Recommended Posts

As much as I support Blu-ray, I must admit that the future would probably shy away from having physical disks as a format. We're getting lazier and lazier, and having a disc for each movie is slowly going to be old-fashioned. That's where your digital downloads could fit perfectly into the mix. If we had bigger download limits from our ISP's and faster connections, I think most people would much rather be downloading there HD movies then having to actually buy them.

I agree with you [boz] on the topic of Blu-ray not doing as well as originally thought. I was under the impression that BD would replace DVD at a very accelerated rate, and we'd all be getting into the world of HD content. But that transition is still pretty non-existent and consumers are still purchasing more DVD movies, then BD movies.

The thought that the future of movies is still after all these years going to be on a physical disc. Especially with the technology we have today, makes me realize that we as tech-savvy consumers expect much more, and digital downloads is a more futuristic way to view your movies. It may not be practical for everyone to buy a 1TB HDD for there stuff, but at the same time you're just as likely to purchase a stand-alone Blu-ray player right?

The next-generation of TV panels at this point are going to be OLED displays, which will hit the market soon. I believe I read an article somewhere saying we already have TV sets that can display a picture far better than anything we have today, yet we just don't have a format to carry it out on, something along those lines...?

Once again another thread where people don't give a **** about the subject, all they care is that Boz is the thread author and the subject of the thread is negative towards Blu-ray. :rolleyes:

We're getting lazier and lazier

Speak for yourself, I am not lazy! Well, I maybe, but I still love Physical format Better!

I SWEAR, DD will NEVER be my format of choice, EVER! (UNless, of course it's Free)

Edited by JediXAngel
As much as I support Blu-ray, I must admit that the future would probably shy away from having physical disks as a format. We're getting lazier and lazier, and having a disc for each movie is slowly going to be old-fashioned. That's where your digital downloads could fit perfectly into the mix. If we had bigger download limits from our ISP's and faster connections, I think most people would much rather be downloading there HD movies then having to actually buy them.

I agree with you [boz] on the topic of Blu-ray not doing as well as originally thought. I was under the impression that BD would replace DVD at a very accelerated rate, and we'd all be getting into the world of HD content. But that transition is still pretty non-existent and consumers are still purchasing more DVD movies, then BD movies.

The thought that the future of movies is still after all these years going to be on a physical disc. Especially with the technology we have today, makes me realize that we as tech-savvy consumers expect much more, and digital downloads is a more futuristic way to view your movies. It may not be practical for everyone to buy a 1TB HDD for there stuff, but at the same time you're just as likely to purchase a stand-alone Blu-ray player right?

The next-generation of TV panels at this point are going to be OLED displays, which will hit the market soon. I believe I read an article somewhere saying we already have TV sets that can display a picture far better than anything we have today, yet we just don't have a format to carry it out on, something along those lines...?

Snoopie, you are right, but the reality is that people treat Blu-Ray as an already established mainstream format, when it's really not. It's at BEST 2-3% of market. At an incredibly accelerated rate they have very little chances of reaching any real significant numbers within 5 years..

The second biggest obstacle is that Blu-Ray replication machines and all the infrastructure is by no means rushed towards by businesses. Major reason is that it costs several million to adopt. Why would anyone in their sensible mind invest millions into something that's 2-3% of a market when they can invest that money in the next step which will be flash memory, digital downloads and overall everything connecting to broadband. Doesn't make any business sense and this is why essentially Blu-Ray equipment sales are really going pretty bad overall. One of the companies that tried to open it here in the States Blue-Ray Technologies had to file for bankruptcies and had serious financial issues.

The thing today is that technology evolves much faster then it did even at DVD age, 1080p in Blu-Ray quality might not be possible..but 2-3 years from now.. it will be, have no doubt about that. Just remember what you were buying technology wise 3-4 or 5 years ago and it's pretty telling of what will most likely happen. Mass storage devices, home servers, hard disks, flash memory are dropping at rapid rate, in the next 5 years all this will be so convenient and cheap for regular consumer that it won't make any sense to use optical media anymore.

I hard use optical media today when I can get 1tb external drive for $150-$200.

But that transition is still pretty non-existent and consumers are still purchasing more DVD movies, then BD movies.

You also need to consider how many people even have a HDTV, plus a Blu-ray player on top of that.

MOST people who don't buy Blu-ray movies just don't have either of those already, in the first place.

I think DD is Retarded...

Yeah, it works Great for companies (More money for them cost them little to nothing to put out), but consumers who finds it a great format, makes NO sense at all!

Those you download from XBL Marketplace, iTunes, GOD HOW can people stand those crap?!!?

HOW can people be SO lazy?

Or is it blindness? Just because ALL companies embrace Digital distribution means that's the Best format for consumers?

It will be a SAD day when the future our products are only in digital formats!

http://newlevelgaming.blog-city.com/sony_w...ion_for_ps4.htm

That's about gaming, but it also can be about Movies, music.

Edited by JediXAngel
You also need to consider how many people even have a HDTV, plus a Blu-ray player on top of that.

MOST people who don't buy Blu-ray movies just don't have either of those already, in the first place.

I think DD is Retarded...

Yeah, it works Great for companies (More money for them cost them little to nothing to put out), but consumers who finds it a great format, makes NO sense at all!

Those you download from XBL Marketplace, iTunes, GOD HOW can people stand those crap?!!?

HOW can people be SO lazy?

It will be a SAD day when the future our products are only in digital formats!

I don't understand your frustration? So people are lazy because we don't go to a store to buy a disc but we enjoy the convenience of watching movies from our living room?

Have you even used XBL for movies or Vudu HD? HD movies and shows look spectacular and extremely convenient. Add to this that I know people are that EXTREMELY happy with digital Netflix.. it is more and more obvious that people prefer this method over physical media.

One advice, first don't obsess to much with bitrates and specifications, instead just enjoy the quality you see with your own eyes and second, if you don't want to use downloads and feel you are lazy if you do, go to gym more often and you won't feel like it. No?

Just because ALL companies embrace Digital distribution means that's the Best format for consumers?

You mean like Blu-Ray?

whether blue ray lives or dies i reckon within 5 years we wont be having discs we'll be using flash cards at the very least. Like Boz and other pp have said you scratch the disc and its knackered at least with flash cards you cant damage it unless you bend it and if ya bend a disc well it snaps so either way youve lost ya film.

I backup films to my computer and compress them to avi's and have a dvd player that can play avi films in my living room, i get an SD card (well using my phones memory card at the moe as its 2GB), load it up on to there and use my multi-sd card reader to stick it in the USB slot on the player and run it through that. more cost effective than using cd's all the time also deletion is pretty much instant (wouldnt be instant on a re-writable disc) and writing to it take a lot less time than burning a disc so it practical.

You could for all intensive purposes have a "locked" flash card that cant be re-written to with films on it ready available in store or you got your own flash card pay for the film put it in there etc take it home and stick it in the player and play ya film.

DRM on discs is crap anyway, ive never had any problems in stripping the protection off my DVD's. Hackers or whatever there called are obviously more clever than the ppl who come up with these stupid protection ideas which ultimately we have to pay the priviledge for having on the discs which gets defeated like 4 days later or someat, so why bother???

Im sure ive heard of the supposed next thing to high definition from japan, someat rediculous like 30,000x20,000, that type of rediclous resolutions on like 50 inch TV's. Its gonna be a long way off yet but least someone is trying come up with the next version.

oh yeah and on the thing of blue ray players and high techy stuff, seeing as were on the brink of a recession i cant see to many ppl buying lotsa crap they dont need anyway, and tbh a blue ray player with a full 1080p HD screen aint gonna be on there list of priorities for a while

I don't think digital downloads will ever take off in the mass consumer market. Just the fact that Digital downloads are intangible makes them unapealing IMO. If I'm buying something I want a physical copy of it that I know is mine. If a digital download company goes belly-up you won't have any assurance your movies will still be playable in the future. Another thing with digital downloads is that you can't re-sell them if you ever want to. I usually purchase steelbook limited editions of movies, and you know what, some of them actually sell on eBay for more than I bought them for. I can see how digital downloads might be convenient for rentals (if you have the bandwidth), but I wouldn't want to invest money in owning intangible movies.

Obviously, something is going to replace Blu-Ray, but I doubt it going to be as soon as 2013, like the article mentions. Are people forgetting how long it took for DVD to become mainstream. It was first released in 1997, and for most of the people I know their first DVD player was the ps2 that they bought in 2000-2001. My first dvd player was one of the "cheap" $150 wal-mart DVD players from around 2002-2003.

Why are people talking about the price of flash storage as if it's cheap? Sure, in a few years it will be cheaper, but optical storage will be even cheaper by that time. Think about it, 4GB on a DVD is $0.30 a 4GB flash drive is $10. a blank 25GB Blu-Ray is $10, show me 25GB of flash storage that's even close to that price. Sure, magnetic storage is cheap, but not flash.

I agree with you [boz] on the topic of Blu-ray not doing as well as originally thought. I was under the impression that BD would replace DVD at a very accelerated rate, and we'd all be getting into the world of HD content. But that transition is still pretty non-existent and consumers are still purchasing more DVD movies, then BD movies.

IMHO thats one of the big mistakes people made. They expected an overnight transition. It was NEVER going to happen that way and anyone with reasonable insight should have seen that it would take as long as it took DVD's to replace VHS for much the same reasons (price, availabilty, ownership of the existing format). I still think it's happening but until they get $200 or so players out in the field we won't see an overly rapid adoption. Those $200 players don't even have to be technically brilliant, I'm sure sales staff would still be able to sell a truck load of them to users who aren't hugely fussed either way.

I don't understand your frustration? So people are lazy because we don't go to a store to buy a disc but we enjoy the convenience of watching movies from our living room?

Have you even used XBL for movies or Vudu HD? HD movies and shows look spectacular and extremely convenient. Add to this that I know people are that EXTREMELY happy with digital Netflix.. it is more and more obvious that people prefer this method over physical media.

One advice, first don't obsess to much with bitrates and specifications, instead just enjoy the quality you see with your own eyes and second, if you don't want to use downloads and feel you are lazy if you do, go to gym more often and you won't feel like it. No?

You mean like Blu-Ray?

Convience means NOTHING to me at all! I swear, people these days are so lazy (Convience is MOST important factor) it makes NO sense!

To me, where MOST important factors are

1) Price Is it the cheapest?

2) AmountDo they give you More stuff Vs Physical copies

Did you check the link I orovided about Video game DD, and the reasons why it Sucks?

Very true what that link says, companies are taken advantage of consumers, that's ALL it is, DD benefits companies NOT consumers at all.

The two important factors I listed just seem to go AGAINST DD being a better format! Time after time, I discovered

1) Price is actually NOT cheaper (At least if you look at XBL MP / EA prices, vs Physical format sold in stores BOTH cases Stores are MUCH Cheaper!)

2) They actually give you LESS contents.

SO, **** DD!!! DD is NOT the future, it's Mostly for Greedy companies to Nick & Dime consumers!!! Only thing consumers benefit from it is Convience, but like I said, I ain't lazy like that, whatsoever.

And I am Just dumbfounded that all you guys are just lured right into it! :rolleyes:

You gotta keep in mind, the MAIN reason ALL these companies Brag that DD is the future, is because they KNOW that can make them MORE profit! These companies are very SMART, got it all plotted out. But does it really help consumers? Other than convience, trust me, NO WAY!!!

Once DD takes over, and Physical format goes away, you WILL see Microtransactions let's NOT be blind and support that, please!!

Edited by JediXAngel

Thank you JediXAngel, you pretty much pointed out why I think DD will not take off any time soon. We can't safely make predictions for the next 10 years because we have no idea on the market needs by then.

to download a movie, the average internet user with average speeds will take several hours. Most online stores offer next day delivery and reasonable prices.

And that's YOUR OWN OPINION and there's quite a few people that disagree with you, some of them directly from Sony and other BDA members. Sony themselves said that at this point it is most likely that Blu-Ray won't replace DVD, if you actually read news and kept informed you would know that.

You can HOPE that it will replace DVD, but judging by reality and information we can see now it's highly unlikely.

You make it sound like your opinion is the only one that counts. Why discount what others think?

I think you are overstating your 'facts'. From what I have read, only one suit at Sony has said anything remotely close to what you claim, yet oddly enough, what he ACTUALLY said is not even close to what you claim. His quote:

Looking ahead, you're only just getting into Blu-ray. How do you see the future penetration of the format compared with DVD?

Glasgow: That's a good question. DVD took 10 years to really penetrate. We're now in the second year of Blu-ray. My guess is it will probably happen a little quicker in terms of penetration. The pricing is already coming down more quickly than DVD came down. I don't think it will take as long as 10 years, but I don't think it will penetrate to the same percentage because there's a couple of conflicting forces. Certainly, people that want the best picture are going to want it, without a doubt. People that are OK with upconverting DVD players, which is somewhere close to 600, 650, maybe 700 (lines of resolution)--that's not a bad picture either. So a lot of people may be happy with an upconverting DVD player. And (Blu-ray) may not turn over, it may not penetrate to the same extent, because (DVD) was such a big medium change from tape.

But I see it being the major format. It's won the war, that's done. Now it's a matter of: Can we provide an exceptional experience? Can we provide a social part? And can we involve the overall community in, let's say, designing applets and coming up with new things that we can't even think of today?

So I think it's safe to say that your claim of 'Sony themselves said that at this point it is most likely that Blu-Ray won't replace DVD' is entirely false. Sony has stated they look toward 2011 for Blu to overtake DVD. http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/14979.cfm

Snoopie, you are right, but the reality is that people treat Blu-Ray as an already established mainstream format, when it's really not. It's at BEST 2-3% of market. At an incredibly accelerated rate they have very little chances of reaching any real significant numbers within 5 years..

It's become quite apparent that your reality is quite different than what is actually happening. Blu's market share been anywhere from 6% (week ending Aug 24) to 12% (week ending July 13), however it usually hovers around the 8-9% mark. These numbers are from Nielsen VideoScan, which is pretty much the standard when it comes to video market share. I'm just curious...where do you get your numbers?

From what I have read and I have to agree, is that the future is a proliferation of formats; VOD, BD, downloads, streaming, etc. It would seem that even Sony understands this. BD will be a huge part of this as it provides the most profit and gives us the best quality. That's what some people care about. However there are others that don't want to spend the money on a player/discs and prefer to rent/purchase via Xbox360, iTunes, Netflix, etc. Then we have VOD in 1080p coming from Dish and Directv, however it will not be Blu quality. We are a LONG way from that type of quality being delivered by any other medium. Lastly, there are too many different personal preferences to loudly proclaim that Blu-Ray will be gone by 2012. Samsung has long had their money invested in OLED, so of course they will push that. Whether this Samsung fella is just trying to push attention to his tech or he's simply a buffoon, it's anyone's guess. However with technology advancing quickly, Blu prices WILL drop significantly in the next year or two.

In 2012 digital and physical will exist, I'm 99.9% certain. Just like physical and digital music coincides together.

Why kill off a market for physical, when it's always going to be in demand? You can argue your ass off what this level of demand will be, and :o will it be like DVD the now?! Who knows, but one thing im sure about IMO is the demand will not be reaching such a low level in 2012, that physical actually has to be disabandoned.

People in here are talking as if when 2012 comes, absolutely nothing physical will be around. That IMO is absolutely ludicrous.

I really sincerely hope we don't go there, not for a long time anyway. I want to use digital distribution and physical for MANY years to come, for personal reasons, gift reasons, amongst a list of other things.

Renting is pretty spot on digitally distributed (still not for everyone though), but for classic films and stuff I rate highly, I like owning my own copy physically.

Owning 2 HDTVs in my house now, HD is prioritised when possible for sought after content. No one in my house likes watching in SD now. Obvious there is still a balance to price/HD, and no, not EVERYTHING is bought in HD due to DVD prices being so low.

High Definition is just a progression in quality from Standard Definition - It always makes me confused as hell when you get people who oppose a future of better quality.

Price is irrelevant to actually oppose the future of HD, as every normal headed person knows price always comes down on technology. What you're really opposing is joining the HD bandwagon when it is still rather expensive, or because you don't own an HD output device in your house.

Those are legit reasons IMO, but to just run around saying "down with HD" for no real reason, puzzles me haha.

Edited by Audioboxer
You make it sound like your opinion is the only one that counts. Why discount what others think?

Not at all.. where did I force my opinion on anyone? How he did as if I should just accept what he THINKS is reality and you too.

I think you are overstating your 'facts'. From what I have read, only one suit at Sony has said anything remotely close to what you claim, yet oddly enough, what he ACTUALLY said is not even close to what you claim. His quote:

How can I overstate facts. I just point out to what is being said it's that other people have issues with THAT not me.

And you are right.. I don't know why you mean about my statement being false. The Sony guy YOU QUOTED says:

"And (Blu-ray) may not turn over, it may not penetrate to the same extent, because (DVD) was such a big medium change from tape. But I see it being the major format."

It's very obvious what the person says here. I'm not sure why you are telling me how I spread misinformation. It's right there, black and white.

So I think it's safe to say that your claim of 'Sony themselves said that at this point it is most likely that Blu-Ray won't replace DVD' is entirely false. Sony has stated they look toward 2011 for Blu to overtake DVD.

Again, Sony can hope and if I follow logic that PeterTHX used in this thread Asia Pacific Sony representative is irrelevant. :)

But seriously, there is absolutely ZERO chance they will do it. That's 3 years and their market share is not expanding at a pace where you can even be considering this. ABI Research and Forrester Research point out to a slew of problems and say that MAYBE Blu-Ray might become mainstream format by 2013.

If you count that Samsung guy says that Blu-Ray will be replaced by 2013, this pretty much logically means that Blu-Ray won't even get a chance to go mainstream.

It's become quite apparent that your reality is quite different than what is actually happening. Blu's market share been anywhere from 6% (week ending Aug 24) to 12% (week ending July 13), however it usually hovers around the 8-9% mark. These numbers are from Nielsen VideoScan, which is pretty much the standard when it comes to video market share. I'm just curious...where do you get your numbers?

Exactly and I track those numbers more then you would think. The Blu-Ray sales are HORRIBLE.. that latest week was around $8m in sales for ALL Blu-Rays.. the second worst week after the week before that fell to $6m.. the numbers are back to the beginning of the year levels. How anyone can see this as progress I have no clue.. Since I work in entertainment industry I am also pretty informed on why studios release only crap movies on Blu-Ray for the most part and only really release the blockbusters and new movies that are up to date. You will simply not see old DVD catalog movies on Blu-Ray for the most part only the ones they deem profitable.

From what I have read and I have to agree, is that the future is a proliferation of formats; VOD, BD, downloads, streaming, etc. It would seem that even Sony understands this. BD will be a huge part of this as it provides the most profit and gives us the best quality. That's what some people care about.

Exactly and these people are called audio and videophiles and is a niche audience. Blu-Ray's quality will be matched by Digital Downloads within years anyways - it's almost very close now Vudu has amazingly cool 1080p digital download service with only thing being DD+ audio which is totally fine with everything. For anyone to even hear to difference between DD+ and TrueHD or uncompressed audio you need to spend thousands and thousands of dollars only on your sound system. Something that will always be niche.

However there are others that don't want to spend the money on a player/discs and prefer to rent/purchase via Xbox360, iTunes, Netflix, etc. Then we have VOD in 1080p coming from Dish and Directv, however it will not be Blu quality.

I'm really sick and tired of people saying it's not Blu quality.. what does that mean? You WILL NOT SEE A DIFFERENCE between 720p HD and 1080p HD footage on displays lesser then 55". 1080p is hype that was made to charge consumers for more money because less then 1% of consumers have TVs greater then 55" in their homes. If you do research you will understand. Many recognized experts (including CNET senior editors and a few others) have already noted that it's almost indistinguishable.. So when you visually can't really see the difference or the difference is less then a few percent, what exactly is so advanced in quality that you need to pay more for Blu-Ray? It's nonsense and btw whoever says they can see the difference are probably the same people who test positive on placebo tests. It's what you WANT to believe not what you actually see. Go to your local electronics store and look at the footage on a Plasma that's 720p and a plasma that is 1080p playing a Blu-Ray movie. There's ZERO difference.

We are a LONG way from that type of quality being delivered by any other medium. Lastly, there are too many different personal preferences to loudly proclaim that Blu-Ray will be gone by 2012. Samsung has long had their money invested in OLED, so of course they will push that. Whether this Samsung fella is just trying to push attention to his tech or he's simply a buffoon, it's anyone's guess. However with technology advancing quickly, Blu prices WILL drop significantly in the next year or two.

RIght.. anyone who raises the same point I agree with in general and when it's starting to get more and more obvious they are immediately dismissed as buffoon. LOL..

Exactly, Blu-Ray doesn't have a chance in mainstream and taking over as the main format because this is not 1997. There are many different preferences, people prefer to rent more then they prefer to own, people are more tech savvy, they like to download and convenience of Netflix from the couch over going to the blockbuster or waiting 2 days to get a movie in the mail, more and more companies are including digital downloads capabilities in their own devices (read new LG player with Netflix, XBL with Netflix, PS3 with downloads, Sony TVs, Internet TV, Home Servers etc with download capability without the need for any other device pretty much etc etc) and of course, on top of that A HUGE percentage of people are simply satisfied with DVD unlike the situation was with VHS. Thats' the REALITY you live in.

However with technology advancing quickly, Blu prices WILL drop significantly in the next year or two.

Again, you say this with zero backing up or any business logic. Do you even understand HOW prices drop. They don't just drop mysteriously. There are 2 ways prices drop. One is increased competition (where companies are willingly losing money to compete and gain marketshare) which we already see is not really happening between vendors, they seem to be all working together to rip consumers off for as much as you can (look at HDTV prices for example - almost 7-8 years and they are STILL expensive for a lot of people).

Vizio is the only company trying to make waves and the MPEG2 cartel, btw, consisted of the same BDA members is suing them and trying to close them down because they are trying to lower the prices and increase quality. So competition more or less is something you shouldn't really count on when they all strive to keep the prices high not low. Second way to lower prices is mass production. Of course this is really the problem, because people are not buying Blu-Ray enthusiastically so prices will go down, sure, but the process will last a while..

Blu-Ray doesn't have time. 2-3 years from now, when Blu-Ray finally becomes affordable for mainstream audience there will be so many other choices in content delivery that the market will be so watered down that nobody will even use optical media, again, with possibility of a few like you who really have to have a movie in the hand to put on a shelf, most people will be fine having the movies they want in the cloud.

Edited by Boz
In 2012 digital and physical will exist, I'm 99.9% certain. Just like physical and digital music coincides together.

Why kill off a market for physical, when it's always going to be in demand? You can argue your ass off what this level of demand will be, and :o will it be like DVD the now?! Who knows, but one thing im sure about IMO is the demand will not be reaching such a low level in 2012, that physical actually has to be disabandoned.

People in here are talking as if when 2012 comes, absolutely nothing physical will be around. That IMO is absolutely ludicrous.

I really sincerely hope we don't go there, not for a long time anyway. I want to use digital distribution and physical for MANY years to come, for personal reasons, gift reasons, amongst a list of other things.

Renting is pretty spot on digitally distributed (still not for everyone though), but for classic films and stuff I rate highly, I like owning my own copy physically.

Owning 2 HDTVs in my house now, HD is prioritised when possible for sought after content. No one in my house likes watching in SD now. Obvious there is still a balance to price/HD, and no, not EVERYTHING is bought in HD due to DVD prices being so low.

High Definition is just a progression in quality from Standard Definition - It always makes me confused as hell when you get people who oppose a future of better quality.

Price is irrelevant to actually oppose the future of HD, as every normal headed person knows price always comes down on technology. What you're really opposing is joining the HD bandwagon when it is still rather expensive, or because you don't own an HD output device in your house.

Those are legit reasons IMO, but to just run around saying "down with HD" for no real reason, puzzles me haha.

I agree to a large extent what you say here.. and nobody is saying "down with HD". The point I'm trying to make is with Blu-ray.. Optical media might be still alive by 2012 but the demand will rapidly drop because of other more convenient delivery methods IMO. It's technological progression and it will most likely be all HD since even today we have quite a bit of HD delivered via alternative non-optical media.

I think that by 2012 all the flaws of digital will be ironed out and even though optical might exists I see more people switching directly to digital downloads and alternative media from DVD then buying a Blu-Ray player.

What COULD save Blu-Ray sales is if more and more companies included digital downloads capabilities in their Blu-Ray players like LG does now with their latest device. Now then, people would probably get a device that would give them pretty much all in one but they would still most likely use digital download aspect of their devices over Blu-Ray ones and it would definitely make sense.

I think, the more technology merges the easier it will be for consumers to really see how little difference there is between 720p HD, 1080p HD, digital download HD, HD VOD etc etc... the quality is excellent on all of them and if the people are satisfied with DVD quality today, imagine how little difference it will be to them comparing 720p to 1080p.

Edited by Boz
I agree to a large extent what you say here.. and nobody is saying "down with HD". The point I'm trying to make is with Blu-ray.. Optical media might be still alive by 2012 but the demand will rapidly drop because of other more convenient delivery methods IMO. It's technological progression and it will most likely be all HD since even today we have quite a bit of HD delivered via alternative non-optical media.

I think that by 2012 all the flaws of digital will be ironed out and even though optical might exists I see more people switching directly to digital downloads and alternative media from DVD then buying a Blu-Ray player.

What COULD save Blu-Ray sales is if more and more companies included digital downloads capabilities in their Blu-Ray players like LG does now with their latest device. Now then, people would probably get a device that would give them pretty much all in one but they would still most likely use digital download aspect of their devices over Blu-Ray ones and it would definitely make sense.

The more technology merges the easier it will be for consumers to really see how little difference there is between 720p HD, 1080p HD, digital download HD, HD VOD etc etc... the quality is excellent on all of them and if the people are satisfied with DVD quality today, imagine how little difference it will be to them comparing 720p to 1080p.

Which yeah will be true for a lot of people not clued up/not caring, but I don't see how this relates directly to sales of physical/digital.

As for BR, I don't really see how it's ever going to need "saving" either. There are no physical competitors, that pretty much means as long as there is people wanting to buy physical HD, they'll only be buying BR.

It's competition isn't in the same market in the sense that there are now no direct replicated products. DVD is SD, and digital distribution isn't physical.

Both are competitors for sure, yes, but I think anyone in here will see what I'm saying in terms of there being no physical HD competition at all any more.

We're all at the mercy of prices tumbling now, that's all. Or for a small percentage of people with the bandwith to spare, they're at a crossroads now where they can choose

Digital only

Digital and Physical

or just remain Physical only

Who knows what the majority will choose in that position, to hard to tell this early I think when HD in general is still quite new, and the branching categories of HD, physical (BR) and digital distribution are still new, at least to a lot of people.

Edited by Audioboxer
Which yeah will be true for a lot of people not clued up/not caring, but I don't see how this relates directly to sales of physical/digital.

As for BR, I don't really see how it's ever going to need "saving" either. There are no physical competitors, that pretty much means as long as there is people wanting to buy physical HD, they'll only be buying BR.

It's competition isn't in the same market in the sense that there are now no direct replicated products. DVD is SD, and digital distribution isn't physical.

Both are competitors for sure, yes, but I think anyone in here will see what I'm saying in terms of there being no physical HD competition at all any more.

We're all at the mercy of prices tumbling now, that's all. Or for a small percentage of people with the bandwith to spare, they're at a crossroads now where they can choose

Digital only

Digital and Physical

or just remain Physical only

Who knows what the majority will choose in that position, to hard to tell this early I think when HD in general is still quite new, and the branching categories of HD, physical (BR) and digital distribution are still new, at least to a lot of people.

I think you are not taking in consideration that a lot of people actually loves digital downloads and has no need for physical copies of their movies. I would say that trend increases at a rapid rate and one of the major reasons why studios needed to do something and limit number of discs sold to rental chains. People just don't care to own anymore IMO.

Secondly, I think the flaw in your logic is that you look at physical as "OPTICAL MEDIA" only. Physical media WILL exists most likely for a long time but OPTICAL MEDIA is the one that will go away. It's highly inefficient, it's slow, limited rewritability etc etc.

The future will be digital downloads, flash memory, SSD drives (over the long run), hard drives working with digital downloads. New technologies like wireless USB, wireless HD and similar make sure that connection with these devices will be flawless and much faster and optimal then optical ever was. We are already here with that, it's just that in the next couple of years I think it will be adopted by mainstream and all CE companies, whether they like it or not will have to adopt as they already are.

Apple for example, usually has a good hunch for the future. Why do you think they completely took out DVD drive and made Macbook Air as it is? It is a testament to what is to come within 2-3 years. They are not stupid. Why do you think they are not rushing to integrate Blu-Ray in their machines too? It all has very much business sense.

Apple for example, usually has a good hunch for the future. Why do you think they completely took out DVD drive and made Macbook Air as it is? It is a testament to what is to come within 2-3 years. They are not stupid. Why do you think they are not rushing to integrate Blu-Ray in their machines too? It all has very much business sense.

That was like the worst decision ever.

The MacBook Air is in no way the idea of a mainstream laptop, it was IMO a prototype, one which sacrificed a hell of a lot of features just to be able to claim it's the thinnest.

Laptops ain't ditching DVD drives any time soon permanently, and as BR prices drop you'll have BR drives put into the more expensive laptops first, then it will trickle down to them being in every laptop like DVD.

I don't think DD will catch on for some time, I do however think they can easily co-exist. As already demonstrated by this thread, some only buy, some rent and some do both. There is enough marketshare for both.

Totally agree with this.

Not really got much else to say on everything.

I personally want to both own physically and digitally basically for the foreseeable future.

Totally agree with this.

Not really got much else to say on everything.

Exactly, arguments like this is purely academic, we should vote with our wallets and see how it pans out.

Although having a digital version of a film on the disc that is psp ready is a damn good idea.

Exactly, arguments like this is purely academic, we should vote with our wallets and see how it pans out.

Although having a digital version of a film on the disc that is psp ready is a damn good idea.

Tell me .. how are you going to watch your Blu-Ray disc on other TVs you might have in the house?

You see... that's where convenience and "wallet" comes into play. Digital media you can stream independently around the house. With new models they actually streaming capabilities in them and you have one centralized location for your own content you can stream?

Do you see the flaw of optical media? You have to buy a player for each room if you want to play it and since you are breaking the law by ripping a movie (not to mention that a bunch of people simply doesn't even bother with that) the future undoubtably lies in digital downloads just for the flexibility if nothing else.

Tell me .. how are you going to watch your Blu-Ray disc on other TVs you might have in the house?

You see... that's where convenience and "wallet" comes into play. Digital media you can stream independently around the house. With new models they actually streaming capabilities in them and you have one centralized location for your own content you can stream?

Do you see the flaw of optical media? You have to buy a player for each room if you want to play it and since you are breaking the law by ripping a movie (not to mention that a bunch of people simply doesn't even bother with that) the future undoubtably lies in digital downloads just for the flexibility if nothing else.

When player prices come down, and BR is integrated into just about everything like DVD, there's your solution to watching in multiple rooms.

As it stands just now with HDTV prices, I'd bet most people will only have 1 HDTV/HD movie player. I have two HDTVs in my house currently, but one was funded totally out of my pocket for myself. We only have 1 main family HDTV.

There's much more technology savyness required to stream as well, than popping a disc in a player.

What happens when you go round to your friends/away from your house as well? DRM usually causes headaches there. Physical doesn't.

Pluses and minuses for both, both of which people will want to take advantage of.

Edited by Audioboxer
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Posts

    • <Moved to software discussion and support> I've got fond memories of Winamp. Changing the skins, the different visualisations etc. But now I just need a simple music player. MSN messenger would be another one, MSN Messenger Plus (I think?) offered so many different plugins. But again, it probably wouldn't work for me these days. And then there is miRC. i think it's still going these days, but lord i had fun with that back in the day. Now it's mostly stuff like Discord, WhatsApp group chats, Signal, Telegram... /me is showing his age...
    • ive always been fascinated by old software this is an old video player for windows from apple
    • In the way that you framed it incorrectly. You wrote: "The constant need to close all browser sessions and wait for a new version to install" There's no "constant need to close all browser sessions". That's factually incorrect. The browser downloads its updates in the background and installs them when you open it again. Silently. And there's no "wait for a new version to install", updates are small and take 2-3 extra seconds AT MOST, if any. If you have an SSD, there's zero extra time. Also, every mainstream browser operates this way. Firefox, the FOSS go-to browser, the default on almost every Linux distro, does exactly the same. Also, you don't need to constantly restart Edge for updates to install, you can completely ignore them and it doesn't even ask you to handle them, it's all silent and automatic. So I don't understand what else do you want.
    • DuRoBo Krono Review: Portable E-Ink reader with great ideas that need a bit of improvement by Taras Buria Phone-sized e-readers are gaining traction these days, with more people treating them as a getaway device to cure phone addiction (or at least they are trying to) or having a more pocket-friendly reader that is easier to carry and hold. The market now has plenty of such readers to choose from, and DuRoBo is the latest addition, a new player that offers a more interesting approach to the idea. The Krono is a $279 e-reader with an interesting twist, which tries to make the device more fun and ergonomic. Here is my review. Disclaimer: DuRoBo provided the review sample without any editorial input or pre-approval. The Krono comes in a phone-sized box with pink accents. Inside, you get the device itself, a short user manual, and a USB cable. The cable is a bit old-fashioned, Type-A to Type-C, which is a bit disappointing. Hot take: I would rather have no cable in the box rather than another Type-A cable that gets immediately thrown into my box full of similar cables I never use. The Krono also has no charger in the box, as it relies on accessories you already own, which is fine with me. Here are the specs: Dimensions 154 x 80 x 9.0 mm or 6.06" x 3.15" x 0.35" 173 g or 6.10 oz Materials Black or White plastic Display 6.13-inch E-Ink Carta 1200, 1,648 x 824 pixels, 300 ppi Touch-capacitive. Dual-tone frontlight. Processor 8-core Qualcomm Snapdragon 690 (QTI SM6350) 2 performance cores at 2.07 GHz 4 efficiency cores at 1.71 GHz Memory 6 GB Storage 128GB, non-expandable ~104GB available out-of-the-box Operating system Android 15 with a custom launcher Connectivity Wi-Fi and Bluetooth Battery 3,950 mAh battery Buttons and port USB Type-C port Power button, Volume button, Smart Dial Breathing Lights Audio Mono Speaker and Dual microphones In the box The Krono, a Type-A to Type-C cable, user manual Price $279 on Amazon First impressions Right off the bat, no, this is not a phone replacement. Do not approach this device thinking it can serve you as a dumb phone to cure your TikTok addiction. In addition to the fact that the Krono has no cellular connectivity, I strongly believe that no amount of extra devices can fix your phone addiction until you put some serious effort into it. The Krono is a phone-sized e-reader, a companion for your phone dedicated to reading without distractions. The DuRoBo Krono is made of plastic with a very fine texture. It is hardly premium, but I also cannot say it feels cheap. The device is also a bit thick, quite dense, and well-built without rattling or cracking. You get to choose between two colors: white and black. The front has quite thick bezels, which is hardly surprising for an e-ink device. These things use front light, with LEDs usually placed on the screen perimeter. While I do not mind thicker bezels, the notably larger chin cheapens the look a little. What I mind is a notable seam between the display and the main case, which, after just two days of use, collected plenty of dust and specks. The back of the Krono is what makes the device stand out. There is a cylinder (DuRoBo calls it the Axis) embedded in the back of the reader, housing three elements: a power button on the right edge, a Smart Dial on the left edge, and "Breathing Lights" on the back. An etched DuRoBo logo sits below the cylinder, and it is the only piece of branding you can find on the device. Overall, the design and materials are very unassuming, but the cylinder with additional control elements certainly elevates the look and makes it more interesting. Other physical elements include two microphones (one on the top edge and one on the bottom edge), a USB Type-C port, a volume rocker, and a single mono speaker. There is no fingerprint reader, so if you want to protect your device, a PIN is your only option. The official TPU case is not the most premium-looking Display The Krono has a 6.1-inch E-Ink Carta 1200 touchscreen display with a resolution of 1,648 x 824 pixels (300 ppi). The display is front-lit, and you can adjust the brightness and temperature from cool to warm. Unfortunately, the Krono lacks automatic brightness and temperature adjustments, and you cannot set a custom schedule for the frontlight. However, you can set it to always enable frontlight so that you can see what is happening on the screen when turning it on in a dark environment. On the bright side (get it?), the front light can get extremely dim so that the screen is barely readable in a pitch-dark room. The front light is also uniform across the screen, with no noticeable temperature gradients. I am very susceptible to uneven front light, and it is very easy for me to notice it, but the Krono is doing a very good job in this area. I also like that the edge shadow is not very prominent and barely visible in the black variant. E-Ink Carta 1200 is not the newest generation (there are Carta 1250 and 1300), but it is still a good display. It supports three modes: Clarity, Speed, and Quality. In Clarity mode, text is very sharp and easy to read, but you trade that for more ghosting, a slower refresh rate, and more artifacts when the display changes images. Speed mode, as the name suggests, boosts refresh rate and reduces ghosting, but fine print and text become more jagged. Finally, Quality mode is only available in Android apps. It has the lowest refresh rate, but in return, you get much better visuals, improved gradients, and more. Like brightness and temperature, you can toggle modes from the control center. It is available when swiping from the top-right corner of the screen (the top-left is for notifications). I also like that the Krono can work as a desk clock when not in use. It has a bunch of screensavers, including horizontal clocks with time, date, and current battery level. The screen refreshes once per minute, and battery drain is extremely low (not even 1% in 24 hours). It is a great use of the technology, and another thing I wish more e-ink devices featured. Smart Dial The Smart Dial is Krono's main party trick. It sits on the left side of the device and serves multiple purposes. You can twist or press it to perform various actions, depending on the current use case scenario. When reading books, twisting the dial flips through pages, and pressing it refreshes the screen. On the home screen, the dial adjusts the brightness, and holding the dial pressed launches voice note recording. Finally, a quick double press launches the DuRoBo AI chatbot. While the dial scroll is not notched, it is very smooth and has haptic feedback that confirms your actions, which feels very nice. As a long-term Apple Watch user, I love the idea behind the dial. It feels very natural and oddly satisfying to use, especially with that subtle haptic feedback. I never liked flipping pages with touch input, and I strongly believe each e-reader should come with some sort of physical controls for turning pages. The Krono has both volume buttons (which also work as page turners) and the dial, so you are free to use whichever you prefer. With that said, the dial is not perfect. For one, it sticks out of the case way too far for my liking, raising concerns about durability and longevity when carrying the Krono around in a pocket (it is a pocket-sized device after all). Also, it has too much wobble, which cheapens the experience and makes it feel a bit flimsy and unsecured. While there are two plastic guards on the Krono's case, they are way too small for any kind of protection. I also think DuRoBo should let users customize dial actions (the only available customization is scroll direction), particularly for long and double presses. Not everyone needs voice notes, and DuRoBo AI does not work without an active internet connection, leaving the long press essentially useless when offline. I do not mind these features, and I genuinely think they are useful, but I would rather have the ability to toggle between screen modes, turn the frontlight on/off, or launch my favorite app. I also agree with people on Reddit asking developers to let users adjust the dial sensitivity. I hope this is something DuRoBo can implement with a software update to make the experience more personalized (it is a Smart Dial, after all) and incentivize users to fiddle with the Dial more often. The Dial is a fantastic idea, so please, guys, improve it a little. As for ergonomics, they are mostly fine, but the dial's position may feel a little awkward and way too high. When I use a phone or a phone-sized gadget, I tend to rest one of its corners on my palm for a more secure grip. With the Krono, such a grip is impossible because you cannot reach the dial even with big hands. You have to lower the reader a bit and hold it like a bottle without any extra support for the bottom edge. Such a grip is not necessarily uncomfortable (the Krono is also light enough for it), but it requires a bit of muscle retraining. Sometimes, I do not bother with the dial and hold the Krono like my phone, flipping through pages with volume buttons, as they are perfectly positioned for my right-hand thumb. Interestingly, when testing the Krono, I would often find myself thinking that a roller embedded in the long plastic cylinder on the back of the device would have been a much more comfortable solution. There is a free idea for you, guys. Software The Krono runs Android 15 with a very minimal launcher on top. The home screen presents you with a list of apps, a scrollable list of widgets, and your user profile. Widgets can display time, calendar, or recent books for quick access. You can also add or remove apps from the home screen to keep the most useful stuff around without tapping "Apps." I like this minimalistic approach; it looks clean, easy to understand, and light. I understand that some may find the list of all apps way too clean, but fortunately, DuRoBo lets you switch to traditional icons. The reader also has a bunch of preinstalled apps: Read: The default app for reading. Browser: A Chromium-based browser. Files: A simple file manager. Music: A simple music player. Spark: A voice recorder with transcription support and AI summarization DuRoBo AI: A built-in AI chatbot. Transfer: An app for file transfer over Wi-Fi. If that is not enough, there is the Google Play Store, where you can download all the extra apps you need, alternative readers, podcast apps, chatbots, and more. DuRoBo is not trying to give you an all-in-one device. The standard software experience is quite minimal, which makes it easy to approach and learn. The standard reader supports EPUB, EPUB3, AZW3, MOBI, PDF, TXT, DOC, and DOCX, which is more than enough to let you read most books without third-party software. As for customizing the reading experience, you can select one of five built-in fonts, adjust size and thickness, adjust margins and spacing (only three variants for each), change text alignment and direction, toggle the reading status bar, and switch to dark mode. There is also text-to-speech, which utilizes Android's default TTS tech. While I like the simplistic approach, I cannot help but feel DuRoBo could have made the built-in reader a bit more customizable. However, I am not going to bog down on this, as you can always install any other reader you prefer using the Play Store or by sideloading an APK. Getting books to the Krono is very simple. Given that the device is an Android smartphone without cellular connectivity, you can transfer files via a USB Type-C cable, download them using the built-in browser, share them over Bluetooth, or use cloud storage. My favorite was the built-in Transfer app. It is simple, reliable, and very well-designed. I was surprised by how well-designed the web portal is. It is fast, pretty, and properly categorized. Well done! Once you have your books loaded, you can highlight or underline text, add annotations, bookmark pages, check the table of contents, and ask AI about the selected text. Unfortunately, the Krono has no built-in vocabulary, but again, that is something a third-party reader could fix. Overall, the built-in reader is light and snappy, with just the minimum amount of features for a regular user to enjoy reading books. The Krono has no built-in reading tracking, so stat nerds will have to look for third-party reading apps. However, you can set a daily reading goal, and the reader will notify you when you reach it (for example, one hour). You can also set a reminder to read at a certain time, and when the time comes, the Krono will light up its back LEDs and unlock itself to nudge you. Other than that, the rear LEDs do nothing, not even showing charging progress, which is an unfortunate misopportunity if you ask me. Quirks aside, Krono's Android runs quite snappily and bug-free. Early reviews of the Krono criticized its Android 13-based software quite a lot, but now, the reader runs Android 15, and its software has fixed plenty of initial complaints. I never experienced any issues with built-in apps. AI attempts The DuRoBo Krono comes with a built-in AI chatbot. There is no information on what model powers this thing, but the system says it was "trained by Google." You can launch the bot from the app list or by double-pressing the dial. It works just like any other chatbot, and you can ask it anything by typing or using voice input. The AI saves your chats, and you can rename, export, or delete them. DuRoBo AI requires an active internet connection, and it does not work offline. Its reach and capabilities are also limited. You can only chat in the app and use it in the reader app as a makeshift vocabulary. However, the implementation is kinda awkward. You can only send a selected portion of text to AI without giving it any requests or instructions. I highlighted the word "dumb," and it apologized to me for not being useful. You also cannot ask follow-up questions or send the generated response to a separate chat. The chatbot is also slow, even with fast Wi-Fi, making the overall experience quite frustrating, which makes me again wish for the ability to remap the double press to something else. Spark, the standard voice recording app, also uses AI for note summarization and transcribing. Neither feature works offline, unfortunately. Spark records notes up to 30 minutes using Krono's dual microphones, and you can rename or export notes. Transcription quality is decent, and the speed is alright, but you can find much better solutions in the Google Play Store. What I like about Spark is that transcribed notes are not locked, and you can always type more to elaborate on your ideas, which is handy. Overall, I like that the Krono is not shoving AI down my throat, but to be honest, there is really not that much to shove. AI features here feel raw and need improvements to be more useful. Battery Life Like most E-Ink readers, the Krono has fantastic battery life. Even with a clock as a screensaver, its standby power consumption is incredibly low. And when in use, you can get weeks of reading on a single charge. Without the front light, my unit never sipped more than one or two percent of battery during a one-hour reading session. It was nice to see plenty of battery-related settings. You can limit charging at 80% to protect battery health long-term, check the number of charging cycles, manufacturing/first-time use date, battery health, and the maximum capacity. Additionally, the Krono lets you select what hardware remains enabled when sleeping. This lets you keep Wi-Fi and Bluetooth on (say, if you want to receive notifications, for some reason) and keep audio playing when locked. Turning these features off effectively eliminates any standby battery drain. I left my Krono sitting for 24 hours with a clock screensaver on, and it did not drop a single percent. The pretty big 3,950 mAh battery justifies the device's thickness and ensures you do not have to charge it for long periods. Speaking of charging, it is capped at only 10W, which is a bit disappointing, as getting such a big battery to 100% takes a notably long time in the era of super-fast charging smartphones. DuRoBo Moodi The Moodi is a standalone, optional accessory for your Krono. It is a wireless remote with two customizable buttons that you can use to flip pages, control media, or scroll webpages. The accessory connects via Bluetooth. Despite having a built-in rechargeable battery, it is extremely light. While the Moodi's shape and form factor is not what I would call particularly ergonomic, it is not uncomfortable to hold and use. The Moodi comes with six removable magnetic buttons with various smiley faces. Buttons sit securely, and they have nice-feeling, albeit a little loud, clicks. It is a cute touch that adds a little more fun and character to the device. There is also an accented power button and a single status LED. The latter displays charging status and connection mode. The Moodi supports three modes: Reading: Buttons work as volume buttons, allowing you to flip pages in the built-in reader or other apps that support page turning with volume buttons. Media: Buttons work as skip forward/backward, which is useful when listening to audiobooks, podcasts, or music. Scroll: The third mode lets you scroll pages in the web browser or any other application The Krono properly detects the Moodi and presents you with an on-screen guide when you connect it for the first time (it also displays the battery level). However, you can only change modes by holding both buttons for a few seconds. It is also worth noting that the Moodi works with other devices. I connected it to my iPhone and it let me adjust volume or control media playback. Sadly, the scroll did not work, so you cannot use it to waste time scrolling TikToks. Overall, the Moodi is a cute little accessory, which I can recommend for those who read a lot. It is very useful for remote page flipping when you do not want to burden your hands by holding the Krono all the time. I only wish DuRoBo included a lanyard for the built-in loop. As for the battery life, after using the Moodi for a few days, I only managed to drop several percent of its 90 mAh battery. Despite the small size, it is rated for weeks of use, which is pretty impressive. At $35.99, I cannot say the Moodi is a must-have accessory, but I see the appeal. I prefer using the Krono with its Smart Dial, as I rarely read for more than 40-60 minutes in one sitting. However, if you have a stand and like reading for long periods, the Moodi is the right thing to have. It is a bit more expensive than regular page flippers on Amazon, but it is on par with similar products from Kobo or BOOX. Plus, it has a little more fun to it with removable buttons and better integration into the Krono. Conclusion At the end of the day, DuRoBo Krono is a nice pocket-sized e-reader. Its software focuses on the main things without trying to be everything at once. The smart dial idea is unique and great, and I wish more manufacturers had something similar in their devices. The display is also good, with an even frontlight and "always-on" support. I did not notice any deal-breaking issues with the Krono. However, you can feel that the idea needs some improvements, such as a slightly stiffer dial in a more ergonomic location, perhaps a little more premium materials, and better software customization. I hope the company won't give up on the idea and improve the dial and ergonomics in the second generation. Buy DuRoBo Krono Black - $279.99 on Amazon Buy DuRoBo Krono White - $279.99 on Amazon Buy DuRoBo Moodi - $35.99 on Amazon As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.
    • In what way is any of what I said incorrect? To install an update you need to close all browser instances, upping it from once a month to once a fortnight is an inconvenience for users. Particularly when updates don't offer functionality that users want (notably copilot). Security updates should come as they are needed, not on a release schedule
  • Recent Achievements

    • Conversation Starter
      flexorcist earned a badge
      Conversation Starter
    • One Month Later
      AndreaB earned a badge
      One Month Later
    • One Month Later
      agatameier earned a badge
      One Month Later
    • Week One Done
      agatameier earned a badge
      Week One Done
    • Week One Done
      ssd21345 earned a badge
      Week One Done
  • Popular Contributors

    1. 1
      +primortal
      518
    2. 2
      +Edouard
      195
    3. 3
      PsYcHoKiLLa
      147
    4. 4
      ATLien_0
      96
    5. 5
      Steven P.
      77
  • Tell a friend

    Love Neowin? Tell a friend!