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Grand Master

PGHammer

Posted
Posted
I've worked in the OEM business for the last 3 years and your New Zealand ?etailers are wrong. They shouldn't deny you access to OEM licenses.

In short: anyone can pick up a OEM license by stating they themselves are a system builder who intend to install the software on anew> assembled PC. The ?etailer has no right what so ever to deny the OEM sale.

However .. the retailer should sell you the software with the OEM seal intact. As long as the seal is intact, you are allowed to pass on the software (and it's license). Of course in order to use the software, you need to break the seal. By breaking the seal you confirm with the retailer / Microsoft that YOU are the System Builder and YOU are responsible for installation of the software on a new set of hardware and that YOU are responsible for supporting the software and the system.

If you have any doubts, please contact your local Microsoft Center: http://www.microsoft.com/worldwide/

They will explain everything in great detail if you state you are in fact a system builder (or starting system builder).

Again: Retailers and resellers have no right to deny the sale. Some retailers don't understand the (quite simple) OEM rules of Microsoft and play it safe by only promoting the retail editions of Microsoft software.

(ps. Don't get me started on Microsoft 2007 Office System and it's OEM flavors .. completely different story)

Actually, depending on the OEM flavor....it isn't.

The biggest issue with OEM versions is that some are only meant to be sold under specific sets of circumstances (as upgrades (where a person is building new hardware, but has an older qualifying product on the old computer), with specific new hardware (OEM bundles, which is the biggest issue Microsoft has with OEM Office in the US), etc.) as opposed to standard OEM System Builder packs; while some retailers in the US (such as Staples) which carry both System Builder and retail software, stress retail software more than System Builder software, that has to do with the fact that they don't carry other items typically purchased by those looking to build a new computer (unlike, say, MicroCenter, for example, which also sells both retail and System Builder software, and actually stresses both equally in their catalogs; unlike Staples, however, they have a complete BYOPC/System Builder section in their B&M locations, where everything that a system builder wants to build from one computer to tens of computers, including software, is within easy reach). I'm a registered (for over a decade, in fact) Microsoft OEM (through the System Builder program) and I have *always* built one computer at a time. Because of that, I don't buy OEM hardware through the distributor (such as TD or Ingram Micro), let alone OEM/System Builder *software*. However, not many places that carry *hardware* for the would-be system builder carry System Builder software packs (despite their availability) due to the fact that the BYOPC business takes away from the pre-built computer business (or so their thinking goes). If you do buy retail (as opposed to online/e-tail), you wind up going to a place like MicroCenter (or even the late and hated CompUSA) simply due to lack of availability elsewhere (or excessive markup).

Grand Master

PGHammer

Posted
Posted
No, it doesn't.

Windows Vista upgrade for Home prem - $119.99

OSX leopard upgrade - $129

OSX is not sold as retail package by apple so other price points are moot.

And as far as specific *required* components....

Both motherboards and hard drives qualify as such (under the OEM Master EULA that Microsoft includes with all System Builder licenses, including those for Windows and Office, since Office 97). It usually doesn't have to be both; it can be one *or* the other. (However, not even Microsoft is that sticky over OEM licensure.) The biggest issue isn't System Builder licenses (at least in the US) other than the reality that retail availability of such software is not where it should be. That, however, is largely due to the pervasiveness of thinking like that a poster from NZ brought up in this thread (storefronts that sell motherboards and other hardware to the BYOPC crowd not stocking/carrying System Builder software, such as Office, due to a perceived threat to their complete-system business).

Proficient

.tony

Posted
Posted
Um..? There is no "upgrade" version--just a retail version that works for everything.

That is true, but essentially it is an upgrade as you cannot install it on another system unless it's a Mac by their terms and conditions, OSX86 doesn't count. Generally it's bought to upgrade a Mac system which already has Mac OSX.

Grand Master

giga Veteran

Posted
  • Veteran
Posted
That is true, but essentially it is an upgrade as you cannot install it on another system unless it's a Mac by their terms and conditions, OSX86 doesn't count. Generally it's bought to upgrade a Mac system which already has Mac OSX.

Not under all conditions. I've upgraded several hard drives on macs--those would all count as clean installs.

Grand Master

Andrew Lyle Global Moderator

Posted
  • Global Moderator
Posted

I can't wait for more videos and images of Windows 7. It seems like everyone is actually wanting this version of Vista 2.0, and so far it looks like everyone will take to this, including Paul Thurrott? or will he bash Windows once more?

Also, you can see some screen shots HERE of Windows 7 multi-touch in progress

Veteran

y_notm

Posted
Posted
Not under all conditions. I've upgraded several hard drives on macs--those would all count as clean installs.

that would count as an upgrade in windows too.

new install = non-qualifying previous version or computer with no OS. There aren't many Macs out there that fit those requirements.

Community Regular

Mikee99

Posted
Posted
I can't wait for more videos and images of Windows 7. It seems like everyone is actually wanting this version of Vista 2.0, and so far it looks like everyone will take to this, including Paul Thurrott? or will he bash Windows once more?

Paul Thurrott is anti-Windows? That's like saying Steve Jobs is pro-Vista.

Grand Master

giga Veteran

Posted
  • Veteran
Posted
that would count as an upgrade in windows too.

new install = non-qualifying previous version or computer with no OS. There aren't many Macs out there that fit those requirements.

There aren't many PCs that fit that either. The main attraction of a full install is that there are no strings attached in previous installs--something that's not possible with "upgrade" DVDs.

I don't even know why I'm being called out on semantics though--Leopard retail is a full install. Period. It's true that many users would probably only need to upgrade (just like your average PC user), but that's completely off the point of the difference in an upgrade and full install.

Grand Master

Andrew Lyle Global Moderator

Posted
  • Global Moderator
Posted
Paul Thurrott is anti-Windows? That's like saying Steve Jobs is pro-Vista.

For a guy who works at Microsoft, he has written a lot of articles that doesn't help Vista's situation what so ever, if anything, he mad Vista look really bad in the eyes of his readers. He wasn't fully against Vista, but at the beginning he was. I think SP1 changed his mind about Vista however.

Grand Master

Hurmoth

Posted
Posted
For a guy who works at Microsoft, he has written a lot of articles that doesn't help Vista's situation what so ever, if anything, he mad Vista look really bad in the eyes of his readers. He wasn't fully against Vista, but at the beginning he was. I think SP1 changed his mind about Vista however.

Paul Thurrott doesn't work for or at Microsoft. He is a news editor for Windows IT Pro Magazine and has written several books on Windows, but he's never worked directly for Microsoft.

Paul isn't anti-Windows either, far from it. He had bashed Microsoft publicly for some of Microsoft's poor judgment calls on Vista, but he has, for a very long time (even before SP1) praised the OS itself.

[edit] In his initial review of the OS, he gave Vista a 4 out of 5 rating: http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/winvista.asp (Published: November 6, 2006)

Guest xiphi

Posted
Posted
For a guy who works at Microsoft, he has written a lot of articles that doesn't help Vista's situation what so ever, if anything, he mad Vista look really bad in the eyes of his readers. He wasn't fully against Vista, but at the beginning he was. I think SP1 changed his mind about Vista however.

I don't recall a point when Paul was ever against Vista. The thing with Paul is that he's not afraid to speak his mind, but he's always praised Vista. Just listen to his podcasts on Twit.

Grand Master

Eric Veteran

Posted
  • Veteran
Posted
bah...looks like Vista with a new face....nuthin special

I'm sure they'll take all those suggestions to heart... ;)

Mer.. it looks even more bloated.

Again... nice qualified opinion. I'm sure Microsoft will be glad to implement your non-existent suggestions as well...

Guest xiphi

Posted
Posted
Looks decent. Personally, I don't think we'll see any major UI changes in 7. Just re-organization and a few tweaks here and there. Some people seem to be expecting a full makeover but I doubt that will happen...

I think many people expect that a UI change will mean a better system. But the reality is, the backend will still be the same no matter what UI MS chooses. Just because 7 still looks like Vista does not mean it will inherit the same issues Vista had. It just means it'll be more polished and thoughtout. Isn't that what people want?

Grand Master

Eric Veteran

Posted
  • Veteran
Posted
Take a look here :

http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/300.html

300+ New Features. And that's what you call only security fix?

Looks like the standard crap Apple features list that they, erm, bloated to make it look better.

Movie clips in Dashboard?

A semi-transparent menu bar? Copy Vista much?

Language localizations?

And my favorite:

# Microsoft WHQL-Certified Windows Drivers

Enjoy the unique hardware features of your Mac including the iSight camera, trackpad scrolling, keyboard backlighting, and volume keys using fully compatible Windows drivers.

Your Mac is so great we're providing better drivers for the hardware... for another operating system!

Shall we add up the things changed from XP to Vista and see who has more "new features?"

Grand Master

Izlude

Posted
Posted

It is unlikely they're gonna make something different from glass. Non-beta stages or not, the UI is here to stay. They said in one article "we've implemented different color glass per application to the user's choice"

If we have another longhorn-vista (scrapping of all the nice features promised in 03) THEN we'll most likely see glass disappear.

Grand Master

Hurmoth

Posted
Posted
Id rather Microsoft just polish Vista itself not release as a new OS.

Windows 7: Too Soon?

Windows 7 can and should be considered Vista Release 2 (R2). In fact, I think Microsoft should market the business versions of the OS under that very name. Beginning with the release of Vista SP1 and Windows Server 2008, Microsoft no longer forks its Windows code tree for new releases. So the next versions of Windows client (7), Windows Server (2008 R2), and Windows Home Server (WHS) will all be based from exactly the same code. Microsoft will simply combine the right components to create the Windows version it wants and ship it. It's a much simpler system than before.

In fact, at least one Microsoftie, speaking off the record during my trip to Redmond last week, explained that Windows 7, in many ways, would simply be Vista SP2. From a compatibility standpoint, all the work Microsoft is doing will show up in Vista first and will work identically in Windows 7. It's not changing the underlying platform at all, so if a hardware device or software application works on Vista, it will work fine on 7 as well.

Microsoft is doing exactly what Apple is doing with their next release. They're polishing it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_7#Focus

You've let us know you don't want to face the kinds of incompatibility challenges with the next version of Windows you might have experienced early with Windows Vista. As a result, our approach with Windows 7 is to build off the same core architecture as Windows Vista so the investments you and our partners have made in Windows Vista will continue to pay off with Windows 7. Our goal is to ensure the migration process from Windows Vista to Windows 7 is straightforward.
Grand Master

giga Veteran

Posted
  • Veteran
Posted
Looks like the standard crap Apple features list that they, erm, bloated to make it look better.

Movie clips in Dashboard?

A semi-transparent menu bar? Copy Vista much?

Language localizations?

And my favorite:

Your Mac is so great we're providing better drivers for the hardware... for another operating system!

Shall we add up the things changed from XP to Vista and see who has more "new features?"

/facepalm. Microsoft didn't provide drivers for OS X--they did for Vista on mac hardware.

Grand Master

Hurmoth

Posted
Posted
Wow that explains so much..

I wonder if we will have to buy Windows 7?; of course I shouldn't ask such a question because there's features (that we don't know of) that Microsoft might put in Windows

Time will reveal.

Of course we're going to have to buy Windows 7, just like Leopard users will have to buy Snow Leopard. These companies are still in the business of making money.

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