So much for no kernel change - "Windows 7 *is* Minwin

By Owen W
in The Fast Ring (Insider Previews)

 Share

Recommended Posts

Veteran

Owen W Veteran

Posted
  • Veteran
Posted

A lot of people assume that MinWin is a Microsoft effort to completely rewrite the Windows Kernel from scratch. That may be based on earlier (limited) explanations about what it does, or it may have a lot to do with people assuming, due to people's efforts with open source software, that rewriting the kernel will solve all of Windows problems. Well, Mark Russinovich, Microsoft Technical Fellow and guru of all things NT Kernel, attempts to set the record straight in a 45 minute video from Channel 9. Microsoft also explains that "it *is* indeed in Windows 7."

This excited me, and I wanted to ask you guys, what you thought?! Hurrah for parralell processing! :)

Neowin Article

Grand Master

chrisj1968

Posted
Posted

I heard about minwin back in it's conception. MS wanted to trim the fat off the kernel. at the time I read the article, it was a very small footprint. I'm glad to see MS has warmed up to a leaner OS

Veteran

Owen W Veteran

Posted
  • Author
  • Veteran
Posted
I heard about minwin back in it's conception. MS wanted to trim the fat off the kernel. at the time I read the article, it was a very small footprint. I'm glad to see MS has warmed up to a leaner OS

Agreed, it sounds like it was a bit of a jumbled mess of code that no-one realyl had been keeping an eye on. I'm glad that lower level operations have been seperated from the higher ones, as higher level programs getting access to lower level processes can really mash things up!

Grand Master

_neutrino Veteran

Posted
  • Veteran
Posted

in the original tech demo of minwin they were able to run the whole OS useing no more than 17mb of ram and 25 Mb of HDD space. however when the other parts of the OS running now windows 7 in its current form (albeit not finished yet) uses the same if not MORE system resources than windows Vista does.

Veteran

Owen W Veteran

Posted
  • Author
  • Veteran
Posted
in the original tech demo of minwin they were able to run the whole OS useing no more than 17mb of ram and 25 Mb of HDD space. however when the other parts of the OS running now windows 7 in its current form (albeit not finished yet) uses the same if not MORE system resources than windows Vista does.

Well no, that's a common misconception, Windows 7 appears to be using most RAM alot of the time as rather than wasting RAM by leaving it Idle, it sends it to where it's needed. The same goes for the CPU.

So rather than having ram that's doing nothing 50% of the time, it's busy most of the time.

If you're referring to the amount of threads, thats a good thing, as more threads are better for Parralell processing, which is also a new part of Windows 7

Also, if you want no GUI on your OS, then so be it. A GUI is going to use resources.

Grand Master

majortom1981

Posted
Posted

Minwin is NT . Nothing new all they are doing was stripping things out to see howsmall they could get everything. It was more of an exercise in how to make windows more efficient.

So technically vista has minwin also since its just the same stuff just with some things stripped out and made seperately.

Veteran

Owen W Veteran

Posted
  • Author
  • Veteran
Posted
Minwin is NT . Nothing new all they are doing was stripping things out to see howsmall they could get everything. It was more of an exercise in how to make windows more efficient.

So technically vista has minwin also since its just the same stuff just with some things stripped out and made seperately.

Well...no. As explained in the article things have been rearranged so higher process levels no longer directly interact with low level processes. This is a recipe for disaster (BSODs etc)..

So essentially Win7 has the same Kernel, but sorted properly into levels of processes.

Grand Master

HawkMan

Posted
Posted
Would be a good change for the operating system to get away from the aging NT... but don't fix something that isn't broken

Why?

NT 6 isn't the same as NT 3.5 , they share a few basic principles but other than that they're hardly comparable.

It's like saying Linux would do good to change to a new kernel since the Linux kernel is getting old... but then.. it's not linux anymore.

And the NT kernel is still one if not the best kernel out there with functions superior to the comptition. Untill we get a brand new oputer architecture, it doesn't make sense to change to a bran new groun up rewrote generation of kernels. heck een MacOS chose to stick to what was allready out there rather than do their own for OSX.

Veteran

Owen W Veteran

Posted
  • Author
  • Veteran
Posted
Why?

NT 6 isn't the same as NT 3.5 , they share a few basic principles but other than that they're hardly comparable.

It's like saying Linux would do good to change to a new kernel since the Linux kernel is getting old... but then.. it's not linux anymore.

And the NT kernel is still one if not the best kernel out there with functions superior to the comptition. Untill we get a brand new oputer architecture, it doesn't make sense to change to a bran new groun up rewrote generation of kernels. heck een MacOS chose to stick to what was allready out there rather than do their own for OSX.

Agreed - NT is quite the revolutionary kernel, and it evolves with every version change, essentially giving a "new" kernel. I'm happy with it already, and can't wait to see what Windows 7 brings to build on the fantastic job they did in Vista

Grand Master

majortom1981

Posted
Posted
Well...no. As explained in the article things have been rearranged so higher process levels no longer directly interact with low level processes. This is a recipe for disaster (BSODs etc)..

So essentially Win7 has the same Kernel, but sorted properly into levels of processes.

Exactly its really still the same. Its not radically changed . Just made so the lower level stuff doesnt need to call the higher level things.

Veteran

y_notm

Posted
Posted
Well...no. As explained in the article things have been rearranged so higher process levels no longer directly interact with low level processes. This is a recipe for disaster (BSODs etc)..

Not really. It's mainly to speed and ease development and testing of the OS. THey aren't changing things that make it inherently more stable.

Veteran

Owen W Veteran

Posted
  • Author
  • Veteran
Posted
Not really. It's mainly to speed and ease development and testing of the OS. THey aren't changing things that make it inherently more stable.

Theoratically it does - well according to the Windows Server example.

What I mean by this is the reason its not reccomended to install regular applications on servers is because they generally have default low level access, which can mash things up. Once a virus gets in there, it can do whatever the hell it likes with low level stuff.

Grand Master

AltecXP

Posted
Posted

Well its kernel 6.1 so yes, its not identical to Vista(6.0) but we already knew that for years now. Plus from what I hear most the changes are Optimizations then changes in how it functions.

Someone said an example of when ONLY planing a DVD on a laptop, Win7 gets almost another Hr out of the battery then Vista does with identical laptops.

Veteran

Owen W Veteran

Posted
  • Author
  • Veteran
Posted
Well its kernel 6.1 so yes, its not identical to Vista(6.0) but we already knew that for years now. Plus from what I hear most the changes are Optimizations then changes in how it functions.

Someone said an example of when ONLY planing a DVD on a laptop, Win7 gets almost another Hr out of the battery then Vista does with identical laptops.

It's pretty sweet eh. What really annoys me is people flaming MS because 7 is built on Vista, but in reality, XP was built on Windows 2000 as well. It's the same thing, yet people are going on about how it should never be done

This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share
Go to topic listing

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Posts

    • GeekBook X16 Pro Intel Core Ultra 9 thin and light laptop gets a 17% discount

      By Steven P. · Posted

      GeekBook X16 Pro Intel Core Ultra 9 thin and light laptop gets a 17% discount by Steven Parker GEEKOM is back with a 17% discount on its top-of-the-range X16 Pro laptop. You may remember that we reviewed the X14 Pro back in February, which marked GEEKOM's debut into the ultrathin laptop segment. You can view the full specs below. GEEKOM X16 Pro Model NX14CM Dimensions 322.58 × 213.36 × 5.8 mm (12.7"L x 8.4"W x 0.23"T) Weight 997 g / 2.2 lbs Material Unibody Magnesium Alloy CPU Intel Ultra 5 125H (14C/18T, 24MB L3, 2.3-5.1 GHz, TDP 20W) Intel Ultra 9 185H (16C/22T, 24MB L3, 2.3-4.5 GHz, TDP 35W) Graphics Intel Arc graphics 8 Xe-cores @ 2350MHz 1024 shading units/stream processors (128 CUs), 8 Raytracing Cores, 64 texture mapping units, and 32 ROPs NPU Intel AI Boost, 11 TOPS / Up to 33 TOPS (CPU+NPU+GPU) Memory 32GB Dual-channel LPDDR5x 7467 MT/s Micron SODIMM Storage 1 x M.2 2280 PCIe Gen 4x4, Wodposit 1TB, 2 TB Display 16.0" IPS LCD, 2560 × 1600 (16:10) 100% sRGB, 120Hz Refresh Rate Camera 2MP 1080P 1 × Light sensor in camera module 1 × LED indicator in the camera module Windows Hello Support: No Mic 2 x Digital Mics integrated in the camera module Speakers 2 x 3813 (4Ω×2W) built in body Audio Codec: ALC269QN-VC3-GR Certificate: DTS: X Ultra Operating System Windows 11 Pro 25H2 Bluetooth Bluetooth 5.4 Wireless LAN MediaTek MT7922 M.2 Wi-Fi 6E LAN card Left I/O ports 1 x HDMI 2.0 2 x USB4 (40 Gbps) Right I/O ports 1 x USB 3.2 Gen 1 Type-A (5 Gbps) 1 x 3.5 mm Audio jack 1 x Camera Privacy Shutter Keyboard 78Key 1.2±0.2mm / Height 3.5±0.2mm (with backlight) White LED light in Caps Lock and Fn key Language: Default US Touch Pad Dimension: 120 x 71mm Material: Mylar Position: Middle Interface: I2C, Dualpoint button Dock Input port: 1 x Type-C 2 x USB 3.0, 1 x RJ45 1 x PD 1 x HDMI (Bio) Security Fingerprint sensor (in the power button) SD Card slot No Kensington Lock No Battery 77Wh (Input 20V, 3.25A) Power 65W PD GaN Fast Charge, USB-C to USB-C Warranty 2 years (Early Bird 1+1 Years) Deal price $1119.67 The X16 Pro is powered by the Intel Ultra 9 185H, which was released in Q4 2023 and is a 14th Gen Meteor Lake CPU designed for laptop/mobile using the Intel 4 architecture based on a 7nm process. The Ultra 9 185H features 16 cores and 22 threads running at up to 5.1 GHz. It also includes a dedicated NPU utilizing Intel AI Boost at 11 TOPS. On the graphics front, the 185H includes the still fairly capable ARC Graphics (not to be confused with the newer ARC 140T) integrated GPU with a max GPU frequency of 2350 MHz across 8 Xe-cores. It has been said that the iGPU is equivalent to the NVIDIA GeForce 3050 and GTX 1650 in gaming and synthetic benchmarks. Other highlights include an AMOLED display, LPDDR5x memory at 7467 MT/s, WiFi 6E, Bluetooth 5.4, and a fingerprint sensor built into the power button. AI PC? Although the Intel Core Ultra 9 185H includes a dedicated NPU, it's only 11 TOPS; therefore, it does not qualify as a Copilot+ PC. However, it can reach up to 33 TOPS with a combination of NPU, CPU, and GPU. As I said, although we only reviewed the X14 Pro, the unboxing is the same for the X16 Pro, which I noted in my review. The packaging is quite a nice experience. The outer box houses the X16 Pro box with a small compartment that contains the 5-in-1 Dock ($40 value), which appears to be an "Early Bird" inclusion. Upon removing the box cover, the X16 Pro is revealed sitting in a cardboard compartment with two small booklets of documentation. To the left of the X16 Pro are two cardboard compartments containing the 65W charger and Type-C USB cable. What’s In The Box 1 x GEEKOM X16 Pro Ultra-thin Laptop 1 x Type-C to Type-C cable 1.8M 1 x 65W GaN PD Fast Charger 1 x Warranty Card 1 x Thank You Card 1 x User Guide All products sold by GEEKOM receive a 3-year free Warranty from the date you receive the product. If needed, you can RMA or return locally relative to your region (the U.S. has a U.S. warehouse, mainland E.U. has a German warehouse). GEEKOM X16 Pro at GEEKOM U.S. for $1,119.67 was $1,349 (17% off) Use coupon code NWGBX1617 when checking out. This flash deal expires on July 2. Huge Summer Sale As a reminder, yesterday GEEKOM kicked off their Huge Summer Sale, in which there are deep discounts on a range of other GEEKOM products. From June 15 to June 30, the GEEKOM Official Store will be running its Summer Sale, with discounts starting from 15% off across the entire lineup, up to 50%! This is their biggest promotion of the year so far, offering pricing that is even lower than select Prime Day deals. You can check out the discounts at the dedicated Summer Sale landing pages below. GEEKOM U.S. Summer Sale GEEKOM U.K. Summer Sale While the Summer Sale ends on June 30, this deal will remain active until July 2.
    • Microsoft unveils new Surface Laptop with improved trackpad, Snapdragon X2, and more

      By eilegz · Posted

      We are reached to the point that apple looks affordable and better choice than anything else, in what dystopia are we living in....
    • Star Trek: Strange New Worlds (Paramount+)

      By +primortal · Posted

    • Microsoft unveils new Surface Laptop with improved trackpad, Snapdragon X2, and more

      By ikjadoon · Posted

      Ouch. $1600 for 256GB SSD / 16GB? Even Apple, the purported "target" of Surface devices for a long time, has its MacBook Air M5 at 512GB SSD / 16GB RAM for $999 MSRP. Surface will never be reasonably priced with such low volumes.
    • Microsoft announces 12th-gen Surface Pro with Snapdragon X2 processors

      By AltecXP · Posted

      Sadly price is pretty in line with the other new X2 devices so far. RAM/SSD prices have ruined everything.

  • Popular Contributors

    1. 1
      +primortal
      522
    2. 2
      +Edouard
      201
    3. 3
      PsYcHoKiLLa
      110
    4. 4
      Steven P.
      89
    5. 5
      Nick H.
      71
    Show More

  • Tell a friend

    Love Neowin? Tell a friend!