

sound familiar?

[Mike Frett]

People are so quick to use guns over judgment. Now tell me who the real animals are?. I went out the other day and bought a gun because of the Supreme Court ruling. When asked why I was purchasing a gun, I pointed over at the other patrons of the store and said "That's why".

[PermaSt0ne]

People are so quick to use guns over judgment. Now tell me who the real animals are?. I went out the other day and bought a gun because of the Supreme Court ruling. When asked why I was purchasing a gun, I pointed over at the other patrons of the store and said "That's why".

well since you are doing the same thing don't complain

Breaking and entering doesn't mean your neighbor has the right to open fire and get away with it.

actually, if you read the article, it does. you are allowed to defend your property and your neighbors property with deadly force in texas

"The message we're trying to send today is the criminal justice system works," Harris County District Attorney Kenneth Magidson told reporters at the courthouse

LOL this is the biggest BS i've heard this week. kids who pirate songs and movies are getting 30 years in jail, where murders are getting 15 with "good behavior"

i don't support being a vigilante. i think the guy should have stayed inside the house, but if he had any confidence that the police would show up and handle the situation then he wouldn't have gone outside to defend his house and himself

but don't even try to save face by saying the court system works. it's so f'd up it's not even funny

[markwolfe Veteran]

actually, if you read the article, it does. you are allowed to defend your property and your neighbors property with deadly force in texas

Actually, if you read the article you see it says "The use of deadly force is carefully limited in Texas law to certain circumstances", pretty much meaning aggravated robbery.

... but if he had any confidence that the police would show up and handle the situation then he wouldn't have gone outside to defend his house and himself

Except he didn't "go outside to defend his house and himself". He announced his intention was to kill.

[CrashG]

I agree he went a little overboard in his actions, but at the same time I wouldn't object to someone like him being my neighbor. :yes:

Also, had they not been robbing from someones house they wouldn't have gotten shot and be dead now. ;)

He should've gotten some jail time for shooting them, but again had they not been stealing from someone they'd still be walking, talking, and breathing right now.

[sweetsam]

Death for robbery is harsh. But fear can be a very useful tool in preventing crime. If death was the penalty for robbery how many people do you think will try that ? Besides if somebody still tried it then they sure knew what was going to them so who's fault is it ?

I do not have a problem if a guy threatening got killed because of an act of self defense by a victim. In this case the man walked outside and put himself in danger while he could have very well stayed inside and been safe. Besides he announces his intentions before stepping out. Although his ultimate goal was right the way he went about achieving it was unfortunately incorrect.

In my opinion everyone should have a weapon that will very quickly disable a person but not kill them a la bear tranquilizer. Had the man used something like that the criminals would be alive and in jail and he would have safeguarded his neighbors belongings without getting in to trouble.

Edited July 4, 2008 by sweetsam

[Eis]

You would have a point... except for the whole 911 call where he states he is heading out specifically to shoot and kill them. :|

So what if some of the things he says don't match up or are a little bit extreme. I don't always make complete sense or say something I mean to say when my heart's racing so fast I feel like I ran a mile either. You're evaluating him without understanding him or his situation at all, which is exactly what I was originally talking about.

It's very easy to judge when you have no idea what it's like. He did what he felt was right, and that's all we can expect out of anybody. If this man went to prison it wouldn't be because he intentionally murdered somebody, it would be because he made the wrong choice. Which, surprisingly enough, is a very easy thing to do in the spur of the moment. I don't condemn people for that.

[markwolfe Veteran]

^^^ I didn't say that he didn't think it was right. Well, I am sure if you asked him (or any other sane person) they would say that it was NOT right to kill someone for robbery.

Yet that is what he said he was going to do.

So, now we have an accepted penalty of "death" for the crime of "robbery". I suppose no one ought to steal a candy bar from a local store, eh? ;)

At some point you have to agree that the punishment (two executions, one after the other) does not fit the crime (breaking & entering, theft).

Edited July 4, 2008 by markjensen

[Calum Veteran]

No burglar deserves death though!

Well, no innocent man deserves to have his house burgled by two selfish, unethical, untrustworthy, useless to society, PR**KS!!!

I think they got exactly what they deserved! Burglars cause misery to people daily! It's not just a case of having 'a couple of ya things nicked'. Some burglars steal sentimental property, some of them beat up the homeowners of which they are robbing (e.g. only today I saw in the paper this helpless, defenseless, pensioner got beaten badly by burglars! :angry:).

At the end of the day, if a person's possesions are stolen, it can cause a lot of grief & misery for that person. I'm sure you would be devastated if your laptop/PC/Mac & all your backups were stolen wouldn't you? Your music, pictures, videos, uni/school work, documents relating to your career, etc would be gone. No more! If that happened to me, I would want the people who did it to be extrememly hurt!

If I had to, for self defense, etc, then I would definately kill a person who is robbing my house, because they have no right to be there & it is my hardearned possesions been taken by some selfish ******!

It's ridiculous to suggest they don't deserve what they got for the misery they cause to others!

[Calum Veteran]

At some point you have to agree that the punishment (two executions, one after the other) does not fit the crime (breaking & entering, theft).

Again, I believe I must mention the misery & vast emotional pain (& sometimes physical pain) a robbery can cause to a person.

Some burglars will hurt their victims; others will take sentimental/valuable items which they have no right to do! The items are no theirs', why should they take them!?

Referring to your comment about 'taking a candy bar from a store'...: that is also very wrong & needs to be punished. How do you punish a crime like that? Yes, murder for something that small is very harsh (but tbh it he/she shouldn't be taking it in the first place, so they would deserve it), but prison for a fair amount of time should do the trick!

If you let people off, or give them a light punishment, they are never going to learn!

In my eyes, the burglars who were shot dead got exactly what they deserved for the misery & unnecessary pain they cause to others! Good riddance to them! They are obviously useless to society if they have to stoop so low as to emotionally torture innocent people!!!

[BoJo]

Wow. I thought the tape I heard was a hoax. I heard this 911 call online.

Before people start talking about intent etc. if you had listened to the tape, you would know that he was scared for his life etc. He thought that the were coming for him next and didn't know whether they were armed.

I feel sorry for him and them.

On the one hand I think that burglars deserve what they get, and wish for laws like this in england, but on the other you have to pity those driven to crime.

[ambushed]

Again, I believe I must mention the misery & vast emotional pain (& sometimes physical pain) a robbery can cause to a person.

Some burglars will hurt their victims; others will take sentimental/valuable items which they have no right to do! The items are no theirs', why should they take them!?

Referring to your comment about 'taking a candy bar from a store'...: that is also very wrong & needs to be punished. How do you punish a crime like that? Yes, murder for something that small is very harsh (but tbh it he/she shouldn't be taking it in the first place, so they would deserve it), but prison for a fair amount of time should do the trick!

If you let people off, or give them a light punishment, they are never going to learn!

In my eyes, the burglars who were shot dead got exactly what they deserved for the misery & unnecessary pain they cause to others! Good riddance to them! They are obviously useless to society if they have to stoop so low as to emotionally torture innocent people!!!

While harsh, you just effectively said you wouldn't object to the death penalty for stealing a 50 cent candy bar. Wow! Would you condone execution for speeding, copyright infringement or a host of other petty crime because, well, they shouldn't have done it in the first place? Im sure it would see a solid reduction in "crime", but at what cost to society and otherwise good people.

Im also not about to consider theft, sentimental items or not, emotional torture that warrants death. I can think of far worse ways to be "emotionally tortured".

Wow. I thought the tape I heard was a hoax. I heard this 911 call online.

Before people start talking about intent etc. if you had listened to the tape, you would know that he was scared for his life etc. He thought that the were coming for him next and didn't know whether they were armed.

I feel sorry for him and them.

On the one hand I think that burglars deserve what they get, and wish for laws like this in england, but on the other you have to pity those driven to crime.

I listened to the tape and i don't believe for a moment he sounded as if he was scared for his life. He said half a dozen times he was going to go outside with the intent to kill and sounded pretty calm about it to me.

[Calum Veteran]

While harsh, you just effectively said you wouldn't object to the death penalty for stealing a 50 cent candy bar. Wow! Would you condone execution for speeding, copyright infringement or a host of other petty crime because, well, they shouldn't have done it in the first place? Im sure it would see a solid reduction in "crime", but at what cost to society and otherwise good people.

Im also not about to consider theft, sentimental items or not, emotional torture that warrants death. I can think of far worse ways to be "emotionally tortured".

Yes, you're right. I did, in essence, condone the death penalty for somebody stealing a 50 cent candy bar... however, I also said, a petty theft like that should really only get a very long prison sentence because it is not really causing much misery to anyone. If a person got the death penalty (or got shot) for stealing a 50 cent candy bar, however, that wouldn't bother me, I wouldn't care & I would think that it serves them right, in a way, because they shouldn't steal, even something as little as that.

You said "...but at what cost to society and otherwise good people." Who are the "otherwise good people"? You cannot say burglars & anyone who does another hurtful crime (with intent) good people, can you? Anybody who steals anything in my mind is untrustworthy & evil. They are useless to society, Some person said they feel sorry for people who are "driven to crime & theft". No one is ever driven to crime & theft. It is their choice. If they cannot afford to buy something, then they should find ways, or, they should do what a lot of tramps/bums do & beg - it is better than stealing.

As you can tell, I feel very strongly about stealing & theft, as well as other hurtful crimes like rape, murder, pedophilia, GBH, etc. I'm worried that if somebody robbed my house, they could hurt me, or they could steal sentimental possessions, or they could steal my laptop & back-up hardrive - meaning all of the files & folders I have spent time accumulating & organizing will be gone for good... all my music, all my videos, all my pictures & all my university pictures. A person who does a dreadful crime like that deserves the death penalty in my eyes.

Prison is pointless as it is a waste of tax payers money & people get let out earlier than they should (with many re-offending). Prisons can also be very lenient. I know of one prisoner I was reading about who got a TV & everything. They shouldn't! If prison is that nice to them, they are more likely to re-offend. If anything, they should stay in thier stone cell with a stone toilet & a very uncomfortable bed. The fact that they have offended in that way once before, means they should get the death penalty. It serves them right! Get them off the face of this earth as they are useless to society & some of them have murdered/hurt innocent people.

You say what will the death penalty do to society? Well what does that mean? The only thing it can do is stop people wanting to commit hurtful crimes, can't it? It would be good to society. I mean, I only mean the death penalty should be used in cases where it is 100% proven that the criminal has done the crime -like in this case of robbery. If the homeowner had shot them so they were just injured before the police came, then you would know for sure it was them who did it.

[markwolfe Veteran]

Yes, you're right. I did, in essence, condone the death penalty for somebody stealing a 50 cent candy bar... however, I also said, a petty theft like that should really only get a very long prison sentence because it is not really causing much misery to anyone. If a person got the death penalty (or got shot) for stealing a 50 cent candy bar, however, that wouldn't bother me, I wouldn't care & I would think that it serves them right, in a way, because they shouldn't steal, even something as little as that.

Ok, let's play a little game I call The Value of Human Life.

A toddler grabs a 50 cent candy bar at the checkout line while mommy is getting the cash out of her wallet. That kid's life is worth something under $0.50 to you, right? Execution time.

Ok, what if it was a 5 cent mint. You know the ones they sell individually. Is that life worth something between a nickel and 50 cents? Or is it worth even less than a nickel?

[C_Guy]

I'm sure you would be devastated if your laptop/PC/Mac & all your backups were stolen wouldn't you? Your music, pictures, videos, uni/school work, documents relating to your career, etc would be gone. No more! If that happened to me, I would want the people who did it to be extrememly hurt!

Hurt, not killed. Besides, if your "precious" data was lost here's an idea to consider now: BACKUP. If my computer was ever stolen here's what I do. 1. Make an insurance claim. 2. Get a new computer. 3. Restore from backup.

That inconvenience and very small cost would make me absolutely angry but it doesn't give me any notion that it's worth taking anyone's life. It gives me the notion that I have to be responsible for the unknowns in life and take precautions.

[-Vivicidal-]

The should have locked them up in his basement and tourtured them.

[iconboy]

Yes, you're right. I did, in essence, condone the death penalty for somebody stealing a 50 cent candy bar... however, I also said, a petty theft like that should really only get a very long prison sentence because it is not really causing much misery to anyone. If a person got the death penalty (or got shot) for stealing a 50 cent candy bar, however, that wouldn't bother me, I wouldn't care & I would think that it serves them right, in a way, because they shouldn't steal, even something as little as that.

You said "...but at what cost to society and otherwise good people." Who are the "otherwise good people"? You cannot say burglars & anyone who does another hurtful crime (with intent) good people, can you? Anybody who steals anything in my mind is untrustworthy & evil. They are useless to society, Some person said they feel sorry for people who are "driven to crime & theft". No one is ever driven to crime & theft. It is their choice. If they cannot afford to buy something, then they should find ways, or, they should do what a lot of tramps/bums do & beg - it is better than stealing.

As you can tell, I feel very strongly about stealing & theft, as well as other hurtful crimes like rape, murder, pedophilia, GBH, etc. I'm worried that if somebody robbed my house, they could hurt me, or they could steal sentimental possessions, or they could steal my laptop & back-up hardrive - meaning all of the files & folders I have spent time accumulating & organizing will be gone for good... all my music, all my videos, all my pictures & all my university pictures. A person who does a dreadful crime like that deserves the death penalty in my eyes.

Prison is pointless as it is a waste of tax payers money & people get let out earlier than they should (with many re-offending). Prisons can also be very lenient. I know of one prisoner I was reading about who got a TV & everything. They shouldn't! If prison is that nice to them, they are more likely to re-offend. If anything, they should stay in thier stone cell with a stone toilet & a very uncomfortable bed. The fact that they have offended in that way once before, means they should get the death penalty. It serves them right! Get them off the face of this earth as they are useless to society & some of them have murdered/hurt innocent people.

You say what will the death penalty do to society? Well what does that mean? The only thing it can do is stop people wanting to commit hurtful crimes, can't it? It would be good to society. I mean, I only mean the death penalty should be used in cases where it is 100% proven that the criminal has done the crime -like in this case of robbery. If the homeowner had shot them so they were just injured before the police came, then you would know for sure it was them who did it.

wow. :|

[Darksoft]

Good for the old man. Premediated or not, they were stealing and they were in his property. Good riddance scumbags!

edit: typo.

[Victor V.]

They would not be coming out of your neighbors house with sacks of stoeln items though would they?

There's a special disease of which I can't recall the name that forces people to steal items even when they don't need it. Kleptomania I guess.

What, then?

Anyway,I won't comment, I don't know what exactly happened. But if it was luck that they were burglars, and even worse, criminal ones, then the guy was definitely wrong.

[spike232]

well this makes a pleasant change from story's about burglars who slip while climbing in threw a window they just broke and end up sueing the home owner for compensation.