Did Heavy Rain impress you before? What about now?

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Stop trying to go all high and mighty, yet again. Of course i'm wrong, i'm dissing a PS3 game....

Get a grip. The close ups of the woman etc look good as in the video, but all the other characters look like dodgy play dough people. The art direction is poor, they've gone the whole 'throw in some dark colours to hide the poor textures and pull attention to one part of the screen' angle. If you want an example of a game I think looks good, or better than those screens/vid, GOW2.

What I meant by another lair, a game with OK graphics, looks good in principle and was hyped to be the 'mega console seller', but plays like a box of crap with pi** poor gameplay and even worse controls.

The other characters are dead. How many times do I need to say that? Of course they look different, they've been stuffed like an animal is stuffed. Skin is going to be pale and lifeless as the blood is drained from their bodies.

Hide what poor textures?

There isn't one jaggy on sight.

And again absolutely no need to bring up Lair in here, you're just doing it to trash talk.

Glad you think GOW2 looks good, it does, and so does this. May I remind you though you said this game looked "awful".

I have the feeling the efforts they're putting into some of the models will be undone by the complete lack of AA

Find me jaggies in the screenshots or the gameplay video. It definitely has AA on the go.

What's with being so pessimistic? You even said yourself you liked Fahrenheit.

Edited December 2, 2008 by Audioboxer

[Si_]

Because screens are never what you see on screen when you play it.... again look at Mirrors Edge, the ps3 screens looked fine but the demo looked like it had been hacked away with a saw. I'm not trying to be overtly pessimistic, i'm just not buying into the hype. I really cant see the game looking as smooth as those screens when it actually comes out, the PS3 just can't do AA. Looking at it, as i've said, they're pulling the whole "chuck in dark colours....." thing which is only ever done to hide what else is on screen.

This is getting a bit tiring having to spell out EVERY comment -- it feels like I should be posting in Ladybird book style, but I said I HOPE this isn't going to be another Lair, that looks ok and is hyped up, but plays extremely badly. if they put all the effort into the graphics, the gameplay could suffer. Valid comparison.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Because screens are never what you see on screen when you play it.... again look at Mirrors Edge, the ps3 screens looked fine but the demo looked like it had been hacked away with a saw. I'm not trying to be overtly pessimistic, i'm just not buying into the hype. I really cant see the game looking as smooth as those screens when it actually comes out, the PS3 just can't do AA. Looking at it, as i've said, they're pulling the whole "chuck in dark colours....." thing which is only ever done to hide what else is on screen.

Si, WATCH THE 20 MINUTE PRESENTATION.

Then you will see what you see is the screens is what you play. Nothing released for Heavy Rain has been CG, it's all real time, Cage has said that himself.

No jaggies, the PS3 can obviously do AA, where are you pulling that from?

Mirrors Edge does not = Heavy Rain.

This is getting a bit tiring having to spell out EVERY comment -- it feels like I should be posting in Ladybird book style

Funny, I just had to spell out to you that watching the video, which I've said multiple times, shows you how smooth the game is. Yet you continue to tell us how the screenshots mean nothing and the game is going to be full of jaggies? :blink: What?

but I said I HOPE this isn't going to be another Lair, that looks ok and is hyped up, but plays extremely badly. if they put all the effort into the graphics, the gameplay could suffer. Valid comparison.

Fair enough, I expect to see you start comparing every single game ever shown in a preview to Lair, or else your comparison is not valid. As this game has nothing in common with Lair, isn't by the same developers, and Sony themselves have hardly even mentioned a word about Heavy Rain, therefore I don't see any hype for it yet. Unless you're talking about the gamers, but the gamers don't = Sony.

Edited December 2, 2008 by Audioboxer

[Si_]

I saw your precious video when it was first released, it's nothing new and doesn't really show anything substantial. You can't get a good idea from a video of a video on a backdrop in a confrence, it would be stupid to say you could.

All i'm saying is most PS3 games have had all these excellent previews (and alas, you've publicly drooled over :p) and when they come out they're still nothing like they're made out to be.

Just don't buy into the hype....

... As for the PS3/AA situation, just google it, that's for another thread. It's prohibitively expensive for the PS3 hardware to do it properly, it's just not designed for it.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

I saw your precious video when it was first released, it's nothing new and doesn't really show anything substantial. You can't get a good idea from a video of a video on a backdrop in a confrence, it would be stupid to say you could.

All i'm saying is most PS3 games have had all these excellent previews (and alas, you've publicly drooled over :p) and when they come out they're still nothing like they're made out to be.

Just don't buy into the hype....

... As for the PS3/AA situation, just google it, that's for another thread. It's prohibitively expensive for the PS3 hardware to do it properly, it's just not designed for it.

It shows every single one of the screenshots, bar the first one in motion. How is that not substantial to this argument when what we're doing is discussing the screenshots? :blink:

Yes it's being filmed at a conference, but you can blatantly see there is no terrible jaggies you speak of, and how impressive the lighting engine can be. As well as some of the graphics in general.

That's funny, the games I supposedly "drool" over are some of the most critically acclaimed this generation. Guess I just have good taste :happy:

I couldn't care less what the hardware was designed for, if the developers make a game that looks smooth, it is smooth. It's not me paying the development bill.

But saying the PS3 can't do AA, which is what you said earlier, is just pulling stuff out your ass.

the PS3 just can't do AA

Just don't buy into the hype....

Again what real Hype? Sony have hardly even publicly announced Heavy Rain, let alone said a word about it.

Unless I, Audioboxer = Heavy Rain hype. In which case, thanks :woot: Didn't know I was that important in the gaming world to you ;)

Edited December 2, 2008 by Audioboxer

[Matrix XII]

Wow, most people in this thread are pretty picky. I think the visuals look quite good.

We'd have to see how the engine plays, but I don't see what's wrong with any of those screens.

[Si_]

Urgh. Right, take Mirrors edge as a *technical* example. I know you said it's not the same for the purposes of avoiding the example, but just run with it.

It was developed on the PS3 as the base console. If there was one console they would have got the most out of, it would have been that. None of the screens/in game videos etc showed AA issues (as is the case here), but looked how it turned out. It can't be all the games fault, bad development etc, because look at the difference on the 360 and it wasn't even developed on the console. It's not just that game, it's most of them.

It's exactly the same situation here, it's being developed on the PS3 and we're seeing videos where it looks good, but time and time again we see it not come out the same. Is it that hard to believe *some* people won't fall head over heels until they see it? .... I'm not sure what exactly you're trying to prove here....

Edited December 2, 2008 by Si_

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Urgh. Right, take Mirrors edge as a *technical* example. I know you said it's not the same for the purposes of avoiding the example, but just run with it.

It was developed on the PS3 as the base console. If there was one console they would have got the most out of, it would have been that. None of the screens/in game videos etc showed AA issues (as is the case here), but looked how it turned out. It can't be all the games fault, bad development etc, because look at the difference on the 360 and it wasn't even developed on the console.

It's exactly the same situation here, it's being developed on the PS3 and we're seeing videos where it looks good, but time and time again we see it not come out the same. Is it that hard to believe *some* people won't fall head over heels until they see it? I'm not sure what exactly you're trying to prove here....

Why do you keep talking about Mirrors Edge?

It is not by the same developers, or running on the same engine. Nor is Heavy Rain even a multiplatform title.

Does the notion that OTHER developers can do AA somehow fly over your head? Is every PS3 developer doomed to create a game with as poor game play as Lair, and have the supposed terrible jaggies of Mirrors Edge? Seems that way in your opinion at times :laugh:

Mirrors Edge means jack squat to Heavy Rain.

So....

It's exactly the same situation here, it's being developed on the PS3 and we're seeing videos where it looks good, but time and time again we see it not come out the same.

No.

Edited December 2, 2008 by Audioboxer

[houlty]

i've read that anti-aliasing is notoriously difficult to achieve on the ps3, due to its architecture.

and like _Si said, he's only using Mirrors Edge as an example. there are many (if not most) other ps3 games that could fill the space in that example.

you can rabbit on all day about different developers, but the fact is anti-aliasing has been very poor so far on the ps3. saying that, it can only get better with future games, with Heavy Rain hopefully being one of them.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

i've read that anti-aliasing is notoriously difficult to achieve on the ps3, due to its architecture.

and like _Si said, he's only using Mirrors Edge as an example. there are many (if not most) other ps3 games that could fill the space in that example.

you can rabbit on all day about different developers, but the fact is anti-aliasing has been very poor so far on the ps3. saying that, it can only get better with future games, with Heavy Rain hopefully being one of them.

Which means what to this topic about Heavy Rain though houlty?

If I started a topic saying lets discuss the AA on the PS3, fine.

Or if any of these screens showed jaggies, fine.

But they don't, so why keep rabbiting on about the lack of AA in Mirrors Edge instead of talking about Heavy Rain?

[Si_]

Despite it being across the board ... Whatever. My point was, no game previews show up AA issues etc, you find them out when it's released, so you can't expect to see the playable quality now (THAT is what it has to do with Heavy Rain, or do you want some diagram, bright colours and maybe a song to go with that?...). We'll see in time. I'll look forward to the usual excuses :p

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Despite it being across the board ... Whatever. We'll see in time. I'll look forward for the usual lame-ass excuses :p

No excuses needed when I can see right now how the Heavy Rain engine looks, and it's only going to get better by the time it's ready for release.

Boy if you think my heads in the sand, then....

That's for you come release :happy: Heck, even right now claiming it has no AA when it so obviously does.

My point was, no game previews show up AA issues etc, you find them out when it's released

lolwhat?

Yeah sure, none of the previews builds played, nor any of the realtime demos can show up bad graphics :laugh:

Must be the magic fairy dust they sprinkle over early builds!

[McSmiggins]

Don't care what people are saying about the graphics, looks fine to me, in the days when everyone moans about Crysis lacking depth/being boring, you're all still arguing about graphics?

But to be honest, I was sold straight away, love Indigo Prophecy/Fahrenheit, can't wait for this.

[Si_]

Yeah sure, none of the previews builds played, nor any of the realtime demos can show up bad graphics :laugh:

Must be the magic fairy dust they sprinkle over early builds!

Ok, Ladybird time (yet again)....., I'll expand that out for you.

None of the overly hyped PS3 preview vids/screens etc for most of the big games showed up the pi*s poor AA etc, and was only complained about after release, as already exampled to DEATH (well done...)

While overly poor graphics stick out like a sore thumb, poor textures, AA or whatever else like that usually gets hidden until a playable demo comes out at the earliest.

Again, you could say "I can see how the engine looks now, therefore I R RIGHT" about most ps3 games before release, but look at the difference when you actually play it.

[HawkMan]

Well as entertaining as you guys are.

My point was that, for something to be impressive, it has to be better, by a good margin that what is already out there.

This just isn't, It looks good, very good, but it's not Impressive, and the title makes it seem like we should be impressed before and super impressed now.. why , they're showing the exact same not very impressive stuff as they showed earlier, why should I be more impressed than I wasn't before.

As I said, it looks very good, but not impressive compared to what is already out there.

[houlty]

Which means what to this topic about Heavy Rain though houlty?

well, directly, nothing. but the point i could easily see _Si making was to not trust early previews entirely. a sentiment i'd agree with.

back on topic though, i can't wait for this game and hope it turns out to be as impressive as it appears it will be.

[acies]

It still doesn't impress much, the water just don't look good enough.

and for a game where rain is so prevasive, their rain sure isn't very good.

Maybe it's because I dabble in 3D graphics and rendering, but... rain without reflections on wet roads... just don't work, heck they don't even reflect the car/motorbike lights. and that's like THE element to rain and wet roads. if you have that then everythign else an pretty much look like crap and it'll still look good.

Well obviously it's not going to be much if your comparing this to CGI. Get a proper frame of reference and you might be a little more impressed. I mean, the screenshots don't really "stun" me, but it's certainly impressive when in motion.

God some of those screens look awful.... it's like they put all the effort into the main character(s), the rest look like badly modeled play dough. Average, hopefully the gameplay/story will be good and not another Lair...

I'll admit they aren't "jaw dropping". Most screen shots of games aren't very impressive, but if you have watched the video and still call those graphics awful... well you must not play alot of videos games.

[Si_]

well, directly, nothing. but the point i could easily see _Si making was to not trust early previews entirely. a sentiment i'd agree with.

back on topic though, i can't wait for this game and hope it turns out to be as impressive as it appears it will be.

Therein lies the problem :p

I do hope it is as good as the video shows, it's a step forward for the whole industry, but i'm just not holding my breath.

I'll admit they aren't "jaw dropping". Most screen shots of games aren't very impressive, but if you have watched the video and still call those graphics awful... well you must not play alot of videos games.

As I said, I was talking about the screens. The vid looks OK, but you can't really gauge much from a video -of-a video. A lot of poor games would look good from that angle.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

well, directly, nothing. but the point i could easily see _Si making was to not trust early previews entirely. a sentiment i'd agree with.

If you read our conversation Si did not word his opinion like that at all.

He first of all said the PS3 can't do AA at all, which isn't true. I don't care how hard it is or isn't im not arguing that, I'm arguing it's possible, when Si says its not. The guys over at Guerilla must be sprinkling the magic fairy dust as well.

Next said the Heavy Rain screenshots wouldn't represent the game. Then when told to watch the video, said it wasn't relevant. The screenshots are FROM the video of game play, the video couldn't be any more relevant.

Then topped it off by saying no games graphics can be judged at all until the game is finished because AA issues don't seem to exist in realtime demos, or preview builds. And now it seems to be if you show a game at a certain angle, AA issues disappear.

But alas, I've given up caring, I only go by what I can see, and what I can see right now definitely has no issues with AA. Until AA issues appear, I'll argue their is none, because I have substantial evidence. Si's evidence is because Mirrors Edge can't do AA...

Why people are trying to make AA issues when there is none, or deciding it's appropriate to compare the game to other games on no real basis, seems to lie with whatever their prerogative is.

[HawkMan]

Well obviously it's not going to be much if your comparing this to CGI. Get a proper frame of reference and you might be a little more impressed. I mean, the screenshots don't really "stun" me, but it's certainly impressive when in motion.

I'll admit they aren't "jaw dropping". Most screen shots of games aren't very impressive, but if you have watched the video and still call those graphics awful... well you must not play alot of videos games.

I ddn't compare it to CGI, I just said it might make it easier for me to see the flaws.

but light reflections and specular highlights/reflections isn't something new that's never been done in games, before, in fact, in this generation of games(post 360, wii excluded) I an't really think of a single game in dark and wet enviroments where car and bike lights don't reflect off the road surface.

like this:

yeah, ok it doesn't have to be that good with the blurry reflections and all that, that'd be unfair since that's from a racing game where wet road surface rendering is a key element. but they shoudl have some from of simple relfections or even just specular.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Oh for what it's worth, here is a direct feed of the 2006 technical demo.

In real time, spot those mass amounts of jaggies.

http://www.gamershell.com/tv/1856.html

Ain't as impressive visually back then (still looks good), but it's the same engine used now, just further developed.

-snipped-

HawkMan you do realize the amount of time you probably spend on a bike/vehicle in this game will be non-existent?

[Si_]

Funny how houlty picked up what I mean straight away and yet you *still* need it explained with crayons and A1 paper, or are just trying to be argumentative for no real benifet....

Again for the tenth post, I used Mirrors edge as an EXAMPLE, as I said many of the PS3s games were the same. I guess english is a second language or something... I also said the screens looked poor, and you couldn't say the game looked exceptional from that video with it, not that one was better than the other.

Anyway, i'm done going back over every sentence expanding it into Spot the Dog for your benifet, my point has obviously been clear enough for anyone else who read it...

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Funny how houlty picked up what I mean straight away and yet you *still* need it explained with crayons and A1 paper, or are just trying to be argumentative for no real benifet....

Again for the tenth post, I used Mirrors edge as an EXAMPLE, as I said many of the PS3s games were the same. I guess english is a second language or something... I also said the screens looked poor, and you couldn't say the game looked exceptional from that video with it.

Anyway, i'm done going back over every sentence expanding it into Spot the Dog for your benifet, my point has obviously been clear enough for anyone else who read it...

Good thing Heavy Rain doesn't seem to be one of them :happy:

That should make you happy as well. You shouldn't need to worry about the AA getting in the way of your enjoyment of this game!

[Sethos]

Oh for what it's worth, here is a direct feed of the 2006 technical demo.

In real time, spot those jaggies.

http://www.gamershell.com/tv/1856.html

Ain't as impressive visually back then (still looks good), but it's the same engine used now, just further developed.

I see plenty of jaggies but then again, trailers / videos are horrible to judge a thing like AA.

You just can't post a compressed or streamed video of a game and then expect to see all the finer details! The way some software like Flash playbacks a compressed video 'eliminates' jaggies or rather replaces the visible edges with the fine pixelation.

Just wait until the game is released and proper, unedited, uncompressed screenshots are released or see it for yourself on a TV but judging AA from semi low-res videos and screenshots is just daft - So many games through times look so butter smooth on pre-release media but had very noticeable jaggies when released.

Wait until it's released ...

[Si_]

Good thing Heavy Rain doesn't seem to be one of them :happy:

That should make you happy as well. You shouldn't need to worry about the AA getting in the way of your enjoyment of this game!

The point is we don't know -- i hope it's not -- but you can't rely on early previews at all. And we're back to square one, again :rolleyes: