Gran Turismo 5 - Christmas 2009

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Grand Master

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You just posted that the sales for the game as the series progress is actually on a decline which isn't really a good sign.

I have no idea why PD are taking their time with games. GT PSP was announced in 2004 and not a word about it except that it's still on it's way. Not setting deadlines to Developers is just going to cause problems and delays. Yeah, it may give them more time to fine tune the game but making people wait is going to put them off and turn to other games such as PGR and Forza. There is still no guarantee that GT5 will be amazing so it may end up being a fail, however that is highly unlikely.

It does seem like though that GT5:Prologue was a waste of time because it ultimately has meant this game is going to take longer to be finished.

10 million units of GT4 sold isn't a good sign? :blink: Most games get nowhere near those kind of sales, so I don't think going from 14.8 to 10 is a huge worry.

PD are taking their time with the amount of effort that goes in.

No guarantee GT5 will be amazing, no, but hardly something to worry about.

Look at GT-GT4 metacritic scores. PD always release top quality products, so the notion of "fail", chances of that happening are minuscule.

GT5:P was ripped outta the engine of GT5, releasing Prologue is hardly going to have an affect on final release schedules as it's reused material, not like it's standalone material development alongside GT5.

Every past GT had a Prologue apart from GT1 I think.

GT5 isn't going there, they're adding simple dammage modeling yeah, but outside of that they're not about to take the gameut of the comfort zone of their fans. They probably do eventually a few years down the line want to hit the same sales numbers as GT4.

Actually implementing GT TV, getting deals with Top Gear and all the other things they are doing for racing fans is hardly doing "nothing outside comfort zones".

Also turn GT off easy and play it and tell me it's not hardcore.

It's adaptable for various racing audiences, that is all.

Grand Master

HawkMan

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That's like saying the Halo 1/2 fanbase built up on the Xbox, had no relevance to those buying Halo 3 on the 360...

I allready covered this and said a lot of people have moved on to Forza or GR, either because they wanted more sim in the first case, or they got impatient(understandably so) in the second case.

Forza is the current winner by default as GT5 isn't even out, and what category is GT5 not in?

That's what I said.

I certainly hope you don't mean racing simulation...

as for category

Hardcore sims:

1: GTR (can't really be argued I think, unfortunately I didn't find evolution a very good game though.

2:Forza 2

Realistic Sims:

-GT5

-Forza (at this point without knowing too much about GT5 you can't really place them)

Semi Realistic sims:

1: PGR4

2: GT5P

3: PGR3

4: GT3&4 (last gen)

Arcade Sims/racers:

1:TDU

-NFS games somewhere on this catgory too.

Rated from most realistic/best simulation and down. ther are of course addition things to the gams such as Graphis, audio and car selection and all that.

Grand Master

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I allready covered this and said a lot of people have moved on to Forza or GR, either because they wanted more sim in the first case, or they got impatient(understandably so) in the second case.

Okay so GT3 sold 14.89 million, and GT4 just over 10 million.

Has Forza or PGR hit those kind of numbers? Because if not, I dunno where "a lot of people" comes from. Yeah racing fans will obviously have purchased Forza and PGR this generation, but to the point where the whole following of GT from the previous generations becomes irrelevant? :blink:

Sorry, but how popular brands/series were in previous generations is hugely relevant so I dunno why you're trying to downplay it.

I'm in no way dissing on PGR or Forza, great games, but some of what you're saying has me racking my brain.

That's what I said.

No, part of what you said.

You also said this

and GT5 won't change that as it's not even in that category really.

No idea how you know the critical success of GT5 already.

Also here is GT5 Prologue sales

By April 30, 2008, Gran Turismo 5 Prologue had shipped 2.23 million worldwide according to Sony Computer Entertainment and Polyphony Digital, with 270,000 units in Japan, 550,000 in North America, 1.38 million in Europe, and 30,000 in Asia.[2] As of June 2008, Gran Turismo 5 Prologue has shipped 270,000 copies in Japan, 610,000 in North America, 1.45 million in Europe, and 40,000 in Southeast Asia.[1]
Grand Master

HawkMan

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Again, you're focusing on compeltely poinltess points, the PS2 sold like what, 90 million so far(or did they hit 120?), the 360 has what 20-25now ?

Do you expect GT5 to magically sell 10 million in the first few weeks ?

A whole lot of those 14 and 10 million aren't sold to GT series fans, but rather to PS2 console owners who where reccomended it as their racing game. I'd wager that maybe around 10%, 1 Million... well that sounds a bit high... Are actually Hard core GT fans.

GT fan who haven't had a Current gen GT gam for 4 years, or a PS3 Generation GT game for 3 yeas by release time.

Grand Master

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Again, you're focusing on compeltely poinltess points, the PS2 sold like what, 90 million so far(or did they hit 120?), the 360 has what 20-25now ?

Do you expect GT5 to magically sell 10 million in the first few weeks ?

A whole lot of those 14 and 10 million aren't sold to GT series fans, but rather to PS2 console owners who where reccomended it as their racing game. I'd wager that maybe around 10%, 1 Million... well that sounds a bit high... Are actually Hard core GT fans.

GT fan who haven't had a Current gen GT gam for 4 years, or a PS3 Generation GT game for 3 yeas by release time.

The PS2 has sold like 130/140 million units now.

Do you expect GT5 to magically sell 10 million in the first few weeks ?

Of course not, I never said it would :blink:

It'll sell over time like every other GT game, and I have no idea how many it will sell. But previous generation sales show the popularity of the brand and give you an idea that it will continue to sell well.

A whole lot of those 14 and 10 million aren't sold to GT series fans, but rather to PS2 console owners who where reccomended it as their racing game. I'd wager that maybe around 10%, 1 Million... well that sounds a bit high... Are actually Hard core GT fans.

I have no idea how you're constructing this...

Grand Master

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not to start anything but...

i used to be a huge fan of the Gran Turismo series until Forza series on XBox/XBox360 came along... and now i just consider the overall gameplay in the GT series obsolete (even say GT4 (on PS2) vs Forza (on XBox))... cause the core gameplay just feels alot better in Forza series plus engine sounds are generally better in Forza to (although neither game is perfect in the sound dept).

p.s. i play Forza/Forza 2 with all assists off.... MUCH more fun/challenging that way.

cause basically Forza 2 is pretty much THE reason i have a XBox360 right now.

Grand Master

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Xbox and Gamecube say hi :unsure:

PS2 was the 1st to market (or 2nd depending where you place the DC).

Well it was second, the Dreamcast came about 16 months before.

I clarified my point, it wasn't first to market, and it done well. Just because you aren't first out doesn't = gloom and doom like some people in this topic think.

Every console journey is independent in terms of life cycle, again last generation showed that to an extreme, this generation I predict will be no where near as extreme. But the point stands, all 3 won't die off the same day, just like they weren't all released the same day.

A game coming out 2/3 years into one consoles lifecycle but 3/4 years in another's is hardly the massive issue some people in here are letting off. At least IMO, especially when Sony are reinstating their 10 year life cycle again.

Edited by Audioboxer
Grand Master

Sethos

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not to start anything but...

i used to be a huge fan of the Gran Turismo series until Forza series on XBox/XBox360 came along... and now i just consider the overall gameplay in the GT series obsolete (even say GT4 (on PS2) vs Forza (on XBox))... cause the core gameplay just feels alot better in Forza series plus engine sounds are generally better in Forza to (although neither game is perfect in the sound dept).

p.s. i play Forza/Forza 2 with all assists off.... MUCH more fun/challenging that way.

I agree (Y)

Grand Master

HawkMan

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The PS2 has sold like 130/140 million units now.

Of course not, I never said it would :blink:

Funny, because the way you put your arguments, is like you expect PGR4 to have sold s many units untill now as GT4 has done untill now to be just as popular.

Of course thes other games hasn't sold as much. PGR3 while great was more like prologue for 4, and PGR 4 has only been out for a year or two ish, on a console with a far smaller install base, while GT4 is comparatively retro on a console with a gigantic install base.

and again, different generations of systems and games.

I agree (Y)

Being a more casual player and not feeling liek dedicating the time to forz, I'd have to to become REALLY good, I prefer playing with TCS and ABS on, and the brake line for a littl guidance, the brake line usually starts too early anyway, and occasionally too late...

AS long as you enjoy it though, it's all good, wich is the dvantage of course, Forz can be fine tunes so it's enjoyable or the casual player who likes a challenge, or the hard core sim racer.

and unless you play on anal servers who insist on having everythign off, everyone an pay with the settings that best suites them and you get a much tighter racing experuence, without us crappy players sliding and crashign into all the pro's at the corners ;) that usually annoys them for some reason :p

Grand Master

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Funny, because the way you put your arguments, is like you expect PGR4 to have sold s many units untill now as GT4 has done untill now to be just as popular.

Of course thes other games hasn't sold as much. PGR3 while great was more like prologue for 4, and PGR 4 has only been out for a year or two ish, on a console with a far smaller install base, while GT4 is comparatively retro on a console with a gigantic install base.

and again, different generations of systems and games.

I don't expect PGR or Forza to have done GT numbers, right now those brands aren't as big as GT. There's no way in hell due to how young they are they could be at GT numbers. GT has been running since 1997.

I posted the GT numbers to show the strength of the brand to try and make you realize it's like the most important thing for GT5. Where as in your books, previous series sales mean nothing...

From May 2008...

GRAN TURISMO™ SERIES SHIPMENT EXCEEDS 50 MILLION UNITS WORLDWIDE

Remarkable Sales Achieved In Only 10 Years And 4 Months

Since The Original Gran Turismo Launched In 1997

Tokyo, May 9, 2008 – Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. (SCEI) announced today that the cumulative worldwide shipment of the Gran Turismo™ franchise, a genre-defining racing and car-life simulator available on PlayStation?, PlayStation?2, and PLAYSTATION?3 (PS3?) computer entertainment systems, has exceeded 50 million units as of April 30, 2008. This remarkable sales figure was achieved in just 10 years and 4 months since the launch of the first title in the franchise - Gran Turismo, in December 1997.

The Gran Turismo franchise, from the original Gran Turismo to the latest Gran Turismo™ 5 Prologue, has continued to evolve alongside the PlayStation platforms. With its outstanding game play, beautiful graphics and the true to life driving feel, the franchise is recognized as the world’s number one automotive game title on the PlayStation format, receiving high regard not just from game fans, but also from professional racing drivers and people in the automobile industry.

The seventh installment of the world’s best-selling racing franchise, Gran Turismo 5 Prologue introduces entirely new entertainment modes by taking advantage of the broadband network, such as online head-to head racing for up to 16 players, “GRAN TURISMO-TV”; a new in-game online channel that delivers automotive video contents from around the globe, and downloadable additional contents including new cars and courses, only possible on PS3. Gran Turismo 5 Prologue has recorded strong sales since the first launch in Japan in December, 2007, followed by North America and Europe in Spring of 2008, with more than 2 million units of cumulative shipment worldwide and contributing to the further expansion of the PS3 platform.

For all Gran Turismo fans around the world, SCEI and the developer of the Gran Turismo series - Polyphony Digital Inc., will continue hereon to vigorously promote development of the Gran Turismo series, which can be expected to evolve even further through the PS3 platform and broadband network environment.

“Initially, “Gran Turismo” was an “alternative” racing game, kind of an outsider in the genre.” said Kazunori Yamauchi, Producer of Gran Turismo.“And we made it thinking that it would be okay as long as it reached out to “the select few who would agree with us”. So this figure, 50 million units - is simply astounding. If you go to a game store and look for a particular package, and pay for it at the cash register, though the time may be very brief, it still takes at least 3 minutes or so. It’s simply mind boggling and hard to believe that this has been repeated 50 million times all around the world in the last 10 years. I would really like to thank all the fans who have supported the Gran Turismo series over the years, for all their passion and love of the game. We’d like to continue making every effort to create cutting edge, high quality games, so that we don’t disappoint anyone’s expectations.”

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Right now GT is to console racing market what Apple is to the MP3 market.

Things could be different in 5, 10 years time, but they are what they are right now, and that kind of brand strength is obviously vital to the success of GT5 if it's to have it.

You can also see Prologue version sales above, how low they are in comparison to the final product. Funnily enough this time around though on the PS3 Prologue has sold better than previous versions. Rightly so though, Prologue this time around was easily much more worth the cash than the older Prologues that had far less content.

Grand Master

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and unless you play on anal servers who insist on having everythign off, everyone an pay with the settings that best suites them and you get a much tighter racing experuence, without us crappy players sliding and crashign into all the pro's at the corners ;) that usually annoys them for some reason :p

lol ;) , i guess main reason i hate the game when assists are on (game goes from really great to 'ok-ish' when assists are on) is cause it basically takes the challenge/fun out of the game... cause when playing with assists on it basically makes it so even the less skilled people can stay in it with the more skilled people which to me is just BS...

cause even besides the suggested line which i would not mind if other people used.... but with the assists on, you can slam the gas pedal and brake FULL every time and not worry about spinning out on a higher powered cars like a 'Ford GT40' or 'Shelby Cobra' for example... cause you slam on brakes or slam on gas pedal with those cars and it's instant spin out pretty much. lol

which is why i like the assist off cause when you drive good with those cars then you EARN the win's etc... just feels alot better.

although i can see your point for the 'more casual' gamer playing with em on to help prevent them taking out the people who prefer using no assists.

i dont play on xbox live myself but if i did i most likely would FORCE assists off if i was hosting a server this way those pricks who think they own the place cant just come in there and compete with you when there less skilled.

p.s. i have the official ms wheel for Forza 2 but honestly i have more fun with the controller and im FAR better at the game using the controller vs the official ms wheel.... the wheel is just to hard to use cause with the wheel without realistic G-Forces etc (basically close to a real car) it's to hard to get good with it... cause with a controller i can 'feel' the brakes and gas pedal MUCH better with my fingers vs the gas pedal with the wheel..... bottom line the wheel aint nearly as fun as i thought it would be.

Grand Master

HawkMan

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Actually, GT is currently rapidly losing that status, it's only in japan and due to the ridiculous GTR thing they are even grasping at still being that.

the PC GTR game i actually taking over that status in the more racing/sim centric circles, depsite being a PC game.

Honestly at this point in time, the market is too divided between the consoles for any of them to really keep or get the title as "THE" GT game, i a cross platform GT racer with Forza1 lvel simulation where to be released. Heck for MS it could possibly have been enough if they releaed Forza 2 on PC.

But you see less and less people talking about GT on the PS when the question is a Touring racer game. Now it's more "wel it's thiis one and this one and then this one, whatplatform do you want it on `? graphics or simlation most improtant?", While before Forza1, the answer was allways "GT on the playstation".

I don't really care though, as it is, untill GT5 is released. When t comes to consoles, wether you want a HArdcore sim racer, or a casual sim racer, the answer is on the 360. when GT5 finally is released, the answer is "PGR4 or Forza 2 if you have a 360, GT5 if you have a PS3, GTR on PC."

Unfortunately the PS3 is late with a current generation Touring car racer. for those that want somethign more than TDU.

cause even besides the suggested line which i would not mind if other people used.... but it's cause with assists on.... you can slam the gas pedal and brake FULL everytime and not worry about spinning out on a higher powered car like a 'Ford GT40' or 'Shelby Cobra' for example... cause you slam on brakes or slam on gas pedal with those cars and it's instant spin out pretty much. lol

You haven't actually tried this have you ? cause you're MASSIVELY overestimating the power of the TCS and ABS systems :p

And personally I find it more itneresting if the field and competition is higher, who cares if the other guys have more aids on than me, it's more itneresting with a tigher field and ocmpetition. and besides, those that can drive without TCS and ABS will outdrive anyone with those aids anyway, better brake control better control in the corners, at least on the rear wheel or 4WD cars, if you can stay on the razors edge

Grand Master

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Actually, GT is currently rapidly losing that status, it's only in japan and due to the ridiculous GTR thing they are even grasping at still being that.

Source? Stats say otherwise.

If you look at the sales above GT is far more popular in the West.

Europe and USA make up the largest share of sales, not Japan.

GT5P sold most in Europe, then USA, then Japan.

I suspect Europe will eclipse USA on GT5, especially due to the Top Gear integration (TV episodes) and the Top Gear test track being in GT5. Driving around the Test Track is many a Top Gear fans dream, mine included, because I'll never get to do it for real :p

Grand Master

HawkMan

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myeah, but I think raign games as a whole do a lot better in europe, but urope is also not as super loyal.

whereas the japs go to any lengths, especially with the PS also being a japanese thing.

like wth the GT game gauges on the GTR.. that's the most pointless thing ever, why would you put gauges designed to work on a TV screen on an Actual Car where there are far better options. still it looked sortof cool even if they're utterly useless.

Now we just have to wait for the next supercar that'l have the Forza 2 style information displays all all around the windscreen, I'll espeialluy low the wheel tration display with bounzing wheels right in the middle of the windscreen :p Head up display to a whole new level :D

Grand Master

DrunknMunky Veteran

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not to start anything but...

i used to be a huge fan of the Gran Turismo series until Forza series on XBox/XBox360 came along... and now i just consider the overall gameplay in the GT series obsolete (even say GT4 (on PS2) vs Forza (on XBox))... cause the core gameplay just feels alot better in Forza series plus engine sounds are generally better in Forza to (although neither game is perfect in the sound dept).

p.s. i play Forza/Forza 2 with all assists off.... MUCH more fun/challenging that way.

cause basically Forza 2 is pretty much THE reason i have a XBox360 right now.

You're not alone (Y)

Every hardcore sim racer I know plays Forza and absolutely hates GT (me included).

@AB, Forza and PGR are easily as big as GT in todays market seeing as they are more prominent than it has been in a long time. Not to mention they are the direct competition with GT. They have far more status than you give them credit too. Also PGR isn't as young as you make it sound. It hasn't been around for as long as GT but it's not far off. A little history lesson in need I think!

Edited by DrunknMunky
Grand Master

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myeah, but I think raign games as a whole do a lot better in europe, but urope is also not as super loyal.

whereas the japs go to any lengths, especially with the PS also being a japanese thing.

like wth the GT game gauges on the GTR.. that's the most pointless thing ever, why would you put gauges designed to work on a TV screen on an Actual Car where there are far better options. still it looked sortof cool even if they're utterly useless.

Now we just have to wait for the next supercar that'l have the Forza 2 style information displays all all around the windscreen, I'll espeialluy low the wheel tration display with bounzing wheels right in the middle of the windscreen :p Head up display to a whole new level :D

HawkMan what?

Europe is what is usually called "Sonyland", but stereotype names aside, LOOK at the sales figures.

Arguing against them is like talking to a brick wall.

They are factual.

GT has sold better in the west, USA/Europe EVERY SINGLE GAME.

So what on earth are you actually going on about Japan for?

Grand Master

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You're not alone (Y)

Every hardcore sim racer I know plays Forza and absolutely hates GT (me included).

Apart from me ;)

I don't hate either, I like them both. But that seems to be almost non-moral in this topic where the release date of GT5 has turned into people telling us how much they like Forza better :/

No idea why, but you guys must just have had to to get your love off your chests :p

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