Does the Superbar still look like crap at 120DPI?

By C++
in The Fast Ring (Insider Previews)

 Share

Recommended Posts

Veteran

C++

Posted
  • Author
Posted
DPI Settings are completely fixed in Windows 7. They demonstrated it at PDC, and it all looks great.

Screenies:

http://www.istartedsomething.com/20081029/...er-than-your-7/

Dammit, that's not fixed at all... 120DPI still stretches 16x16 icons, and it looks like ass. :crazy:

Veteran

C++

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Er, so crappy res icons look crappy when stretched? Why does this not surprise me?

What are you expecting to happen?

I don't know, maybe not stretching them? There is no reason why they couldn't stay at 16x16 with only the clickable area around them being increased. Or how about downscaling 32 pixel versions instead?

Yea, clearly there is nothing that could be done...

Grand Master

gigapixels Veteran

Posted
  • Veteran
Posted
I don't know, maybe not stretching them? There is no reason why they couldn't stay at 16x16 with only the clickable area around them being increased. Or how about downscaling 32 pixel versions instead?

Yea, clearly there is nothing that could be done...

Not stretching them is just ridiculous. The whole point of increasing the DPI is for people who cannot see the interface clearly at the smaller DPI settings, so keeping an icon at its original size while increasing the size of everything else will leave that icon just as hard to see as it was before. And as far as using a larger-sized icon and downscaling it, that would require that developers include a larger-sized icon for the system tray icon, which probably won't happen often, if at all.

Veteran

C++

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Not stretching them is just ridiculous. The whole point of increasing the DPI is for people who cannot see the interface clearly at the smaller DPI settings, so keeping an icon at its original size while increasing the size of everything else will leave that icon just as hard to see as it was before. And as far as using a larger-sized icon and downscaling it, that would require that developers include a larger-sized icon for the system tray icon, which probably won't happen often, if at all.

How does stretching an icon by 2 frickin' pixels make anything more visible? It only makes icons blurry and harder to read. Look at the screenshot.

http://www.istartedsomething.com/wp-conten...2008/10/120.png

Grand Master

Denis W. Veteran

Posted
  • Veteran
Posted
I don't know, maybe not stretching them? There is no reason why they couldn't stay at 16x16 with only the clickable area around them being increased. Or how about downscaling 32 pixel versions instead?

Yea, clearly there is nothing that could be done...

Microsoft can't just magically whip up 32x32 tray icons for those apps who only designate 16x16 icons for the tray, especially animating/changing icons. In any case, for apps such as Windows Live Messenger, they won't use the tray anymore, instead opting for the taskbar button instead.

They have done their own part to properly scale up their own main three tray icons: Volume, Power, and Network look pixel sharp at 120 DPI. Action Center's icon in 6801 is gone from the later builds.

post-99705-1227389687.png

Also I noticed Windows 7 uses XP-style DPI scaling by default... any reason?

Grand Master

gigapixels Veteran

Posted
  • Veteran
Posted
How does stretching an icon by 2 frickin' pixels make anything more visible? It only makes icons blurry and harder to read. Look at the screenshot.

http://www.istartedsomething.com/wp-conten...2008/10/120.png

I already looked at the screenshot. I'd say that's far better than leaving it the same size as before.

Grand Master

Kirkburn

Posted
Posted
How does stretching an icon by 2 frickin' pixels make anything more visible?

We are talking about increasing the size of stuff on the screen ... so yes, it will be increased in size, as that is the point.

If the icons weren't scaled up, it wouldn't be doing the job its supposed to be doing. Yes, this is bad for old icons at crap resolutions. No, there isn't some magical solution.

Grand Master

Simon Veteran

Posted
  • Veteran
Posted

The "magical solution" everyone is looking for lies in vectorized graphics, rather than rasterized ones. Microsoft should be supporting them, but as far as I know they do not. SVG rendering is something that should, without a doubt, be built into Windows 7 for icons, as an *option* for developers. You'll still get the ones who like the PNG's, but with a little extra effort, those who make the icons can have one that scales infinitely.

But as for the blurry icons, if 2 pixels doesn't make a difference for being able to see them, then a) you probably don't need to change your DPI anyway, and b) it shouldn't blur them to the point of distracting you. DPI scaling compensates for smaller items on a screen, and a 16x16 icon is definitely one of them.

Veteran

C++

Posted
  • Author
Posted
The "magical solution" everyone is looking for lies in vectorized graphics, rather than rasterized ones. Microsoft should be supporting them, but as far as I know they do not. SVG rendering is something that should, without a doubt, be built into Windows 7 for icons, as an *option* for developers. You'll still get the ones who like the PNG's, but with a little extra effort, those who make the icons can have one that scales infinitely.

But as for the blurry icons, if 2 pixels doesn't make a difference for being able to see them, then a) you probably don't need to change your DPI anyway, and b) it shouldn't blur them to the point of distracting you. DPI scaling compensates for smaller items on a screen, and a 16x16 icon is definitely one of them.

But it does make a difference, it makes them less readable than just keeping them at 16 pixels. Here is a random screenshot of someone's notification area at 120DPI. Would you call this "more visible"?

vista_dpi_scaling_problem_programs.png

And yes I do actually need the 120DPI setting, for the fonts, which is what the option boasts to increase in the first place. A 15.4" WUXGA screen isn't very readable at 96DPI.

Grand Master

Denis W. Veteran

Posted
  • Veteran
Posted

They could try coding in a bilinear filter to upscale the icons, much like how Vista stretches non-DPI aware windows by default. Would that work?

Veteran

C++

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I stand by my first suggestion of just keeping the icons at 16 pixels. If you need bigger icons, cursors or window handles, separate options exist for that. The font DPI option has no reason to enlarge things other than fonts, especially when it actually makes those other things less readable than they were before. In the end, this option is purely about readability. And clearly, what it does to icons does not help in that department.

Grand Master

Kirkburn

Posted
Posted

Where is this referred to as "font" DPI (in Windows 7), and how are you making the distinction for "readability"? How does readability solely mean bigger fonts, when a lot of programs and functions are icon based, especially for the less literate, or hard of sight?

In addition, you realise huge fonts and small everything else would look far far more ridiculous, with fonts going outside their bounds, icons being in the wrong places, etc, etc...

Yes, those icons look bad - few will dispute that - but I don't think that is entirely the fault of Windows - developers should be creating higher resolution icons. SVG would fix it, but only for future icons. It does appear that the filter for old icon could be improved, but there's only so much you can do for pixel artwork.

Grand Master

jakem1

Posted
Posted
The "magical solution" everyone is looking for lies in vectorized graphics, rather than rasterized ones. Microsoft should be supporting them, but as far as I know they do not. SVG rendering is something that should, without a doubt, be built into Windows 7 for icons, as an *option* for developers. You'll still get the ones who like the PNG's, but with a little extra effort, those who make the icons can have one that scales infinitely.

But as for the blurry icons, if 2 pixels doesn't make a difference for being able to see them, then a) you probably don't need to change your DPI anyway, and b) it shouldn't blur them to the point of distracting you. DPI scaling compensates for smaller items on a screen, and a 16x16 icon is definitely one of them.

From memory Microsoft have stated that they don't intend to use SVG for icons because large icons with lots of detail become meaningless at 16x16. Microsoft's position on icons is that 16x16 icons should display a slightly different image to 32x32 and above to make the meaning of the icon clear and recognisable with the smaller pixel count.

Grand Master

Brandon Live Veteran

Posted
  • Veteran
Posted

There's a blog post on the E7 blog about vectorized icons. It isn't the fix-all "magic" solution that some people here make it out to be. That's why nobody implements them.

Notification icons other than the system ones are hidden by default now, so they'll be less of an eyesore. You can't selectively scale things that may or may not look bad... Windows tries to determine if apps are high DPI aware and do special scaling on the app window if it does not, but this is a compatibility measure not a real solution.

The right solution is for apps to do a better job supporting high DPI. We can help by giving developers tools to make this easier, and by building some high DPI awareness into standard components that developers use, but in the end it's up to them to provide the appropriate icons and to test their layout logic at higher DPI settings.

DPI is not font size. If you want to change just the font size, there is an option for that and it will have no impact on your icons.

I run Win7 at the 150% DPI setting at home on my 1080p media center, and it works great.

This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share
Go to topic listing

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Posts

    • Waymo recalls self-driving software after cars enter closed freeway work zones

      By MrElectrifyer · Posted

      Likely nothing will be done in corporate America, there have been countless Tesla self-driving incidents. Then again, there have also been countless human operated incidents. It's literally daily news here in Canada, to the extent that it's now odd if we get a day where a collision doesn't get announced on the radio throughout the day...
    • SKG Hand Massager with Heat OS500 hands on

      By Steven P. · Posted

      SKG Hand Massager with Heat OS500 hands on by Steven Parker I was offered the chance to test out the SKG Hand Massager with Heat OS500, and full disclosure, they let me keep it regardless of my findings. Anyway, I jumped at the chance due to my long hours sitting at my desk, mousing around. Apologies for the knife cut across the top of the box; that was my doing, being a bit too heavy-handed with opening up the outer packaging. First up, what's in the box: SKG Hand Massager with Heat OS500 1x Type-C charging cable User Manual 1-Year Warranty (card) In short, everything you need to get started. According to the official Amazon listing, here are the key features: Full-Hand Air Compression: OS500 wraps your fingers, palm, and wrist with multi-chamber air compression for a complete hand relaxation experience. The extended massage chamber helps cover more of the hand and wrist area than standard palm-only hand massagers Palm Kneading with 6 Modes & 6 Intensities: Built-in palm kneading rollers add a hands-on massage feel, while 6 preset modes and 6 pressure levels let you choose the comfort level that fits your day—from gentle relaxation to a firmer full-hand massage 3 Heat Levels with Cooling Fan: Choose from 104°F, 113°F or 122°F warmth to suit different seasons and comfort preferences. The built-in cooling fan helps reduce stuffiness during heated sessions, keeping your hand feeling fresh and comfortable Easy Visual Display & Smart Timer: The digital image display clearly shows massage area, mode, intensity, heat level, and remaining time at a glance. Select 10, 15, or 20-minute sessions for quick office breaks, evening relaxation, or everyday hand care Rechargeable, Cordless & Comfortable: A 3000mAh battery supports over 90 minutes of full-function use on a full charge, with convenient USB-C charging. The soft inner lining, smooth ABS/PU finish, and premium black-gold design make OS500 ideal for home, office, or gifting With all that out of the way, here are my own findings. I gave it a try on both left and right hands, and as you can maybe see from the above YouTube Short, (sorry for the shaky video), my whole hand fits in, but my wrist barely enters the Hand Massager. I was able to push through a bit more with my fingertips extending out the other end to get a bit of massaging on the start of my wrist. Usage For some reason, there is a strap that is very difficult to fasten to my wrist with one hand. I am not sure what function it has, and it isn't mentioned in the user manual. The only thing I could find was in the product images that claimed "wrist precision". Unlike the Bob and Brad Hand Massager, this device does not massage the wrist anyway, even though a "wrist mode" is mentioned, which must be for smaller hands than I have, as it is mainly intended for the hand and fingers. In addition, for its steeper price, there are no disposable gloves provided in the box, which is a bit of an issue considering the internal cover (which appears to be elasticated nylon) cannot be removed for washing; so you are left with only one choice: always thoroughly wash your hands before using it. I can imagine this thing getting a bit grimy after a period of use, and that is a bit of a shame. With that said, the buttons on the device, from left to right, do the following: Heat button: 3-level heat control at 104°F, 113°F, or 122°F Mode button: Auto mode Circular mode Soothing mode Relax mode Palm and fingers mode Palm and wrist mode Intensity button: from (First-time users) 15Ka, 25Ka, 35Ka, 45Ka, 55Ka, 60Ka (Intensive relief) Knead button: on or off (6 pressure levels) Power button: Long-press to turn on or off Cooling button: turn on or off the cooling fan Also, in the product imagery, it states there are 36 "custom modes," but nowhere is it listed what these modes are. I can only imagine that they mean a combination of all of the above settings in different intensity levels. The device itself seems to rely on a single "kneading" mechanism located at the palm area of the hand, which spins when in use, and the other massage features are mainly utilized through the air sacs, increasing and decreasing at various levels on the hand and fingers. I am not sure it offered too much relief for someone who is typing and operating a mouse for hours at a time; further testing may be required. It does feel nice, though. Finally, you may be wondering how this fits into the scope of a tech website? Well, let me tell you something: sometimes I sit for up to 15 hours working on Neowin, and although I take breaks in between, it takes a toll on my body. I think in the immediate absence of a partner to apply relief, a good massager like this Hand Massager can shed the strains of the day in just a couple of 15-minute bursts. On the official website, this has an MSRP of $99.99, but luckily for our readers, it is selling at $10 off for just $89.99 right now on Amazon. SKG Hand Massager with Heat OS500 for $89.99 (with $10 off coupon), $99.99 MSRP For me, this gets a thumbs hands(?) down. However, it could be improved by making it so that the protective covering could be removed and thrown into the washing machine, or get yourself some disposable gloves to use with it. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.
    • Creative Sound Blaster AE-X PCIe review: your headphones will love it

      By Taliseian · Posted

      Thanks for the info, but I'm still not sure if I need this....
    • We check out the SKG PS700 Neck Massager

      By Steven P. · Posted

      We check out the SKG PS700 Neck Massager by Steven Parker I was offered the chance to test out the SKG PS700 Neck Massager, and full disclosure, they let me keep it regardless of my findings. Anyway, I jumped at the chance due to my long hours sitting at my desk; I figured it could offer some neck pain relief. What's in the box: SKG PS700-2 Neck Massager Rechargeable Battery (inside massager) Type-C USB cable User Manual Quick Start guide 1-Year Warranty In short, everything you need to get started. According to the official listing, here are the key features: Biomimetic Kneading & High Torque Motor: Designed with innovative biomimetic kneading heads that perfectly simulate the touch of human hands. Powered by a high-torque motor, this massager delivers powerful and precise deep tissue relief to effectively target stiff neck muscles and release built-up tension Soothing Heat & Integrated Sound Relaxation: Experience the ultimate Relaxationation with our dual-action approach. The soothing heat function gently warms your neck, while the built-in sound Relaxation provides calming audio tracks, helping you achieve a state of mindfulness and mental tranquility during your physical massage Cordless Convenience & Travel-Ready & Father's Day Gifts: Crafted for maximum portability and ease of use. Its lightweight, cordless design allows you to enjoy a premium massage anywhere without the hassle of tangled wires-whether you're taking a quick break at your desk or winding down at home Versatile Relief for Home & Office: An essential wellness companion for office workers, gamers, frequent travelers, or anyone looking to integrate mindfulness into their daily routine. It seamlessly fits into your lifestyle, providing instant neck relief whenever and wherever you need it Safe & Premium Materials: Manufactured with high-quality, skin-friendly materials to ensure a safe and comfortable experience without irritation. SKG backs this device with dedicated customer service, making it a thoughtful tech-health gift for family and friends App & Bluetooth Music Control: Connect via Bluetooth to control your massage settings through the dedicated app and enjoy your favorite music during your massage session for a fully customizable and immersive relaxation experience Red Light Warmth Technology: Features advanced red light warmth technology that penetrates deep into neck muscles to enhance blood circulation and provide soothing comfort while relieving muscle tension and stiffness Design With all that out of the way, here are my own findings. SKG does not say what materials are used to make the neck massager. However, on the product website, it mentions "soft-touch silicone" with what looks like PU leather cushioning, with the rest being mostly made up of plastics. On the inside of the massager, there are two "biomimetic kneading heads" that are motorized for the different styles of massage, which are not actually listed at all in the paper user manual, but the standard included modes are: De-stress mode, Mediation mode, Relax mode, Shiatsu mode. The massager looks quite premium and is actually very comfortable to wear. This massager is small and light enough to go anywhere, as it doesn't get in the way of anything, so I was able to use it in the chair while writing this review. Unlike the back massager, SKG does not warn in the user guide not to use it for more than 30 minutes a day (or two 15-minute sessions). However, there is a long laundry list of important safeguards to consider before and during the use of the device, and it is warned that the neck massager is not waterproof. It also includes a 1,400mAh battery with a rated power of 14W and input of 5V, which is the standard for up to USB 3.0 power (although the Amperage is not mentioned at all). SKG does not say how long it takes to charge, but a quick calculation at 2A (if that is what it is) would mean it would take roughly 1.5 hrs to charge from empty. In any case, the light around the button changes from orange to green on a full charge. In addition, it is not possible to use the device while it is charging. On the right of the neck massager is the On/Off and modes button, which also acts as a joystick. You can operate all the modes directly from the power button, as well as the app, which I'll get into a bit later: Push up: Short press to adjust Heat levels On/Off button: long press Mode Switching: Short press (while in operation) ➕ Push left: increase Music volume ➖ push right: decrease Music volume Push down: Short-press to turn Music on or off The massager defaults to De-stress mode, and it is not stated anywhere if the neck massager has overheat protection. This time around, regarding heat, the only detail I could find is that it has "triple action soothing heat." The temperature stages are not listed anywhere in the paper manual, Amazon listing, or official website. The heat levels can be adjusted through the app or directly on the device using the joystick button. Usage There's also the SKG Health app, which makes using the massager far easier than feeling around for the button on the side of your neck. If the app is stopped, you are required to log in with a verification code over email, which I am not too pleased with, as this means it will only work that way for however long SKG decides to support it through said app. However, I was not able to get the app to connect to the OS500, which I have reported back to my contact. Bluetooth appeared to be working on the neck massager as it became available to pair with my phone, but the SKG app failed to discover it. Before I forget, there's also a switch next to the USB charging port to deactivate and activate the Voice Prompt, which, when enabled, audibly tells the user when switching intensities, modes, or connecting to the app and informs when the massages start and are completed. That said, on to my likes and dislikes, which are listed below. What I didn't like Unable to connect the Neck Massager to the app Use through the mobile app relies on continued support from SKG What I liked Can be used without the app Cordless use Light and comfortable to wear Heat is also quite comfortable Where to buy: According to the official website, this has an MSRP of $249.99, but is currently $50 (on Amazon). To sweeten the deal a bit more, there's also an in-page coupon that knocks a further $20 off the price. SKG PS700-2 Neck Massager for $179.99 on Amazon (was $199.99) Apply the in-page $20 off coupon for the final price of $179.99 Just like the back massager, this gets a confused thumbs up (due to the cost). However, I cannot rate it through app usage as it failed to connect. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.
    • This Samsung T7 external SSD deal lasts less than a day

      By hellowalkman · Posted

      This Samsung T7 external SSD deal lasts less than a day by Sayan Sen Recently we had covered some nice deals of internal NVMe SSDs which include the 4TB TeamGroup G50 for only $400, the WD_BLACK SN7100 2TB for just $243, as well as the Samsung 990 PRO 1TB for $370. If however you require an external SSD for portability and quick data transfers and have a budget of less than $200 the Samsung T7 1TB model is currently on a limited time deal at just $190, it's lowest price in nearly three months. The deal ends today so you better hurry if you need one (purchase link below). The T7 weighs in at just 72 grams meaning it should be fairly easy to carry around helping in the portability department. Via its USB 3.2 Gen 2 interface the T7 promises sequential read speeds of up to 1050 MB/s and writes of 1000 MB/s. It is also fairly robust with a drop protection of up to 2 meters, though bear in mind that this is not waterproof. For that you will have to choose the rugged T7 Shield. The technical specifications of the Samsung T7 1TB are given in the table below: Specification Value Model Code (1TB) MU-PC1T0T / MU-PC1T0H Interface USB 3.2 Gen 2 (10 Gbps) Dimensions (W × H × D) 85 × 57 × 8 mm Weight 72 g Sequential Read Speed Up to 1,050 MB/s Sequential Write Speed Up to 1,000 MB/s Drop Resistance Up to 2 m (6.6 ft) Encryption AES 256-bit hardware encryption Operating Temperature 0°C to 60°C Non-Operating Temperature -40°C to 85°C Humidity 5% to 95% (non-condensing) Shock Resistance 1,500 G, duration 0.5 ms, 3-axis (non-operating) Vibration Resistance 20–2,000 Hz, 20 G (non-operating) Get it at the link below: Samsung T7 Portable SSD, 1TB External Solid State Drive, MU-PC1T0T/AM, Gray: $189.98 (Sold and Shipped by Amazon US) Good to know This Amazon deal is U.S. specific, and not available in other regions unless specified. We only use first-party seller links (at the time of article publishing); ensure that you purchase from a first-party seller link only. Check out Today's Deals on Amazon | or our recent tech deals. Become a Prime member (for Students or SNAP) via Neowin Get Prime Access - Prime for half price (for qualifying Medicaid, EBT, SNAP) Subscribe to Prime Video, Audible Plus, Music Unlimited or Kindle Unlimited via Neowin As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

  • Recent Achievements

    • Dedicated
      Almohandis earned a badge
      Dedicated
    • Dedicated
      JuvenileDelinquent earned a badge
      Dedicated
    • First Post
      DrWankel earned a badge
      First Post
    • Reacting Well
      DrWankel earned a badge
      Reacting Well
    • Week One Done
      Supreme Spray LV earned a badge
      Week One Done

  • Popular Contributors

    1. 1
      +primortal
      505
    2. 2
      +Edouard
      184
    3. 3
      PsYcHoKiLLa
      85
    4. 4
      Michael Scrip
      78
    5. 5
      Steven P.
      76
    Show More

  • Tell a friend

    Love Neowin? Tell a friend!