How would you make Windows 7 better?

[Calum Veteran]

If the items were locked to the center of the taskbar, then in terms of appearance if really would be something like a dock. :laugh: .

Lol well it actually annoys me when people compare the new taskbar to Mac OS X's dock and other docks :( It works nothing like the dock and the only reason why it looks remotely similar is because the application icons are a little larger. In my opinion that is how application icons should look whether they are in Windows Explorer, the 'start' menu or the taskbar, they should be larger as they look better that way :) Also, there is no need to for text in the taskbar, until you hover over a thumbnailed window. The new Windows 7 taskbar is brilliant and it is nothing like the dock, so I hope people stop saying that :D I say, centre all the way! :p

[Brandon Live Veteran]

If the items were locked to the center of the taskbar, then in terms of appearance if really would be something like a dock. :laugh: .

And it would suffer the same shortcomings of a center-aligned icon layout. Like obviating the muscle-memory advantage the taskbar has, since things would move around as you opened new applications. That's one of many things that make the dock suck in my opinion...

[Calum Veteran]

And it would suffer the same shortcomings of a center-aligned icon layout. Like obviating the muscle-memory advantage the taskbar has, since things would move around as you opened new applications. That's one of many things that make the dock suck in my opinion...

I sort of understand what you mean by muscle-memory, but am confused as to what moves around (in relation to the icons and the taskbar) as you open new applications?

[andy2004]

Make Windows 7 better ? In terms of an OS Windows 7 is shaping up nicely but I still feel Microsoft isnt doing enough for security. Whilst its improved alot since xpsp2 onwards Microsoft need to stay a step ahead and it just doesnt feel like that is happening. Also (this is windows and all other microsoft products) there needs to be a phasing out of 32bit and a shift towards 64bit pure apps.

Edited December 14, 2008 by andy2004

[Denholm]

Make Windows 7 better ? In terms of an OS Windows 7 is shaping up nicely but I still feel Microsoft isnt doing enough for security. Whilst its improved alot since xpsp2 onwards Microsoft need to stay a step ahead and it just doesnt feel like that is happening.

Then again Microsoft is releasing that Microsoft Codename 'Morro' AntiMalware/Virus product, which will be free.

I hope it's going to be at least as good as Avast or AVG, both free for home users, otherwise Morro will be fail.

[Simon Veteran]

And it would suffer the same shortcomings of a center-aligned icon layout. Like obviating the muscle-memory advantage the taskbar has, since things would move around as you opened new applications. That's one of many things that make the dock suck in my opinion...

The Windows 7 taskbar does that anyway when it shows text next to the icon for open apps. Centering everything would just look better.

On your dock point, it's actually better than the 7 bar simply because no text appears next to it; if you have all the apps you use on a daily basis in the dock, muscle memory works all the time.

[andy2004]

Out of interest why is it when you have different apps open and hover your mouse over the taskbar (build 6801 with blue badge enabled) each app has its own different taskbar colour ?

[Denholm]

The Windows 7 taskbar does that anyway when it shows text next to the icon for open apps. Centering everything would just look better.

On your dock point, it's actually better than the 7 bar simply because no text appears next to it; if you have all the apps you use on a daily basis in the dock, muscle memory works all the time.

+1

Centering Apps / icons on the taskbar would make so much sense. Why can't Microsoft add that or 'right justified' Apps / icons as a choice? Can't imagine it would be that difficult. Right?

Out of interest why is it when you have different apps open and hover your mouse over the taskbar (build 6801 with blue badge enabled) each app has its own different taskbar colour ?

It's just the same as what Microsoft did with IE8 and originally I think it came from Microsoft Excel where Tab Coloring is optional.

I have no idea why it's a good idea or if these colors are randomly assigned. But this should either be an option (set custom color for an app, similar to what Excel does) or scrap the idea altogether.

[Calum Veteran]

Out of interest why is it when you have different apps open and hover your mouse over the taskbar (build 6801 with blue badge enabled) each app has its own different taskbar colour ?

It's just the same as what Microsoft did with IE8 and originally I think it came from Microsoft Excel where Tab Coloring is optional.

I have no idea why it's a good idea or if these colors are randomly assigned. But this should either be an option (set custom color for an app, similar to what Excel does) or scrap the idea altogether.

What it does is take the most prominent RGB value of the application's icon and use that as the colour for the background of the hover :) It's very clever and it is one of the features I like most about the new taskbar, along with the progress of file transfers/downloads being able to be displayed within the icon in the taskbar and the icon able to change automatically to different thingd (e.g. when you get a new instant message in Windows Live Messenger - not that is will do that with Windows Live Messenger, but it can).

There is so much more to the new taskbar which a lot of people do not know about. The main thing I love has to be the fact that the 'Quick Launch' is now integrated within the task pane though and 'Quick Launch' icons turn into running instances - genius :)

[JOHW]

+1

Centering Apps / icons on the taskbar would make so much sense. Why can't Microsoft add that or 'right justified' Apps / icons as a choice? Can't imagine it would be that difficult. Right?

It's just the same as what Microsoft did with IE8 and originally I think it came from Microsoft Excel where Tab Coloring is optional.

I have no idea why it's a good idea or if these colors are randomly assigned. But this should either be an option (set custom color for an app, similar to what Excel does) or scrap the idea altogether.

That color is based on the dominant color of the application icon in question...

It's for one to easily choose an app, since most users identify their applications by the icon, and as a result color too..

eg. IE: blue

Besides, it looks pretty

[Denis W. Veteran]

The Windows 7 taskbar does that anyway when it shows text next to the icon for open apps. Centering everything would just look better.

It does, but not by default. If you saw that in screenshots, that's strictly a user-changeable setting. By default, no text appears at all, just a highlighted rectangle.

On your dock point, it's actually better than the 7 bar simply because no text appears next to it; if you have all the apps you use on a daily basis in the dock, muscle memory works all the time.

Read above.

If kept at the default settings, Windows 7's taskbar is best for muscle memory. New applications will always open to the right of all pinned icons.

[Brandon Live Veteran]

I sort of understand what you mean by muscle-memory, but am confused as to what moves around (in relation to the icons and the taskbar) as you open new applications?

If you center everything, and you start an application that isn't pinned on the taskbar, everything would shift around to make room for the new icon. That's what happens on the dock.

[Calum Veteran]

If you center everything, and you start an application that isn't pinned on the taskbar, everything would shift around to make room for the new icon. That's what happens on the dock.

Ahhh of course! I was being silly and was only thinking of pinned applications! I completely forgot about the ones which weren't pinned.

Thank you for clearing that up for me :)

[Brandon Live Veteran]

The Windows 7 taskbar does that anyway when it shows text next to the icon for open apps. Centering everything would just look better.

Right but that's a non-standard configuration.

On your dock point, it's actually better than the 7 bar simply because no text appears next to it; if you have all the apps you use on a daily basis in the dock, muscle memory works all the time.

Huh? No text appears next to icons on the Win7 taskbar... unless you specifically turn it on. The taskbar is much better because it's about windows as it always has been. The dock is an application launcher, with some goofy horribly inconsistent window management tacked on top.

I find the dock to be pretty terrible. When I click on an icon, half the time it adds a new entry to the dock. Other times it doesn't. You have no idea what it's going to do. Some apps add an entry for every main window, which shifts things around and makes it hard to find what I'm looking for. Other apps don't do that and then you have no way at all to switch to one of its windows using the dock. You have to switch to it and then use the per-app expose or just move stuff out of the way to find it.

[andy2004]

The one thing also i miss is from xp when you could expand all programs into a scrollable column. Now I dont mind vistas start menu but wish it was slightly wider in all programs as some items like for ex in Microsoft Visual Studio 2008 some item names get cut off. Can we not have a slightly wider all programs column or have a facility to pop it out and expand the width ?

[Simon Veteran]

Ahh, I thought that it was a default setting to have text next to the window. My bad, guess it is better in that case. I still think it would look better in the middle though, especially since the apps you use on a daily basis should be pinned, so very little would be shifted.

As for your problems with the OS X dock, I have a feeling you haven't used OS X for more than 10 minutes. Say what you will, but you're simply wrong. Only poorly coded applications, which you don't need to use as there's almost always a well coded app, will ever open more than one icon. It's not part of how the windows on OS X work. And I wouldn't call the way windows work a hack. It's exactly the same as in Windows 7. Exactly the same. The only difference is that Windows 7 expands on the idea by offering thumbnails you can click to open a specific window. On OS X, you have to click the application icon and cmd + ` through the windows. The thumbnails are what I would like to see in OS X. But other than that, it's simply the same thing, and it's a good solution.

[Kyang]

Ahh, I thought that it was a default setting to have text next to the window. My bad, guess it is better in that case. I still think it would look better in the middle though, especially since the apps you use on a daily basis should be pinned, so very little would be shifted.

As for your problems with the OS X dock, I have a feeling you haven't used OS X for more than 10 minutes. Say what you will, but you're simply wrong. Only poorly coded applications, which you don't need to use as there's almost always a well coded app, will ever open more than one icon. It's not part of how the windows on OS X work. And I wouldn't call the way windows work a hack. It's exactly the same as in Windows 7. Exactly the same. The only difference is that Windows 7 expands on the idea by offering thumbnails you can click to open a specific window. On OS X, you have to click the application icon and cmd + ` through the windows. The thumbnails are what I would like to see in OS X. But other than that, it's simply the same thing, and it's a good solution.

I haven't had the privilege of using the new taskbar, so there's one thing I'd like to ask. How is minimizing handled?

When I click on an icon in the taskbar does the entire group minimize? Or, something? :huh: .

[JOHW]

There isn't really a way to minimize an app easily using the new taskbar. You could always hover over the button, then the thumbnail and then right click>Minimize

Of course that is worse than what we have currently..and you might just use the minimize button at the top right corner..

But why would you need to minimize an application? To go to the desktop? There's the show desktop

Open a new program? Just open, you don't have to minimize a window to open a new program.

Switching to another program, just click on the other apps' button on the taskbar.

IMO, minimize is something that can be done without nowadays..

I haven't thought deeply into user scenarios yet that renders minimizing an app important.

Anyway, if you choose to use any of the other options (no grouping for instance), just click on the app 'button' would minimize it (like previously?)

[Calum Veteran]

There isn't really a way to minimize an app easily using the new taskbar. You could always hover over the button, then the thumbnail and then right click>Minimize

Of course that is worse than what we have currently..and you might just use the minimize button at the top right corner..

But why would you need to minimize an application? To go to the desktop? There's the show desktop

Open a new program? Just open, you don't have to minimize a window to open a new program.

Switching to another program, just click on the other apps' button on the taskbar.

IMO, minimize is something that can be done without nowadays..

I haven't thought deeply into user scenarios yet that renders minimizing an app important.

Anyway, if you choose to use any of the other options (no grouping for instance), just click on the app 'button' would minimize it (like previously?)

I use 'Minimise' a lot since Windows Vista was released and the only reason for this is so the glass behind the focused window becomes clearer and I can see what is behind it, without it looking cluttered. If there was something which sorted out this problem, then yes, I would agree that minimising can be done without :)

Here's my solution:

When you select a window from the taskbar, or start up a new instance of an application, all other windows would automatically minimise to the taskbar.

If you wanted a certain application to not minimise automatically (for example there is a certain application you use regularly which you like to have showing, along with your focussed window) then there could be a 'Pin' button where the current 'Minimise' button is which you could easily press whenever needed (or set to always pin that certain application). These pinned applications would not minimise when you select a new window from the taskbar or a new instance of an application. Windows applied to the left and right of the screen, using 'Aero Snap', and maybe maximised applications (?), would be exempt from this 'automatic minimise' behaviour.

Is this not a good idea?

I think it makes sense to do this because then you can see what is behind the glass - it would be much clearer without it looking 'cluttered' and you do not have to minimise every single instance of an application yourself - making Windows much more user friendly, efficient and intuitive :)

I personally think that is a very good idea, I would like everyone else's thoughts on this :) Particularly Brandon's.

[JOHW]

Even after using Vista for 2.5 years, I don't really understand how u see through the glass to the underlying window..The glass is just around the top and borders of a window?

You can't exactly make the whole window glasslike like how it is done in Win 7 with the hovering over thumbnails..so I'm pretty confused by what you mean..

I feel that Win 7's way of focusing the window, making all other windows 'pure' glass when hovering over a thumbnail probably does whatever you might be trying to achieve? (Though those thumbnails should appear faster than what we have now..)

Oh..and Alt-Tab seems faster than minimizing an app..what say you?

[Brandon Live Veteran]

Ahh, I thought that it was a default setting to have text next to the window. My bad, guess it is better in that case. I still think it would look better in the middle though, especially since the apps you use on a daily basis should be pinned, so very little would be shifted.

As for your problems with the OS X dock, I have a feeling you haven't used OS X for more than 10 minutes. Say what you will, but you're simply wrong. Only poorly coded applications, which you don't need to use as there's almost always a well coded app, will ever open more than one icon. It's not part of how the windows on OS X work. And I wouldn't call the way windows work a hack. It's exactly the same as in Windows 7. Exactly the same. The only difference is that Windows 7 expands on the idea by offering thumbnails you can click to open a specific window. On OS X, you have to click the application icon and cmd + ` through the windows. The thumbnails are what I would like to see in OS X. But other than that, it's simply the same thing, and it's a good solution.

My last laptop was a Macbook, I've had plenty of experience with Macs ;)

The dock and the taskbar are nothing alike. Windows 7's grouping doesn't "expand on the dock" in any way. It expands on Vista and XP's grouping functionality. The dock has no window grouping functionality, which is because the dock isn't even about managing windows. It's not just that there aren't thumbnails, there's no list at all. You just switch to the app and then cmd + ' through them, or use expose.

The taskbar is different. It isn't about switching applications, it's about managing windows, and always has been.

Here's my solution:

When you select a window from the taskbar, or start up a new instance of an application, all other windows would automatically minimise to the taskbar.

If you wanted a certain application to not minimise automatically (for example there is a certain application you use regularly which you like to have showing, along with your focussed window) then there could be a 'Pin' button where the current 'Minimise' button is which you could easily press whenever needed (or set to always pin that certain application). These pinned applications would not minimise when you select a new window from the taskbar or a new instance of an application. Windows applied to the left and right of the screen, using 'Aero Snap', and maybe maximised applications (?), would be exempt from this 'automatic minimise' behaviour.

Is this not a good idea?

I think it makes sense to do this because then you can see what is behind the glass - it would be much clearer without it looking 'cluttered' and you do not have to minimise every single instance of an application yourself - making Windows much more user friendly, efficient and intuitive :)

I personally think that is a very good idea, I would like everyone else's thoughts on this :) Particularly Brandon's.

Haha, sorry I would hate that :p

[Calum Veteran]

Even after using Vista for 2.5 years, I don't really understand how u see through the glass to the underlying window..The glass is just around the top and borders of a window?

You can't exactly make the whole window glasslike like how it is done in Win 7 with the hovering over thumbnails..so I'm pretty confused by what you mean..

I feel that Win 7's way of focusing the window, making all other windows 'pure' glass when hovering over a thumbnail probably does whatever you might be trying to achieve? (Though those thumbnails should appear faster than what we have now..)

Oh..and Alt-Tab seems faster than minimizing an app..what say you?

I don't know whether I explained myself properly or not? But you completely misunderstood what I was trying to say :D :)

What I mean is if you have 2 or 3 windows open and they are different sizes, overlapping each other and at different positions on the screen, sometimes you can see some of the other application through the glass titlebar of the focussed application. This makes it look and feel more cluttered and also means you cannot see through the glass all the way to your desktop background. Whilst doing this, the glass also seems to become less clear.

[Kyang]

There isn't really a way to minimize an app easily using the new taskbar. You could always hover over the button, then the thumbnail and then right click>Minimize

Of course that is worse than what we have currently..and you might just use the minimize button at the top right corner..

But why would you need to minimize an application? To go to the desktop? There's the show desktop

Open a new program? Just open, you don't have to minimize a window to open a new program.

Switching to another program, just click on the other apps' button on the taskbar.

IMO, minimize is something that can be done without nowadays..

I haven't thought deeply into user scenarios yet that renders minimizing an app important.

Anyway, if you choose to use any of the other options (no grouping for instance), just click on the app 'button' would minimize it (like previously?)

For me, minimizing a window is simply about getting it the heck out of the way, without having to close anything.

In Windows 7, I've read that the way to quickly minimize a window is to press Win+Down, but moving my hand from my mouse to the down button and back isn't really easy. If there isn't a simple way, no matter, I'll adapt.

[Calum Veteran]

Haha, sorry I would hate that :p

Thank you for your input :D

Any reason? For some reason I think it sounds like it would be more efficient :/

For me, minimizing a window is simply about getting it the heck out of the way, without having to close anything.

In Windows 7, I've read that the way to quickly minimize a window is to press Win+Down, but moving my hand from my mouse to the down button and back isn't really easy. If there isn't a simple way, no matter, I'll adapt.

Can't you just click the 'minimise' button in the titlebar? If you are on about a window which isn't focussed then you may benefit from my suggestion of window management, if it was ever implemented :)

[Kyang]

Can't you just click the 'minimise' button in the titlebar? If you are on about a window which isn't focussed then you may benefit from my suggestion of window management, if it was ever implemented :) .

Well, the minimize button on the top of a window isn't always going to be in the same spot, since the windows aren't always maximized. When there's a group of windows open and I only want to minimize a few of them, it was always easy to just click on their respective buttons on the taskbar. Again, I was only wondering about it. Whatever the new system is, I'll get used to it. I'm probably in some extreme minority anyway. :laugh: .