Why are all cars (cept in US) manual

[PermaSt0ne]

Automatics use more petrol than manuals. Plus they're simply no fun whatsoever to drive.

this says it all

better gas mileage and WAY more fun to drive

[djweasel]

I don't agree with people when they say "manuals are fun" in general when you're driving city it gets kinda annoying and I would rather have a automatic since I go from snow in the winter for 9 months and sun for about 3. If I had a exotic car then yea it'd be manual but not for a everyday driver.

[Pilsbury]

@chconline- ya, i totally hate the way riding in a manual feels.... I'm ALWAYS carsick when i ride in someone's manual.... and i never get carsick in an automatic......

Hmmm, you friends must be really bad drivers, as with a decent driver, you shouldn't be able to distinguish the difference between manual and auto..

[Sean B. Veteran]

I don't agree with people when they say "manuals are fun" in general when you're driving city it gets kinda annoying and I would rather have a automatic since I go from snow in the winter for 9 months and sun for about 3. If I had a exotic car then yea it'd be manual but not for a everyday driver.

QFT

Before I bought my Altima, I drove a Dodge Neon with a 5 speed manual. I absolutely hated it, especially when driving in big cities like Nashville and Atlanta. It was ridiculas.

[recursive_action]

I don't quite understand what's so hard about driving in heavy traffic/big cities. If things are moving slowly, just leave it in second and coast along going 5-15mph. I've never even had to use my breaks doing it this way.

This works perfectly fine in my congested 1 hour commute.

[shakey_snake]

More expensive what? Automatics are CHEAPER in Australia then manuals. Thats right, you pay for the privlidge to have a manual in your everyday Commodore and Falcon. I thought this was the same with the rest of the world aswell? Obviously not...

Mass production makes things significantly cheaper.

But on a per unit basis, manual transmissions are cheaper to make/maintain. If Australian automakers made as many manual trannys as they do autos, the manuals would be cheaper.

[chconline Veteran]

I don't see any problems with driving manual in practically any situation. If you're bothered by it usually you're just not really good.

I've done traffic jams in backwards slopes in snow. It's about as hard as it gets. It's not that hard as long as you can coordinate (Play more sports? lol)

[zivan56]

I doubt most average joes shift anywhere near the redline. If that were true European roads would be loud as yell as everyone in their focuses and golfs and whatnot revved at 7000+ rpm. Here too many people drive automatic so I can't say, but it's common knowledge to shift in general somewhere around 2500-3500rpm to be efficient.

Of all the people I know that drive manual, none of them even look at the tachometer when shifting, they just do it when it sounds like they need to (and this depends on the engine noise isolation).

Manual transmission doesn't prevent you from driving with 2 hands. It does however encourage you to drive in douche mode, AKA 1 hand on wheel and 1 hand on shift knob which I admit to do a lot. Only on the highway I mostly use 2 hands.

Most people driving manual keep their hand on the shifter. At least that is what I notice in traffic.

Lexus IS 250

It doesn't have the same feature I was talking about, only the automatic version has it. Hence the reason it is the lowest price Lexus.

If you want to argue about manual for performance, why does the IS-F have auto only then? And basically is equivilent/better than an M3 stick. Not to mention the IS 350 doesn't have a manual option either.

A manual doesn't NEED a snow mode, and that's th epoint! Those automatics have those features to make up for the natural lack of the automatic transmission's ability to cope with it's conditions.

Do you even know how snow mode works? Read my post again...it's not just starting in 2nd gear...it actually chooses gears based on slippage (instead of blindly upshifting as tire speed increases over a slick surface)....and does this thousands of times faster than any human.

Both hands on wheel? As mentioned, it takes only a second to shift. As for fuel savings, obviously you don't even know HOW they do it. It's completely automated, there's nobody at the wheel man, it's computer controlled. If you talk about real world tests though, there's an even bigger gap where a manual gets better mileage than the automatic (unless of course the person floors it).

Most people that drive manuals keep their hand on the shifter. Unless you have some big ass SUV, when you hit a pothole, the steering wheel will jerk into the direction of the hole, so it quite important. Computer controlled? :rolleyes: Yeah, it's called an automatic transmission.

Better gas mileage is fast becoming a myth. Let's take a look at the Lexus IS 250 (as was posted above)

IS 250 RWD Standard: Fuel Consumption - City/Highway/Combined L/100km 11.4/7.5/9.7

IS 250 RWD Automatic: Fuel Consumption - City/Highway/Combined L/100km 9.8/6.8/8.4

Look it up for yourself here.

And yes, I do have a bias against automatics. I grew up driving manuals and now for some strange reason all the cars in my family including mine are autos. I hate it. I get crummy mileage in comparion, I have no fun because I have nothing to do (which makes me drowsy and less safe), and again, it is no damn fun. Driving should be enjoyable, not just point a to point b (like *cough* you probably do *cough*).

I do enjoy driving, and having one more less thing to do is far more enjoyable for me. Hence the reason I bought a Lexus GS 350 and not a Hyundai Accent 3DR...all those accessories and automation is what I consider a more enjoyable drive. Plus if I want to, I can use the shifter in manual mode

[chconline Veteran]

Of all the people I know that drive manual, none of them even look at the tachometer when shifting, they just do it when it sounds like they need to (and this depends on the engine noise isolation).

Experienced drivers who knows their car does not need to look at the tach to shift. When I drive my car, I just know when to shift, whether it's the grading, speed, or situation. I give it a glance occasionally, but there's no particular reason why the driver in a manual really needs to look at the tach unless you're at the track.

Most people driving manual keep their hand on the shifter. At least that is what I notice in traffic.

A lot of people keep their hands on a bagel, newspaper, Timmy's, or cell phone in traffic. That's what I notice people with automatics.

It doesn't have the same feature I was talking about, only the automatic version has it. Hence the reason it is the lowest price Lexus.

If you want to argue about manual for performance, why does the IS-F have auto only then? And basically is equivilent/better than an M3 stick. Not to mention the IS 350 doesn't have a manual option either.

There are no particular reason to argue performance of a transmission based on manufacturer preferences. Lexus is doing mostly what Merc is doing -- having automatics most of the time.

I can make the same argument of why the Audi S4 and RS4 only has manual transmissions :huh:

Most people that drive manuals keep their hand on the shifter. Unless you have some big ass SUV, when you hit a pothole, the steering wheel will jerk into the direction of the hole, so it quite important. Computer controlled? rolleyes.gif Yeah, it's called an automatic transmission.

Better gas mileage is fast becoming a myth. Let's take a look at the Lexus IS 250 (as was posted above)

IS 250 RWD Standard: Fuel Consumption - City/Highway/Combined L/100km 11.4/7.5/9.7

IS 250 RWD Automatic: Fuel Consumption - City/Highway/Combined L/100km 9.8/6.8/8.4

Look it up for yourself here.

You do realize that, manual transmissions have specified shift points during mileage testings, while automatics don't so the manufacturer can program that in. For highway, they just usually have longer gear ratios.

There's no physical way that a torque converter can provide better fuel economy other that using the "cheats" as aforementioned, due to fluid coupling losses and adding 40-80 pounds to the curb weight of the vehicle in front.

[rathefeare]

Most people driving manual keep their hand on the shifter. At least that is what I notice in traffic.

Most people that drive manuals keep their hand on the shifter. Unless you have some big ass SUV, when you hit a pothole, the steering wheel will jerk into the direction of the hole, so it quite important.

Those people are wrong. Any driving school worth their price of admission would extinguish that behavior as would a single entrance in an auto cross. I also question that most people really do this. No one I know does it out of habit. No one except posers would be cruising around at speed with a hand on the shifter. Do you have a source by chance? What you are observing while in traffic might be some people preparing to shift into first from neutral.

[+virtorio MVC]

I live in NZ and only know one person who has a manual.

[revvo]

Of all the people I know that drive manual, none of them even look at the tachometer when shifting, they just do it when it sounds like they need to (and this depends on the engine noise isolation).

Well yeah, that's how it works. In the beginning we take peaks at our tachometer, but eventually when you know your car all you need is the sound to tell how fast you're going and how much your engine's revving. You should pay attention to the road, not your instruments.

Most people driving manual keep their hand on the shifter. At least that is what I notice in traffic.

Don't get me started on how busy drivers are in automatic cars with their cellphones and Tim Hortons muffins and coffee and cigarettes that they're waving out of their window.

It doesn't have the same feature I was talking about, only the automatic version has it. Hence the reason it is the lowest price Lexus.

If you want to argue about manual for performance, why does the IS-F have auto only then? And basically is equivilent/better than an M3 stick. Not to mention the IS 350 doesn't have a manual option either.

Well for starters, the IS-F was made to be a M3 beater, but it's not as reviewed by Best Motoring, Top Gear, Fifth Gear, etc. It's too busy shifting through its 8 gears and trying to stay on track.

If you want to talk about performance shifters, talk about sequential manual transmissions but you have loads of sports cars fast in their class with stickshift.

[zivan56]

Experienced drivers who knows their car does not need to look at the tach to shift. When I drive my car, I just know when to shift, whether it's the grading, speed, or situation. I give it a glance occasionally, but there's no particular reason why the driver in a manual really needs to look at the tach unless you're at the track.

Well I doubt anybody can shift at the exact point required, while a computer does it in thousands of a second.

A lot of people keep their hands on a bagel, newspaper, Timmy's, or cell phone in traffic. That's what I notice people with automatics.

I notice that with people driving manuals as well. In fact, I saw a guy recently pinching a cellphone between his should and ear (with head tilted) while steering and shifting. I guess all stick drivers are suicidal? It must be so, this guy apparently was. :rolleyes:

There are no particular reason to argue performance of a transmission based on manufacturer preferences. Lexus is doing mostly what Merc is doing -- having automatics most of the time.

I can make the same argument of why the Audi S4 and RS4 only has manual transmissions :huh:

Go to audi.ca and open the car builder. Audi S4 does have an option for manual AND automatic. Even the R8 has the option. Where are you looking? :blink:

You do realize that, manual transmissions have specified shift points during mileage testings, while automatics don't so the manufacturer can program that in. For highway, they just usually have longer gear ratios.

There's no physical way that a torque converter can provide better fuel economy other that using the "cheats" as aforementioned, due to fluid coupling losses and adding 40-80 pounds to the curb weight of the vehicle in front.

I didn't make up the stats, check the link. Whatever it they "cheat" on, it does provide better fuel consumption and the same performance in an automatic varient. Actually, the manual transmission one weights less (again, check the link).

Those people are wrong. Any driving school worth their price of admission would extinguish that behavior as would a single entrance in an auto cross. I also question that most people really do this. No one I know does it out of habit. No one except posers would be cruising around at speed with a hand on the shifter. Do you have a source by chance? What you are observing while in traffic might be some people preparing to shift into first from neutral.

Source? Sure, me. I can see it when I take the bus if I go downtown and I have friends in both Europe and over here that drive manuals (and all of them do this). Why would you shift to neutral when stopping? :blink: Just hold the clutch...

Well yeah, that's how it works. In the beginning we take peaks at our tachometer, but eventually when you know your car all you need is the sound to tell how fast you're going and how much your engine's revving. You should pay attention to the road, not your instruments.

You still cannot do better than a computer. Your only input is a tachometre and a sound. The ECU of a car has access to hundreds of sensors, as I have said before.

Don't get me started on how busy drivers are in automatic cars with their cellphones and Tim Hortons muffins and coffee and cigarettes that they're waving out of their window.

Don't get me started on how only 5-10% of people drive manual transmissions, and your stats are worthless. The majority of people drive auto, hence you get millions more people compared to people who drive standard. Take a statistics class recently?

Well for starters, the IS-F was made to be a M3 beater, but it's not as reviewed by Best Motoring, Top Gear, Fifth Gear, etc. It's too busy shifting through its 8 gears and trying to stay on track.

You mean biased reviews by these clowns? Yes, they did:

Fifth Gear

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRDL5hiEMto

Oh yeah, this is a very serious test...from guys :rolleyes:

Best Motoring

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKaE8ZQKT9M

Top Gear

http://www.topgear.com/uk/lexus/is-f

Again, don't talk about stuff you have no clue about (or apparently, can't google). I see you are ignoring half my post, so it is most likely you are just posting flamebait.

[uniacidz]

Hey

I was wondering why in most parts of the world cars are manual instead of automatic. I mean I know manual allows a bit better speed/accelaration and use to be cheaper than automatic but other than that automatic is better as it is one less thing you have to worry about when driving.

Mines auto

In aus you can get either, but auto is more popular due to whatever reasons.

Personally, i like auto

[rathefeare]

Source? Sure, me. I can see it when I take the bus if I go downtown and I have friends in both Europe and over here that drive manuals (and all of them do this). Why would you shift to neutral when stopping? :blink: Just hold the clutch...

You still cannot do better than a computer. Your only input is a tachometre and a sound. The ECU of a car has access to hundreds of sensors, as I have said before.

Sorry you are not a credible source. Well you might be, you might be the Secretary of Transportation. If you are let us know. You would shift to neutral while stopping so that you can take your foot off the clutch. This lets you rest your leg, but more importantly it keeps pressure off of the throwout bearing making it last longer.

I'm not sure how you mean that you can't do better than a computer. Professional drivers are able to outperform what a computer says that they should be able to do on a given course. There is a reason that no one at the top of any motor sport is using automatic transmissions. We have another input that you missed. A big brain, one that is capable of making decisions based on inputs especially visual ones that a computer does not have. Additionally one of the major advantages to a manual transmission is that you can tell the car what gear you would like to be in for the corner prior to getting to it. No computer is able to read your mind or "know" the correct gear for a corner ahead of time. In an auto transmission after turn in and when you get back on the gas the transmission then determines the correct gear and if you are feathering the gas it might make more than one gear change. In a manual I have already made the gear selection several seconds ago under braking and transmission is in the gear I want for the duration of the corner no matter what I do with the throttle. At Limerock I would spot an automatic 50whp to make up for the limited cornering capabilities.

[Mouldy Punk]

To the guy who was saying that computers judgement > than people judgement;

I drive manual shift, and I judge when to change gear based on a wide range of 'sensors' (my senses). I listen to the engine, does it sound like it wants to change gear? I see the incline I'm driving up/down - is now a good time to change gear? I see/hear the head/side/tail winds - is it wise to change gear? I feel if the engine would be happy to change gear (overloaded car, you can feel an engine struggle). My 20 year old Fiesta doesn't have an "ECU", and thus, it doesn't have sensors attached to it. Even on a more modern level - whilst computers could be capable of monitoring all these thinks with floating-point precision - what's the point? People can do it naturally - we all use our senses. Having an ECU with enough power to monitor x number of sensors with y precision does nothing but add cost. It's not a burden on the driver to do these things him/herself, you do it naturally. Zero effort.

[recursive_action]

sounds to me like zivan56 paid extra for the bells and whistles and is trying to rationalize that decision.

Who needs a 'snow mode' when everything it does can be dictated by common sense.

[Mouldy Punk]

sounds to me like zivan56 paid extra for the bells and whistles and is trying to rationalize that decision.

Who needs a 'snow mode' when everything it does can be dictated by common sense.

In fairness, common sense is probably the least common of the senses.

[revvo]

Well I doubt anybody can shift at the exact point required, while a computer does it in thousands of a second.

Race car drivers know, so it's not impossible

You still cannot do better than a computer. Your only input is a tachometre and a sound. The ECU of a car has access to hundreds of sensors, as I have said before.

But we do. Many semi automatic cars don't shift at the right time and almost all of them will shift for you if you're at the red line, where's the so-called compromise of getting some control?

Don't get me started on how only 5-10% of people drive manual transmissions, and your stats are worthless. The majority of people drive auto, hence you get millions more people compared to people who drive standard. Take a statistics class recently?

5-10% people drive manual in America because 5-10% care to have fun or want control or the simplicity of how a manual transmission works. Maintenance is also better, easier to fix and lighter than a torque converter or dual clutch system.

You mean biased reviews by these clowns

...

Find me an IS-F review where it outperforms the M3 on a circuit, then we'll talk.

Top gear and Fifth Gear lately yes, they're entertainment shows although Fifth Gear has better racers. Best motoring however is serious business. The day you call Keiichi Tsuchiya "The drift king" a clown is the day you have absolutely no clue. That day is today.

Again, don't talk about stuff you have no clue about (or apparently, can't google). I see you are ignoring half my post, so it is most likely you are just posting flamebait.

I'm not ignoring half of your post. I only quote what I can contribute to. The rest is taken care by other members :p

[Maid of Orleans]

I had no idea so many people who drove manual transmission were fan boys for the knob stick.

Even subjective statements in favor of automatic transmission are negated; can you say confirmation bias? For example...

Whether or not shifting is extra work is entirely up to the driver, and I can guarantee with 100% certainty that anyone halfway decent at driving a manual won't consider a shift knob "extra work".

Clearly automatic is for the confused folks.

Has it ever occurred to some of you that many people just don't get off on driving? Better yet that someone may [here is the kicker, it is going to be a difficult concept for many of you to grasp] prefer automatic over manual and not be an inept driver.

I have driven both manual and automatic transmission. I find especially in traffic it is more tedious than driving automatic. Now, there must be something wrong with me right? There must be something you can imagine to disqualify my preference. Heaven forbid anyone have a different preference than a fan boy.

[Dysphoria]

There is a difference between driving and commuting to work. Try commuting to work every day in L.A. or New York, stuck in a traffic for hours and down shift / up shift for all that time, it does get tiring after a while... Thats why automatic transmition cars are popular in the US....

Now when I go out for a ride, take HWY 1, 101, hwy 5 or 280 I love driving my Manual Trans Ford GT. There is no comparison about the fun factor between Manual Trans. and Automatic.

I even tried the Triptronic I still prefer the regular manual Trans.... With manual transmition, you drive by feeling, you can hear the car, feel the change...

If anyone lives in California you have to love taking those curves on HWY 1. My GT just glides .... :)

[djweasel]

QFT

Before I bought my Altima, I drove a Dodge Neon with a 5 speed manual. I absolutely hated it, especially when driving in big cities like Nashville and Atlanta. It was ridiculas.

Yea my friend lives in Nashville (new country singer who was on nashville star) but yea, I don't like manuals too much they are rare up here I love my altima though.

[recursive_action]

QFT

Before I bought my Altima, I drove a Dodge Neon with a 5 speed manual. I absolutely hated it, especially when driving in big cities like Nashville and Atlanta. It was ridiculas.

Might've been the fact that it was a Dodge Neon :p

[Mouldy Punk]

There is a difference between driving and commuting to work. Try commuting to work every day in L.A. or New York, stuck in a traffic for hours and down shift / up shift for all that time, it does get tiring after a while... Thats why automatic transmition cars are popular in the US....

--snip--

It's not just the US that has heavy traffic y'know.

[revvo]

I have driven both manual and automatic transmission. I find especially in traffic it is more tedious than driving automatic. Now, there must be something wrong with me right? There must be something you can imagine to disqualify my preference. Heaven forbid anyone have a different preference than a fan boy.

No there's nothing wrong. One prefers simplicity and peace of mind over a few extra given tasks while driving, that's okay.

My only beef with manual transmissions is that some people think they're race car drivers with mad skills because they can stickshift. The result of that is lame drivers who are careless and end up getting ****ed somewhere on the road.

That doesn't concern me though, so it's only beneficial in I and most drivers case. The added bonus of being able to heel & toe is great too :D