Microsoft's Mojave experiment backfiring?

[zhangm Supervisor]

Microsoft should listen to its customers instead of wasting time on propaganda.

Listen to them about what, exactly? The problem is that people are hesitant to try Vista because of FUD, and for a lot of people, simply trying it out firsthand lets them realize that they've been lied to about how "it's just really bad (but can't be more specific than that)". The suggestion that Microsoft listen to Vista complaints from people who have never tried the OS seems abysmally stupid.

[Echilon]

This is actually the first I've heard about it. It shows how close minded the general population is. How can you possibly rate something you've never tried? :blink:

[jesseinsf]

It did not fail....it's just the haters trying to make matters worse. For UAC....I opened all my programs and did many things with them and there was not one single prompt. The only program that prompted me was a Vista Tweaking program...Why the prompt? The prompt is because the tweaking program wants to change system configurations settings. People can ignore the prompts unless you are an administrator or parent and change the prompts to asking for credentials (Like a password). The other times I get prompts is if I want to access areas of the OS where system files are and to configure/alter system settings. Badly written programs will also cause these prompts (I don't have any of those) :) .

I've used Vista since the Betas and I really would recommend people to get a new computer with Vista installed. Though, I would also recommend that they reformat their new computers with a fresh install of vista because this would get rid of all that bloatware that PC companies preinstall on all new systems.

To me Vista gets a 9 or of 10 while Mac OS gets a 4 for lack of user friendliness. Vista is wonderful at its user friendliness.

[betasp]

To me Vista gets a 9 or of 10 while Mac OS gets a 4 for lack of user friendliness. Vista is wonderful at its user friendliness.

Whoa, hold on there? Let's not get carried away. Ever right clicked the desktop in Vista and chosen properties? Are you calling that usable? How about right click on my computer and choose manage? You want to tweak performance, so you click that on the left and behold.. the old XP manage screen. Yep, that's usability right there... adding worthless steps to the process.

[jesseinsf]

Whoa, hold on there? Let's not get carried away. Ever right clicked the desktop in Vista and chosen properties? Are you calling that usable? How about right click on my computer and choose manage? You want to tweak performance, so you click that on the left and behold.. the old XP manage screen. Yep, that's usability right there... adding worthless steps to the process.

Right clicking the desktop and choosing Properties gives a list of all the most common personal settings. It's called organizing. Learn how to organize your life and you'll see what I mean. Don't mean to be hard on you but you insist on challenging me. Now right clicking "Computer" and choosing "properties" gives info about your system and on the left is settings for advanced users who know what they are doing. All these settings can be found in Control panel where everything is neatly categorized or organized if switched to classic mode.

You quote speaks yourself:

"Providing a forum for readers to comment on news stories is like giving any moron with an Internet connection a bathroom wall to scrawl their ignorance upon."

-FARK.com

[jesseinsf]

Microsoft should listen to its customers instead of wasting time on propaganda.

do you really thing they made Vista to be against the customer's suggestions?

[betasp]

Right clicking the desktop and choosing Properties gives a list of all the most common personal settings. It's called organizing. Learn how to organize your life and you'll see what I mean. Don't mean to be hard on you but you insist on challenging me. Now right clicking "Computer" and choosing "properties" gives info about your system and on the left is settings for advanced users who know what they are doing. All these settings can be found in Control panel where everything is neatly categorized or organized if switched to classic mode.

Take a look at that list? It isn't organized. What is the difference in a theme and color and appearance? Doesn't the theme effect color and appearance, oh wait, they both do. Yea, that's usability right there. And wouldn't the color and appearance also control desktop background... but that is different I guess.

To your next point, Vista is giving a user an option, right click my computer choose properties, and also gives the same options in the Control Panel... differently. That is usability? If the new control panel was so usable, why even include the classic mode? Also, are you saying the menus for advance users don't need to be usable?

Also, if Vista was so usable, why would MS be doing usability studies after its release to figure out why users are so put off by the experience.

Oh, and don't try to make this personal and take a shot at my life. I am an IT Manager in a $4B/yr company at the age of 32. I am also an MCSE, MCDBA and CCNA. I did not get there without some organization and skill. Notice the reply... still without taking a personal shot at you. Let's stay on topic, keep defending Vista usability.

[jesseinsf]

Definitely not. I know they are actors, but that's the point. Right from the start, the commercial is lying to you because these aren't real people... it's actors! :D

That is an ignorant statement. I was there when they did it. I didn't quallify because I like Vista...and btw, they are not fake....as you can see I live in San Francisco.

[4CxbqFxVnstmA Veteran]

That is an ignorant statement. I was there when they did it. I didn't quallify because I like Vista...and btw, they are not fake....as you can see I live in San Francisco.

Whether they are actors or not, is irrelevant to the fact that it is a marketing campaign--not a genuine test or scientific 'experiment'. It is just advertising.

One thing it does show is that, even among many computer-savvy people, clever marketing campaigns do their job. :rolleyes:

[betasp]

That is an ignorant statement. I was there when they did it. I didn't quallify because I like Vista...and btw, they are not fake....as you can see I live in San Francisco.

Keep in mind, MS is controlling the software, the environment and the experience. There was nothing installed to have driver issues, or software compatibility issues. It was like going to a car dealership and being sold a used car.

[1759]

Take a look at that list? It isn't organized. What is the difference in a theme and color and appearance? Doesn't the theme effect color and appearance, oh wait, they both do. Yea, that's usability right there. And wouldn't the color and appearance also control desktop background... but that is different I guess.

To your next point, Vista is giving a user an option, right click my computer choose properties, and also gives the same options in the Control Panel... differently. That is usability? If the new control panel was so usable, why even include the classic mode? Also, are you saying the menus for advance users don't need to be usable?

Also, if Vista was so usable, why would MS be doing usability studies after its release to figure out why users are so put off by the experience.

Oh, and don't try to make this personal and take a shot at my life. I am an IT Manager in a $4B/yr company at the age of 32. I am also an MCSE, MCDBA and CCNA. I did not get there without some organization and skill. Notice the reply... still without taking a personal shot at you. Let's stay on topic, keep defending Vista usability.

It's the same thing that has been in Windows prior to Vista, just a different layout. Instead of tabs, it's links...

Themes = sounds/icons/wallpaper settings, stored in a single preferences file (like it always has been been). Colors and appearance = color and appearance.

Yeah, I know MS doesn't make things the most straightforward at times, but even then I didn't find Vista that different, other than the Control Panel, which is awful. (and I'm not an MSCE, just a BSEE/BSBio, and also use Linux/OSX).

The only times I've had a problem with Vista, is in an enterprise setting, were we had problems with some SW or UAC was preventing something SW installing properly, which was resolved by updated SW and turning off/on UAC. XP is still easier to deal with in the enterprise. but perhaps UAC would prevent some users from getting viruses.

[betasp]

It's the same thing that has been in Windows prior to Vista, just a different layout. Instead of tabs, it's links...

Themes = sounds/icons/wallpaper settings, stored in a single preferences file (like it always has been been). Colors and appearance = color and appearance.

Yeah, I know MS doesn't make things the most straightforward at times, but even then I didn't find Vista that different, other than the Control Panel, which is awful. (and I'm not an MSCE, just a BSEE/BSBio, and also use Linux/OSX).

The only times I've had a problem with Vista, is in an enterprise setting, were we had problems with some SW or UAC was preventing something SW installing properly, which was resolved by updated SW and turning off/on UAC. XP is still easier to deal with in the enterprise. but perhaps UAC would prevent some users from getting viruses.

Nice post, and I would agree with what you said. Just because it is always done that way does not make it more usable than OSX or Linux as the other poster postulated... and certainly no reason to attempt to make personal attack.

[jesseinsf]

Take a look at that list? It isn't organized. What is the difference in a theme and color and appearance? Doesn't the theme effect color and appearance, oh wait, they both do. Yea, that's usability right there. And wouldn't the color and appearance also control desktop background... but that is different I guess.

To your next point, Vista is giving a user an option, right click my computer choose properties, and also gives the same options in the Control Panel... differently. That is usability? If the new control panel was so usable, why even include the classic mode? Also, are you saying the menus for advance users don't need to be usable?

Also, if Vista was so usable, why would MS be doing usability studies after its release to figure out why users are so put off by the experience.

Oh, and don't try to make this personal and take a shot at my life. I am an IT Manager in a $4B/yr company at the age of 32. I am also an MCSE, MCDBA and CCNA. I did not get there without some organization and skill. Notice the reply... still without taking a personal shot at you. Let's stay on topic, keep defending Vista usability.

that explains your ignorance: as you said:

Oh, and don't try to make this personal and take a shot at my life. I am an IT Manager in a $4B/yr company at the age of 32. I am also an MCSE, MCDBA and CCNA. I did not get there without some organization and skill. Notice the reply... still without taking a personal shot at you. Let's stay on topic, keep defending Vista usability.

Well I work in 10B/yr worldwide company. All those certificates don't mean a thing if you don't constantly keep up-to-date with the changes of the world in technology. I take a few classes every year to keep up-to-date on everything. If you are a dedicated Mac user then none of those certificates mean a thing. Maybe there?s an exception for the CCNA.

Anyway, my argument stops here. Say what you wish.

It's the same thing that has been in Windows prior to Vista, just a different layout. Instead of tabs, it's links...

Themes = sounds/icons/wallpaper settings, stored in a single preferences file (like it always has been been). Colors and appearance = color and appearance.

Yeah, I know MS doesn't make things the most straightforward at times, but even then I didn't find Vista that different, other than the Control Panel, which is awful. (and I'm not an MSCE, just a BSEE/BSBio, and also use Linux/OSX).

The only times I've had a problem with Vista, is in an enterprise setting, were we had problems with some SW or UAC was preventing something SW installing properly, which was resolved by updated SW and turning off/on UAC. XP is still easier to deal with in the enterprise. but perhaps UAC would prevent some users from getting viruses.

Well you're use to a problem life with OSes hence Linux. And I can see why you can't understand what organizing is. Most companies using Vista worked things out by listening and communicating with MS. UAC can be configued to work with applications if you are an IT professional that knows how to use Vista in a corporate environment. Yes in the beginning there were issues with UAC but not anymore. If there is then it's a very small percentage.

Edited August 3, 2008 by jesseinsf

[betasp]

Anyway, my argument stops here. Say what you wish.

Still unable to stay on topic and still focusing on the personal, have a nice day then and good luck tomorrow at PB's.

[jesseinsf]

Still unable to stay on topic and still focusing on the personal, have a nice day then and good luck tomorrow at PB's.

wow, you sure went out of your way to get more info on me....Well, I have no means in stalking your info.

[theyarecomingforyou]

Also, if Vista was so usable, why would MS be doing usability studies after its release to figure out why users are so put off by the experience.

To improve it. Just because Big Macs sell well doesn't mean that McDonald's isn't going to research why some people don't like them.

Mojave succeeded in what it set out to do - prove that many of the people that resist Vista haven't used it and don't know what it's about. People have heard unsubstantiated claims and built up an inaccurate impression, which they themselves pass on to other people. That's not to say that Vista is perfect or that there aren't usability issues but most of the issues with Vista relate to image. I personally find Vista to be a very good operating system, though there is definite room for improvement. It's the same with OSX users - most seem to be happy with it but there is room for improvement, hence why many people upgrade to new versions when they are released.

The article in the original post is simply biased nonsense, poorly put together and poorly reasoned. I've heard similar nonsense from a friend of mine - he keeps hating on Vista because it's cool to do. This friend also calls everyone that kills him in computer games "n00bs", accuses others of hacking and in general gets irritated when people don't agree with his opinions.

[toadeater]

Listen to them about what, exactly? The problem is that people are hesitant to try Vista because of FUD,

All MS has to do is a release a Vista Live CD or image (see: Wubi) so people can try it themselves without risk. This phony test they did isn't convincing. Maybe those in the tech industry and "enthusiasts" have noticed it (and laughed at it), but it has not reached consumers or the mainstream newsmedia. Compare that with the mainstream news on the iPhone, which Apple didn't have to bribe anyone to do.

MS is looking like IBM more and more every day. MS thinks too highly of itself, the way IBM did at its peak. MS needs to stop with Ballmer's cunning plans and grand strategies and make the products people want. People want a fast, stable, robust, manageable, customizable OS that doesn't do things behind their back and track their activities. Steve Ballmer's schemes are blatantly obvious, and they will always backfire on MS.

Stop treating customers like terrorists.

Stop trying to sabotage competitors at the expensive of quality.

Stop copying Apple's every move.

Make all the craplets optional.

Fix the bugs, fix the consistency problems.

Remove outdated backwards compatibility and protocol support.

Further improve all the system tools, especially the registry editor (CLSIDWTF?).

Improve installation and multi-boot support, repair features, and migration features.

Make the switch to the 64-bit version.

Get rid of the Xbox and make the PC the ultimate gaming platform.

[XerXis]

Symantec pcAnywhere is a prime example of this. Every time I try running pcAnywhere, I get the UAC prompt. There's others that I get with that, like anything that tries accessing an ODBC connection (of course, when I say anything, I mean anything written pre-Vista).

if you get an uac prompt when opening an ODBC connection it's probably a badly written driver. For example the firebird driver used to do that, never had any problems with the mysql driver or mssql driver.

[tsupersonic]

All MS has to do is a release a Vista Live CD or image (see: Wubi) so people can try it themselves without risk. This phony test they did isn't convincing. Maybe those in the tech industry and "enthusiasts" have noticed it (and laughed at it), but it has not reached consumers or the mainstream newsmedia. Compare that with the mainstream news on the iPhone, which Apple didn't have to bribe anyone to do.

MS is looking like IBM more and more every day. MS thinks too highly of itself, the way IBM did at its peak. MS needs to stop with Ballmer's cunning plans and grand strategies and make the products people want. People want a fast, stable, robust, manageable, customizable OS that doesn't do things behind their back and track their activities. Steve Ballmer's schemes are blatantly obvious, and they will always backfire on MS.

Stop treating customers like terrorists.

Stop trying to sabotage competitors at the expensive of quality.

Stop copying Apple's every move.

Make all the craplets optional.

Fix the bugs, fix the consistency problems.

Remove outdated backwards compatibility and protocol support.

Further improve all the system tools, especially the registry editor (CLSIDWTF?).

Improve installation and multi-boot support, repair features, and migration features.

Make the switch to the 64-bit version.

Get rid of the Xbox and make the PC the ultimate gaming platform.

Wow... First, wubi is an installer that allows new people experience linux. It is a linux installer that runs in Windows. I think if they made something like wubi for Vista, people wouldn't bother with it. There are many things wrong with Vista. First the many different versions. They need to get rid of many of the versions. They should have a home version and a business version (and a server version). Windows is expensive too. If people are happy with XP, then they won't want to pay $100 just to get Vista. (And Vista's false perspective is just killing MS now).

They don't copy Apple's every move... Apple has done its copying over the ages, just look back in history. Fix the bugs? What bugs? Craplets? IMO, nothing wrong with the registry editor...

If they remove "outdated backwards compatibility, you get people moaning that x doesn't work. Windows is an OS used in 80%+ of all computers. You need to satisfy your customers. MS has a tough job at hand. Apple has a closed environment, where as MS has an open and endless possibilites with configurations.

They already made the switch to 64 bit... It's mostly the drivers that are kicking them in the ass. And no, it's not MS's fault that hardware manufacturers make crappy or no drivers for 64-bit.

Get rid of the Xbox? Why? The Xbox is a successful gaming console. Clearly you are a MS hater, your points make no sense at all.

[portauthority]

Ignore toadeater, he never takes his meds.

I LOLed when he said that the CEO of Broadcom is going to jail for failing to cooperate with FOSS community when it was over drugs. :laugh:

[djDaemon]

One would think, especially at a tech-centric site such as this, that people wouldn't continue to perpetuate this BS. Especially when those with half a brain or more realize that 99% of this anti-Vista sentiment is really anti-MS sentiment. It would seem that no matter what they do, MS is evil and manipulative.

OMG VISTA IS TEH SUCKZ0RXZ11!!!!1!1uno!!1!!11! UAC IS TEH HARD!!1!!11!

But not Apple, by God! They just make defective products... by accident. So its ok. Obviously.