[Updated 8/04] Apple Sues Unauthorized Clone Maker Psystar

[MrChainsaw]

So what's the latest new on this, did Apple won or lost.

[Richard Hammond]

Probably wont get any news for a while yet. Im guessing Apple has better lawyers and more money to throw into this case so i think we all already know the outcome.

[jesseinsf]

What's your point? Of course they use the same gpu/cpu/memory, but you can't count out the external hardware of an Apple computer. The appeal of a mac doesn't come from its performance, but from its design and operating system--that's it.

My point is performance and not Aesthetics.

[giga Veteran]

My point is performance and not Aesthetics.

What does my original quote have anything to do with performance? I was commentating on the business model of Apple and Microsoft?

[Mikee99]

Leopard is by far faster than Tiger. Improvements in Spotlight, Finder, application caching, disk i/o, and optimization. Consider Siracusa from Ars: http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/mac-os-x-10-5.ars/15

Giga, while it may be true that some users will see a performance improvement, that is not the case for all macs. If Leopard was faster than Tiger on the same hardware, then they wouldn't completely alienate entire models of Macs. There are many macs that run Tiger quite well, but are not capable of running Leopard. IIRC, Apple themselves said that one of the reasons why they are not allowing older macs to run Leopard was because it would run too slow on them.

I have seen macs running Leopard quite sluggishly, and if Tiger was installed, it would most certainly run faster.

I hear a lot of people say that Apple's hardware has a lot of quality. Well, as with everything, your mileage will vary. I personally own an iBook G3 that has logic board issues. There is literally nothing that can be done to fix it. The case is all warped, because I had to place a large stint over the GPU (that's the supposed fix for the iBook G3 Logic Board issues). And now, the current model of MacBook Pro's are having an issue with vertical striping on the LED displays: http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1627678 That link is the continuation to the first thread regarding that issue. The first thread was closed because it got too big (seriously). The MBP is not the only notebook on the market with LED displays, but is really the only notebook on the market that exhibits the issue, and it's also one of the most expensive notebooks on the market. And so far, after being on the market for almost 7 months, Apple has done virtually nothing to resolve the problem.

I would personally love to purchase a MacBook Pro because of the sleekness of the hardware, and the ability to run OS X and Windows side-by-side. However, given all the problems people have had with their MBPs, I don't want another iBook G3 on my hands. That, and the fact that I can currently buy a Dell M1530 with better specs and pay less for it.

[giga Veteran]

The general consensus is that if you have a >1ghz G4 with 1Gb ram or above, upgrade it to Leopard and you will notice speed improvements in some areas. (I can't imagine how anyone can stand the Tiger spotlight these days where indexing takes ages and results aren't instant) Yes, some things might get a bit more beachballs or dock bounces--but that's attributed to more aggresive disk caching and such.

There's no doubt at all that some of the older macs won't run Leopard well (thus the limitation to install it on slower G4s and G3s), but that's not to say it won't make the more recent G4s and higher run faster based on several improvements in the system from 10.4. If anything would make it run slower, would be macs with lower end GPUs such as low end iBooks or eMacs. Hard drive size can play a big factor as well--especially the ones with 30 and 40gb drives where a Leopard install with full printer drivers can take up 1/4 of it.

As for the the MBP issue, consider the amount of Macbook Pros sold each day, then the amount of lemons reported. People often report issues when there is a problem, but not when it is fine. I wouldn't have any hesitation recommending you buy one even with the LCD issue that some are having--several of my colleagues are running the latest 10.5.4 flawlessly on their MBPs.

Though I would sitll hold off because new models are coming soon. ;)

[Cormier6083]

OS X's Journaling helps. Its not a day/night like difference but it certainly helps. Are you going to nitpick my post just to prove me wrong? :huh:

You obviously don't know Joel. :p

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

Dont you have to install Bootcamp before you can install any Operating system, dont you have to have osx/bootcamp installed to boot to the os?

If Windows natively supported EFI without Apple having to provide workarounds, you probably wouldn't need bootcamp.

[IceBreakerG]

I thought the 64 bit version of Vista supported EFI?

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

SP1 x64 supports EFI, but doesn't work with the EFI on Macs (Mac EFI is 32Bit, Vista x64 SP1 requires a 64Bit EFI)

And even then, I screwed up with Bootcamp, you don't need it to boot Windows, the system out of the box can boot Windows (Since they provide BIOS emulation in EFI), Bootcamp is a partition manager (And I think does a driver disk)

[ViperAFK]

The general consensus is that if you have a >1ghz G4 with 1Gb ram or above, upgrade it to Leopard and you will notice speed improvements in some areas. (I can't imagine how anyone can stand the Tiger spotlight these days where indexing takes ages and results aren't instant) Yes, some things might get a bit more beachballs or dock bounces--but that's attributed to more aggresive disk caching and such.

There's no doubt at all that some of the older macs won't run Leopard well (thus the limitation to install it on slower G4s and G3s), but that's not to say it won't make the more recent G4s and higher run faster based on several improvements in the system from 10.4. If anything would make it run slower, would be macs with lower end GPUs such as low end iBooks or eMacs. Hard drive size can play a big factor as well--especially the ones with 30 and 40gb drives where a Leopard install with full printer drivers can take up 1/4 of it.

As for the the MBP issue, consider the amount of Macbook Pros sold each day, then the amount of lemons reported. People often report issues when there is a problem, but not when it is fine. I wouldn't have any hesitation recommending you buy one even with the LCD issue that some are having--several of my colleagues are running the latest 10.5.4 flawlessly on their MBPs.

Though I would sitll hold off because new models are coming soon. ;)

Well the imac I was using was a 400mhz g3 with 512 mb so I guess that explians why it was slower than tiger.

[giga Veteran]

Well the imac I was using was a 400mhz g3 with 512 mb so I guess that explians why it was slower than tiger.

Leopard doesn't even support the G3 unless someone circumvented the install.

[winrez]

If Windows natively supported EFI without Apple having to provide workarounds, you probably wouldn't need bootcamp.

Intels "Standard" EFI which was developed with the help of Microsoft in 1999 includes a feature to emulate a BIOS which then Apple then removed to restrict the platform to OSX only. It is only after early adopters of the Intel Macs and The News Media that Apple decided to put the BIOS emulation back into their modified EFI with bootcamp

I have a Gateway from 2003 that has EFI and will run any Windows OS you throw at it

(It was always meant for the switch to 64-bit but I believe that plan went down with the Itanium)

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

Apple didn't include BIOS emulation since their OS didn't use the BIOS, they later added it back.

[jesseinsf]

What does my original quote have anything to do with performance? I was commentating on the business model of Apple and Microsoft?

When allot of people hear the word hardware, they are thinking of the hardware that drives the performance of the system and not the attached hardware like printers and monitors. So I just misunderstood what you were trying to say.

[Eric Veteran]

The "experience" everyone is talking about is being able to pull their notebook out everyday and have everything work so seamlessly, they don't even have to think about lots of things that you would have to with a windows notebook. For example, with a pc notebook, if you had a wireless mouse, you would have to turn it on and off every time you put your notebook away or took it out. With a mac, every time you sleep or wake your notebook (if you have a mighty mouse), it turns the mouse on and off for you. Also, I have been AMAZINGLY impressed with how easy and quick the sleep is on my Macbook. Shut the lid and its already sleeping. Open it up, and it's already awake and ready to use.

So... If I do a web search for "mac problems" I will get zero hits?