My RROD fix

[FiB3R]

OK, so my 360 has been dead for a while, but I can bring it back to life using the "towel trick"

I could pay around ?60 to have it "re-flowed" but that comes with no guarantees!! (I also know you can get them at Sainsburys for like ?100, but I'm going on holiday in about 2 weeks so money is tight)

So I'm thinking that if I perform a few small mods, it might fix it once and for all. (I have my doubts)

I'm going to do the "X-Clamp Mod", lap the heat sinks, and replace the fans with the Talismoon Whisper Max ones. This is a lot cheaper, and sounds like a fun little project.

Before I go ahead and order these parts, has anybody got any experience of doing this? Is it worth it? Will it work? Any other constructive input?

Thank:):)

Edit: Please don't ask why I don't just send it back to Microsoft to be repaired or replaced. Obviously, if I could, I would.[/size;);)Linksb>

Wilhelm's Improved X-Clamp Fix/replacement Tutorial (1.2)

Lapping 1

Lapping 2Partsb>

X-Clamp fix kit

Heatsink Lapping Kit

Talismoon Whisper Max

[ToneKnee]

I wish you good-luck on your question to fix the RRoD issue! :)

[Numpad]

you CAN send it to them and give them ?60 if u have voided warrenty... they will give you another years warranty for it.. thats what i did, and i'm glad i did because it went wrong straight after i got it back.. but they gave me a free wirelss controller! lol

[magik]

Good luck. Keep us posted. (Y)

you CAN send it to them and give them ?60 if u have voided warrenty... they will give you another years warranty for it.. thats what i did, and i'm glad i did because it went wrong straight after i got it back.. but they gave me a free wirelss controller! lol

I'm pretty sure you meantexpired> warranty, notvoided> warranty, no? As I'd be surprised if Microsoft would renew a warranty that was voided by modification, etc.

[Numpad]

well when i sent mine in i had voided mine... well, i ripped the sticker, never managed to actually get the xbox open though! lol

[Andrew Lyle Global Moderator]

I think the chip is probably overheated and won't last much longer. You can't fix this problem without replacing the motherboard. If you actually take your xbox360 apart, the motherboard will have little brown / black burn marks on it.

[FiB3R]

I think the chip is probably overheated and won't last much longer. You can't fix this problem without replacing the motherboard. If you actually take your xbox360 apart, the motherboard will have little brown / black burn marks on it.

Don't remember seeing those last time I looked. I'll have a close inspection soon.

[SiCKX]

This is just a temp fix.

BGA,reballing helps much more...it's not guaranteed either.

[FiB3R]

This is just a temp fix.

BGA,reballing helps much more...it's not guaranteed either.

Is that the same as re-flowing?

[PiracyX]

Doing the towel trick as this will kill your 360 and damage the components even more.

Stop doing it right now.

The best way to fix it, is with reballing the CPU & GPU with Lead solder. It's almost a perm solution regardless of the Heatsink used as the solder will be strong and not make the mobo bend upwards from the excessive heat.

If you can send it off to someone to can do a reball then do it. He/She might only charge you if they are sucessful and just charge you postage if unsucessful.

That is best solution you can do. I wouldn't attempt the X-clamp at all.

X-Clamp, Towel trick, Oven trick = Temp fix

Reballing CPU& GPU = close to Perm fix almost.

[Berserk87]

and the eraseres under the ram chips.

[neoadorable]

again with the dissent-talk, darkfiber, i am watching you... :cool:

sounds like a nice project, but i'd personally send her in.

[FiB3R]

Well, against all the warnings, I've gone ahead and ordered the parts.

I justified it like this...

1) The X-Clamp mod, stops the mobo from bending around the CPU. (stopping the solder from pulling away, and keeping the heatsink flush to the CPU) So just one more go of the towel trick to reconnect the solder joints.

2) Lapping the heatsinks, plus a little Arctic Silver could (at best) knock about 4 degrees off the temp of the CPU and GPU.

3) I believe the Talismoon fans perform better and quieter, even at their reduced speed.

Whether it works or not, I still think these are beneficial mods, and could be transferred to a repaired/new machine. So no money lost if it all go's ###### up.

Feel free to comment on what a big mistake this is. I'll keep you posted on how it go's.

[PiracyX]

Feel free to comment on what a big mistake this is. I'll keep you posted on how it go's.

You've made a terrible mistake :laugh:

Nah, Let us know how things progress on this.

[Brad.]

Good luck!

My 360 is out of warranty soon and I might mod the casing/fans in the new year. Maybe even buy a new console with HDMI output :p

[Scazza]

Good luck dude.

Mine is nearly out of warrenty too, even with the extended one! It is a Day 1 Launch Console (Premium) and has done me so proud! Hoping it lasts all the way but you just don't know!

[FiB3R]

you're one of the lucky ones. I bought mine around Xmas 06, and it's been sent back twice. My mate was with me when I bought mine, and he bought one too. His is still going strong. :/

[FiB3R]

Lapping kit arrived today. Time to get messy.

Will post pics later. :)

[Sethos]

We need tons of pictures, I'm curious about this (Y)

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

Take pics of each step or something, let us see how you did everything :)

Will be more interesting that way imo, not that I haven't read and watched the repair process loads already :laugh:

I think it will be the first documented time a Neowin member has done it, so worth taking time to do it proper :p

[Jase]

Whoa.. I am having the same RROD problem.. it will cost me $100 AUD to fix it.. I will try the towl fix and see how that goes.

[Phemo]

1) The X-Clamp mod, stops the mobo from bending around the CPU. (stopping the solder from pulling away, and keeping the heatsink flush to the CPU) So just one more go of the towel trick to reconnect the solder joints.

Ok, my input - it's worth going for the xclamp fix etc. It likely won't be a permanent fix, but it should help you get at least a few more months out of the console.

However, do not bother with the towel trick even just one more time. It does not reconnect the solder joints at all. The solder used in the 360 melts at 218 degrees C - if you overheat your 360, it doesn't get anywhere near 218 degrees C. The reason it sometimes works for a while is because the temperature causes the board to flex/warp a bit (this is why in the long run the towel trick will do more harm than good) but it does not reconnect any broken solder joints. If you're not willing to use a heatgun or whatever then don't even bother with the towel trick because it's likely that just the xclamp fix on its own will get the box working again for a bit.

Whenever I get a 360 to repair I blast the GPU area with a heatgun for a bit (which actually will get to the temperatures needed to melt the solder) and then replace the xclamps with bolts. In addition I use rubber pads under the board to stop it flexing downwards. These fixes won't be permanent but they usually get the console working again for at least a few more months.

[FiB3R]

Thanks for the input Phemo, I was thinking about using a heat gun, I've seen a video, and I've got one here. But to be honest, I'm a little scared of doing it. It looks very easy to get wrong. Wouldn't that cause the mobo to flex too? I hear what your saying about the melting point of the solder. I don't know if it's true, but it sounds like you know what your talking about, so... I think I'm gonna have to go to the shop and buy some tin foil, to protect the rest of the mobo while I blast it. Scary ****.

EDIT: Should I attach the heatsink with the bolts while the board is still hot?

Edited October 12, 2008 by DARKFiB3R

[Phemo]

I'd lay off the heatgun first off. Just go for the xclamp replacement without baking/oven/heatgun/whatever. Hopefully if you get the bolts done up right it'll fire up and should work. Just a note on the bolts also - a lot of people seem to do them up real tight - this isn't needed. I just use a small screwdriver and only use the force from my fingers to do it up, without needing to use the force in my arm.

Give it a go like that and hopefully you'll get it going :) I'd then try the heatgun afterwards if it doesn't work or if it dies again a few months down the line. After heatgunning it's best to leave the board alone for half hour to 45 mins to let it completely cool off before even so much as moving it as it could do more damage to the board. I have seen a RAM chip slide out of place on a motherboard before ;) Also if it's not completely cooled off and the solder is still soft, fixing the heatsinks to the board could crush the solder balls on the BGA chips which would render the board pretty much useless.

As for the heatgun flexing the board, yes it's absolutely possible. The trick is never to leave the heatgun still and to keep the board flat while heatgunning it. If you're not confident I wouldn't risk it yet. Use it as a last resort trick - after all, if everything else fails and the heatgun is the only remaining option it doesn't matter if you screw it up totally :)

A professional reballing is the best long term fix, but it's hard work and you'd need to find someone a). with the right kit and b). be prepared to pay for it. A fair bit of work is involved so it wouldn't be a cheap procedure.

[FiB3R]

OK, I'll see how it go's with just the x-clamp fix, new fans and lapped heat sinks, as you and PiracyX think the towel trick is a really bad idea. I wasn't really looking forward to using a heat gun for anything other than stripping paint anyway.

I'm assuming that the firm I contacted about re-flowing, are just going to use the heat gun method anyway?

Have you got a rough idea of how much re-balling would cost?