official Team Fortress 2

[ViZioN]

So is everyone following http://www.teamfortress.com/scoutupdate/

Pretty much yeah! Hopefully there should be another update soon. I don't know what to expect at all. I've not looked at the steam forums to see ideas that people have posted for the scout.

[Dance.]

In TF2, almost all damage done to players is modified based on the distance from the player to the enemy who did the damage. There are several reasons why this is done, but the general purpose of it is that it makes close combat resolve faster than long range combat, giving approaching players more time to make tactical decisions (like whether to engage or retreat). The ramp centers around the 512 units (roughly 40 feet) range, and linearly remaps damage done from 150% at 0 units down to 50% at >1024 units. So if you're fighting someone closer than 512 units, you're doing extra damage.

Sticky bombs have an additional complexity on top of this: they use the distance modification for the first 5 seconds of their life, and then turn it off. This is because it's generally a dual purpose weapon: used offensively like a rocket launcher, and defensively to create traps. The 5 second rule essentially means distance matters in the offensive mode, but not at all in the defensive. So if you're a trap laying Demoman, you don't need to get near the stickies when you set them off.

So, yesterdays update reduced the amount of bonus damage that the stickies earned at close range during that first 5 seconds of their life. Their old distance-based damage ramp range was 150% -> 50% variance around the base 120 damage, and the update reduced that to 115% -> 50%. Here's a handy graph with the details, and it shows how the remap only affects damage closer than 512 units.

Why did we do this? We didn't think that the Demoman was overpowered at medium & long ranges, where the charge up time provides an existing penalty. If we did a straight damage reduction across the board, we would affect that. In addition, by weakening the Demoman specifically at short range, we've created a weakness that enemies can take advantage of in combat, and makes the Demoman wary of specific enemy classes (like the Scout and Pyro).

Sheesh, I didn't realize that the demo nerf was so huge. Demo is my main class (for scrims) and now it's going to be a lot harder dealing with those pesky scouts.

[Mathachew Veteran]

Hrmf. I'm iffy on that change. Far too many times have I gone one on one with a scout or medic and lost because they simply wouldn't die, even though I hit them three or four times with my stickies that hurt them and myself; this happened a lot before this change came, so it looks like I'm going to suck even more at close range with the Demo.

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

They're trying to nerf the secondary weapon because too many people were relying on it as their primary weapon, and it wasn't fair that they were able to fling them around and do full damage when the other classes all suffered a damage drop off.

Hopefully this will stop the demomen just spamming stickies, they can really make it impossible to progress in a map.

[Minimoose]

Pipe bombs are so powerful anyway there is no need to use stickies as a primary, unless you can't aim, but if you can't aim in an fps your pretty screwed anyway. Soldier is my main but I play demoman when i want to relax and take down the whole opposing team on a public. In 6v6 scouts we're already pretty powerful vs demomen, so I suppose this update is giving them a slight disadvantage, saying that though, all classes have a counter class and demoman didn't have a class which was awesome against it ;)

[sundayx Veteran]

I just thought that being able to destroy the stickies were sufficient in decreasing the power of the weapon already, now reducing damage even more would mean more emphasis on the pipe bombs, which is powerful but lacking in versatility, maybe increase the cartridge to 6?

[Minimoose]

I just thought that being able to destroy the stickies were sufficient in decreasing the power of the weapon already, now reducing damage even more would mean more emphasis on the pipe bombs, which is powerful but lacking in versatility, maybe increase the cartridge to 6?

Nope, it would mean they would be able to spam far too much with pipes. It would also make it too easy to spam down sentries, since you can already do it with 4, using 6 would just annihilate everything in the area. Destroying stickies isnt the problem, due to most demomen using it as a primary by blowing up the stickies while they are still in the air, now they do less damage if the demo's do this, therefore making them less powerful. It's too hard to shoot the stickies while they are in the air anyway so stickies being destructible is only useful when the demo is trying to take down sentries or is camping.

Saying that though, if the demo is good, when camping he will just put the stickies in a decent place, making them just as powerful as before.

This just means that demomen aren't the 'I'll take down the whole enemy team by myself without a medic' class anymore, they actually have to work with the team like all the other classes.

I really don't see the problem with the update, as a demo you can still get a 10 k/d ratio if you want and you can lock down half the map with stickies, you just have to use the team more now, which is the point. The demoman was completely overpowered, now he has one weakness and everyone complains.

[Athernar]

Looks like they're pushing out today's news right now, managed to grab this link:

http://www.teamfortress.com/scoutupdate/wa...nd_junction.htm

Edit: Site just went up, it's the pack's complimentary community maps. arena_watchtower and cp_junction.

Edited February 18, 2009 by Athernar

[ViZioN]

Haha was just about to post this Athernar, you beat me too it! :laugh: Yeah I guessed when the site was timing out that they were updating the page.

The two new maps look cool! :)

[+Frank B. Subscriber²]

arena_watchtower is going to be a major sniper fest...

[ViZioN]

arena_watchtower is going to be a major sniper fest...

Yep looks like it. Just have to see how it plays. The screenies look cool though

[Srugie Veteran]

Yep looks like it. Just have to see how it plays. The screenies look cool though

Yeah I look forward it playing it along with the other Arena map they're releasing.

[Denis W. Veteran]

There's an update that fixes an exploit. Not sure what it was, but looks like anyone who tried that exploit is getting punished thus:

It saddens me that despite my best efforts to instruct and better you, some of you insist on finding new ways to fail.

We have sounded the alert and released a quick fix for an exploit that some unscrupulous players were using to wield items on invalid classes. I have considered an appropriate punishment for the good-for-nothings responsible for this horrendous breach of conduct. Death, of course - but death is too good for disappointments such as these. Instead, their unlockable items have been removed for a month.

To the majority of you who did not see fit to cheat, you have my congratulations: I await the countless other ways you will inevitably disappoint me in the future.

Yours,

TF Announcer

Source

[Mike]

Apparently it allowed players to give them weapons that the class wasn't meant to have, eg a scout with the soldier's rocket launcher

[Scirwode]

I never even noticed :blink: .

Scirwode

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

I just thought that being able to destroy the stickies were sufficient in decreasing the power of the weapon already, now reducing damage even more would mean more emphasis on the pipe bombs, which is powerful but lacking in versatility, maybe increase the cartridge to 6?

That's what they want, they want more emphasis on the pipe bombs.

The demoman is the only class with both primary and secondary weapons firing explosives (which does make sense), but the problem is that the sticky bombs were much more powerful than the pipe bombs, so there was no reason to use the pipe bombs.

Also, it's not that easy to break the stickies, it's not a "one hit break" situation, you still have to use a bit of ammo.

[+shift. MVC]

Shotgun works wonders for me. Especially those groups of 3-4 stickies.

[Dance.]

Anyway the new maps look good. I hope the CP map isn't a demo-sticky-around-each-wall bonanza.

[sundayx Veteran]

Wow I'm having ridiculous ping after the update. Was there anything changed that influenced it?

[Dance.]

Nope, still the same ping. Try resetting your router etc?

[undu]

BONK ENERGY DRINK

Runnin? rings around all them molasses-slow dummies out there on the battle- field is thirsty frickin? work. But when it comes to quenchin? that thirst, only one thermonuclear thirst detonator packs all the ?Atomic Punch? you?ll ever need. Bonk! is fulla radiation, which as we all know is pretty great for givin? people superpowers. Just one can?ll blast ya into a few-second rush of radioactive energy so powerful you?ll be dodgin? bullets like they ain?t even there!

Note: Bonk! contains several hundred times the daily recommended allowance of sugar. After the beneficial effects of the radiation wear off, drinkers have reported experiencing feelings of lethargy that can last several seconds. Reading this sentence absolves Bonk! of any liability for killing sprees inspired by or deaths resulting from the ingestion of Bonk! Enjoy Bonk! responsibly? Or by the case!

http://www.teamfortress.com/scoutupdate/energydrink.htm

Looks great for g:)ting through sentries :)

Edited February 19, 2009 by undu

[Pajter]

The servers are getting hammered at the moment. Pictures aren't loading for me yet. I did manage to read the description though. Looks awesome!

BONK!

[Mathachew Veteran]

Bah. Why Valve can't release this earlier in the day so as to ease the overwhelming traffic is beyond me, but I'll see it eventually.

[Denis W. Veteran]

Wait a sec:

What map is that in the background? It looks like two Payload train tracks hoisted up on two wooden ramps. That's definitely not Goldrush or Badwater Basin.

[Mathachew Veteran]

Wait a sec:

What map is that in the background? It looks like two Payload train tracks hoisted up on two wooden ramps. That's definitely not Goldrush or Badwater Basin.

Definitely looks new, and it looks like it's a competitive goldrush because both tracks are colored. Interesting.