Microsoft's Mojave experiment backfiring?

[Hurmoth]

:no:

UAC prompts do NOT "steal focus" from the user's task. If the operating system cannot determine that the prompt was generated from the foreground window the current user is using, we will alert the user with a highlighted operation in the taskbar that an application is requesting elevated privileges. The user can select to elevate at his or her convenience and not be disrupted by an unplanned application elevation.

http://blogs.msdn.com/uac/pages/744459.aspx

What the user stated was still true though. He didn't mention whether or not it was background or foreground processes. What he stated was that it halts you from doing anything else. If I open up pcAnywhere in Vista, it halts me from doing anything else with UAC turned on. With UAC turned off, I can be doing other things while pcAnywhere loads. It still takes an extra step that isn't needed. Grant it, pcAnywhere (the version we use at work) wasn't designed for Vista, but the point remains the same.

[7Dash8]

What the user stated was still true though. He didn't mention whether or not it was background or foreground processes. What he stated was that it halts you from doing anything else. If I open up pcAnywhere in Vista, it halts me from doing anything else with UAC turned on. With UAC turned off, I can be doing other things while pcAnywhere loads. It still takes an extra step that isn't needed. Grant it, pcAnywhere (the version we use at work) wasn't designed for Vista, but the point remains the same.

But the point doesn't make any sense. UAC can be configured to disable the secure desktop and prompt, but maintain things like protected mode for IE7. UAC is very customizable. But ok the average user is not going to know how to customize it, IF an average user really finds UAC that annoying or useless, they can simply switch it off permanently in under 3 seconds. Then they're back to the same situation as Windows XP. In other words UAC is an extra layer of defense which if used wisely can be of great benefit, or you can just switch it off. It's better to have the option to use it for extra security than not have the option at all.

Having some numbnuts complaining about how UAC makes it hard for them to work is just plain garbage. Even if you're running older software and it requires admin rights to launch, that's one button you have to click to continue. The reason why Mojave has captured so much interest is because anyone who works in IT will tell you that the average user is as stupid as the people portrayed in the video. The average user likes to think they know a lot more than they actually do, quoting how so and so told them this or that. That's how these morons wind up making such a mess on pretty much every OS they ever work on. Talk to a help desk guy at any organization and they'll tell you the same.

Also since when is the main aim of software designers to dumb down their software to the point where someone with absolutely no knowledge can do everything on the software without any effort or thought? What are we designing software for chimps now? Is it a case of saying that having just one button on a mouse is better than having two because two buttons gives more choice and hence is more confusing to the average user??

[Mikee99]

Unbelievable. Microsoft finally does something ingenious with their Vista marketing, and all the Negative Nancy vista haters just have to come out under their rock...

[Hurmoth]

But ok the average user is not going to know how to customize it, IF an average user really finds UAC that annoying or useless, they can simply switch it off permanently in under 3 seconds.

But that's the thing, how many average users know how to turn it off? Most have problems realizing that the Start button is now the Orb. I know that sounds crazy, but I'm in charge of 300 PCs at my work and we've been doing pilot tests and the average user is all confused with some of the simplest things.

[Denis W. Veteran]

So in a few words, all it is is the same geeky Vista bashers all up in arms over the potential threat of their FUD campaign backfiring.

They quoted an Apple fan-bot?

Yeah. Why the hell did they quote that (censored, since he's also a member here)?

You can argue that Apple's Get a Mac ads are also backfiring, as any geek will tell you that they're full of falsehoods, but hey, that's marketing nowadays.

It won't be too long before they run out of things to poke fun at Vista for.

[Prince Charming]

It was a canned test. You can't really expect the results to be honest. If you show unaware people just the chocolate side of things, no surprise they will leave positive feedback. Let them deal with it on their own, frustration will arise. Seen it often enough. And we're talking about the generic dumbass user here, so don't even start with things like "Have him turn UAC off" and **** like that.

It doesn't matter if it was a canned test - the Mojave Experiment wasn't to prove that Vista was a completely perfect OS without any problems or flaws whatsoever. It wasn't even meant to show that UAC was unobtrusive to the user (which it actually is once a system is set up). The point of the Mojave Experiment was to demonstrate that the majority of people who will voice an opinion 'Vista is bad' are voicing that opinion based on knowing absolutely nothing. If these people who previously thought Vista was bad but liked what they were used clearly didn't even recognise what they thought was bad...point proven. Excellently. It's not an attempt to demonstrate the simplicity or brilliance of Vista, but to dispel alot of the pointless Vista hate and fud that's floating around the place. Which is exactly what Microsoft needs to do before they can start an ad campaign - you can't advertise a product to people who think it's bad without any reason.

It's not about proving positive feedback, it's about demonstrating that most people who dislike Vista don't even know why - to suggest to people who previously thought it was bad (for no reason) to try it out.

[zhangm Supervisor]

It won't be too long before they run out of things to poke fun at Vista for.

That seems...doubtful. You can bash something forever if you're willing to lie about it.

You'll be amazed at what people can be trained to believe without any first-hand experience. The world is, after all, flat.

[toadeater]

You'll be amazed at what people can be trained to believe without any first-hand experience. The world is, after all, flat.

Going by that metaphor, it's going to take Vista a couple of thousand years to become successful. Yes, blame all the ignorant billions of people out there, rather than Microsoft's shoddy product...

Besides, there are supposedly millions of people using Vista--word of mouth gets around. Sales have not increased post-SP1, why is that?

Before you comment on sales, read this:

HP has undermined Microsoft's claims of healthy Vista sales by claiming that the majority of Vista licences are sold with machines pre-loaded with Windows XP.

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/215502/hp-wind...ista-sales.html

[ViperAFK]

Going by that metaphor, it's going to take Vista a couple of thousand years to become successful. Yes, blame all the ignorant billions of people out there, rather than Microsoft's shoddy product...

Besides, there are supposedly millions of people using Vista--word of mouth gets around. Sales have not increased post-SP1, why is that?

Before you comment on sales, read this:

HP has undermined Microsoft's claims of healthy Vista sales by claiming that the majority of Vista licences are sold with machines pre-loaded with Windows XP.

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/215502/hp-wind...ista-sales.html

lol word of mouth, have you tried telling someone who is convinced vista sucks without ever trying it is good? No they are stuck in their ways and refuse to believe anything you say.

[redfish]

Or that if you wanted Vista to work with your existing software applications, you'd probably need to hunt around on the Web for a workaround?

What software applications are these ? The only applications with problems are things like anti-virus programs; you don't need to hunt around, just get an upgrade. On the other hand, when a new version of MacOS is released many normal applications break.

"UAC's interface is annoying. It dims your screen and halts everything and only allows you click on that thing. Yes, it's great security wise, but I have tons of work going on, and basically I have to halt all work to go ahead and figure out what program is wanting me to accept again. (I mean I could just go ahead and click ACCEPT without reading what program is running, but that'd lose the point of UAC,)" pointed out BetaNews reader bsf.

Why would a UAC prompt come up when you have tons of work going on? What is this guy doing? What the hell? UAC prompts don't usually pop up out of nowhere, and if they do, its because of malware, in which case you should be glad the prompt popped up.

How about hardware support for Vista? Some focus group members commented during the sessions that Vista seemed "faster" or "easier" than they'd expected. But did the focus group leaders tell them that, in order to run Vista smoothly, they'll probably need to buy new PCs outfitted with a lot more RAM?

Did anyone tell the author that the test was done a PC with 2GB RAM, which a lot of Vista-bashers say "isn't enough"? I'm running on a single core system with 2GB RAM, and I run into dozens of Vista-basher articles which claim that Vista should run like a rock on my system. It runs perfectly fast. There are never benchmarks to back up such stupid statements.

Is it really a surprise that Vista-bashers come up with their same reasons to bash the Mojave experiment? This isn't meant to convince them they're wrong, its meant to convince the public not to listen to them.

[7Dash8]

Is it really a surprise that Vista-bashers come up with their same reasons to bash the Mojave experiment? This isn't meant to convince them they're wrong, its meant to convince the public not to listen to them.

QFT

[39 Thieves]

Going by that metaphor, it's going to take Vista a couple of thousand years to become successful. Yes, blame all the ignorant billions of people out there, rather than Microsoft's shoddy product...

Besides, there are supposedly millions of people using Vista--word of mouth gets around. Sales have not increased post-SP1, why is that?

Before you comment on sales, read this:

HP has undermined Microsoft's claims of healthy Vista sales by claiming that the majority of Vista licences SOLD TO BUSINESSES are sold with machines pre-loaded with Windows XP.

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/215502/hp-wind...ista-sales.html

Vista has surpassed the installed base of Linux on the desktop. Keep that in mind before you go crying failure. Fixed your statement, btw. Your welcome.

Edited August 2, 2008 by 39 Thieves

[zhangm Supervisor]

Going by that metaphor, it's going to take Vista a couple of thousand years to become successful. Yes, blame all the ignorant billions of people out there, rather than Microsoft's shoddy product...

Yes, the problem is mainly attributed to the ignorance of the general user and their tendency to blindly listen to anti-Microsoft zealots who take every opportunity to badmouth the company.

[4CxbqFxVnstmA Veteran]

In OS X, I've only gotten the prompt when I install something (so I already know what it is being installed) and when I update the OS. Other than that, I've never seen it.

In Vista you get it a lot more than that. Like when accessing Computer Manager; you shouldn't need it just to access Computer Manager.

The problem is that in the past Windows developers have often had their programs unnecessarily ask (and silently get) administrative privileges in Windows. Now with UAC the chickens have come home to roost. Microsoft are trying to get developers not to do this, and to adhere to the strict approach that Mac and Linux developers have been used to doing.

It was a canned test. You can't really expect the results to be honest. If you show unaware people just the chocolate side of things, no surprise they will leave positive feedback. Let them deal with it on their own, frustration will arise. Seen it often enough. And we're talking about the generic dumbass user here, so don't even start with things like "Have him turn UAC off" and **** like that.

It's not really even a 'test', or as it calls itself 'an experiment'. Though I guess by saying a 'canned test' you mean rigged, which is what it is.

It is a marketing campaign. It can't be believed in any way as being representative of 'society at large'. Their marketing team have produced an advertisement, not a scientific study. It may be that some of the bad press Vista routinely gets is undeserved, but that doesn't mean that this advertising propoganda is a good idea. It clearly is already backfiring.

[Punio4]

It's the opposite here in Croatia.

You don't need any pro-Vista propaganda. Everybody loves it, and hates Macs.

Probably the reason so, is the pricetag which is atleast twice the american one, which is also almost double the "bang for buck" you would get for a PC in the US. Summary? You can get the same bang for 1/4 of the price of a Mac.

Yet still noone mentions that, but instead resort to:

"It only has one mouse button"

"There is no software for it"

"I can't run my games on a mac"

And my favourite:

"OSX sucks"

I know, because I work at an Apple premium reseller store.

So, whatever you do, you won't change how people think about a certain product. Especially not in this way.

The way they are doing it is: "See? You were stupid to buy all that anti-microsoft propaganda"

It's like trying to prove a drunk man that he's drunk.

[gigapixels Veteran]

I stopped reading the article once I got to the fourth or fifth incredibly obvious grammatical mistake. It's poorly written, and frankly it's the only article I've seen with such an opinion, so I'm not very inclined to pay much attention to it.

[PermaSt0ne]

wow, what a terrible article. it's clearly biased and complains of problems that have long been fixed or are just a lie (you don't need 4GB of ram)

it's because of horrible articles like these that microsoft had to do this "experiment" in the first place

[EnzoFX]

I want ads where they just show what it can really do, instead of this odd propaganda.

Just push past the negativity MS, ignore those idiots.

[Crazysah]

I stopped reading the article once I got to the fourth or fifth incredibly obvious grammatical mistake. It's poorly written, and frankly it's the only article I've seen with such an opinion, so I'm not very inclined to pay much attention to it.

Exactly what I thought whule reading it.

[KiHu]

wow, what a terrible article. it's clearly biased and complains of problems that have long been fixed or are just a lie (you don't need 4GB of ram)

it's because of horrible articles like these that microsoft had to do this "experiment" in the first place

Agreed

I run Windows Vista Ultimate on 2 GB RAM

No complaints at all :)

[berz]

A photo of the author (on the right)

Well, there you have it...the woman who wrote this looks possessed!

[Cormier6083]

Oh dear Jesus, are you suggesting that those Mojave-people are real and not actors? I can put people in front of Spectrum and get them to say how it is seven times better than Vi$ta.

:x

Definitely not. I know they are actors, but that's the point. Right from the start, the commercial is lying to you because these aren't real people... it's actors! :D

[7Dash8]

Definitely not. I know they are actors, but that's the point. Right from the start, the commercial is lying to you because these aren't real people... it's actors! :D

They're not actors. Why would Microsoft pay a handful of professionals to pretend to be so ignorant when we have thousands of unpaid amateurs who do such a convincing job of it every day on forums like this one!

[portauthority]

Agreed

I run Windows Vista Ultimate on 2 GB RAM

No complaints at all :)

Fail, I run it on 512MB :p

(I seriously do on my tablet)

[toadeater]

Yes, the problem is mainly attributed to the ignorance of the general user and their tendency to blindly listen to anti-Microsoft zealots who take every opportunity to badmouth the company.

Microsoft should listen to its customers instead of wasting time on propaganda.