Why is Calendar removed?

[sundayx Veteran]

I'm not a beta tester, just a regular bloke hoping to use 7 when it arrives, but I was just wondering why Calendar is removed from being a default application and become part of "Live"? Calendar seems like an essential application to have on a computer, and certainly it would be much more convenient to have a built in calendar application. What happened?

[Elliot B.]

I'm not a beta tester, just a regular bloke hoping to use 7 when it arrives, but I was just wondering why Calendar is removed from being a default application and become part of "Live"? Calendar seems like an essential application to have on a computer, and certainly it would be much more convenient to have a built in calendar application. What happened?

Does seem a bit daft, I'll give you that.

[+Gary7 Subscriber²]

MS removed some features and added them as a free download called Windows Live Essentials.

[Admodieus]

Microsoft is pulling these applications out because they're afraid of legislation from the U.S. and the EU. The European Union complains about Windows Media Player being included in Windows - what makes you think they won't come after calendar, mail, or photo gallery next?

[thealexweb]

It's easier to update something if it's not part of Windows itself. Ever wondered why Windows Mail never received any updates.

[+Gary7 Subscriber²]

It's easier to update something if it's not part of Windows itself. Ever wondered why Windows Mail never received any updates.

Mine did. For Junk Mail.

[sharp65]

It's easier to update something if it's not part of Windows itself. Ever wondered why Windows Mail never received any updates.

That's the big reason, it's a lot easier to update then waiting for a new OS to roll out.

[Calum Veteran]

I'm not a beta tester, just a regular bloke hoping to use 7 when it arrives, but I was just wondering why Calendar is removed from being a default application and become part of "Live"? Calendar seems like an essential application to have on a computer, and certainly it would be much more convenient to have a built in calendar application. What happened?

That's why it's called Windows Live Essentials ;) They are essential applications for the Windows operating system and are an extension to Windows.

In all seriousness though, I understand your point and see why you think this :)

Microsoft will apparently be pushing the release of Windows Live Essentials when Windows 7 is released (and even before, as Dell is going to start including it with Windows Vista and Windows 7 (when it is released), from February onwards).

I just hope more manufacturers start to include it and Windows 7 has an obvious link inside the operating system for people to download the suite (maybe even in the 'start' menu and on the taskbar by default).

I am glad they have taken the applications out as it means less bloat and space for Windows and the applications can be updated much more frequently and much more easily. They have so much more features, already than Windows Vista's native programs.

Also, is it just me that thinks an operating system should be just that? An operating system should do what it is meant to do - provide a platform for applications to run on. Add-on programs, like calendars, mail applications, instant messengers, etc should be able to be downloaded for free (if developed by the company who produced the operating system).

I even think Windows Media Player should be Windows Live Media Player and be part of Windows Live Essentials, with blatant links provided in Windows to inform the user of its existence.

Just my opinion ;)

[phot0nic]

Calendar seems like an essential application to have on a computer, and certainly it would be much more convenient to have a built in calendar application. What happened?

Not really. I know that I certainly don't use the built-in calendar program. I use Google Calendar, and most business users use Outlook.

Also, is it just me that thinks an operating system should be just that? An operating system should do what it is meant to do - provide a platform for applications to run on. Add-on programs, like calendars, mail applications, instant messengers, etc should be able to be downloaded for free (if developed by the company who produced the operating system).

I completely agree. I'd even go so far as to say that many of the "OS features" should be removed from the core as well, like Media Center.

[Calum Veteran]

I completely agree. I'd even go so far as to say that many of the "OS features" should be removed from the core as well, like Media Center.

Aha! Something I forgot about! You're right, Windows Media Center should also be removed. I think Windows, while being a lighter operating system, would also be a more efficient operating system with these applications removed from the default installation.

With a little education (advertising, promotion and removable links within the operating system), users will be able to be made aware of these applications and download them separately as they wish.

This may also give the developers of the operating system more time to work and prefect actual operating system features and interface elements ;)

I think the same should apply to Mac OS X and Linux distros (although, I do not know how the latter work).

[Pikey]

Like the OP I found it a bit odd that there isn't a built-in calendar! It can't be that difficult to build something into the task bar clock surely!

That said the old calendar was pretty ropey ..

[burnblue]

Like the OP I found it a bit odd that there isn't a built-in calendar! It can't be that difficult to build something into the task bar clock surely!

That said the old calendar was pretty ropey ..

To be honest, I never really used Windows Calendar in Vista. I started, but I always ending up swaying to Outlook or Google Calendar or something. If I'm not mistaken, Vista was the first Windows to have such a Calendar app, right?

I mean, if you want to find a date the calendar in the taskbar works very well, so I assume we're all referring to an app that lets you record appointments, etc. In that case I like having it a part of Windows Live, so syncing and data portability is something automatic. If a Photo Gallery can't come with the OS, I expect a Calendar app will be treated the same. For what it's worth, I'd expect Media Center to be a download too.

The bottom line is that Windows Live absolutely needs to have a calendar (and a contacts app, etc). Microsoft decided to stop duplicating effort, and I can admire that. Also, remember that a lot of people if they have Outlook are going to use that instead. Bundling a redundant app in the OS that may not be used but is only a download away, I think is an OK move.

[Ron_Jeremy]

Isn't the Calendar now part of Windows Mail?

[Denis W. Veteran]

^^ Yeah, but go tell that to a regular user that to find their contacts and calendar in their MAIL application, and they'll just stare at you weird. :|

That being said, I really like the fact my calendar can stay synched between my desktop, laptop, and on the Net.

[sundayx Veteran]

Aha! Something I forgot about! You're right, Windows Media Center should also be removed. I think Windows, while being a lighter operating system, would also be a more efficient operating system with these applications removed from the default installation.

With a little education (advertising, promotion and removable links within the operating system), users will be able to be made aware of these applications and download them separately as they wish.

This may also give the developers of the operating system more time to work and prefect actual operating system features and interface elements ;)

I think the same should apply to Mac OS X and Linux distros (although, I do not know how the latter work).

Well to me these "essential" applications should be there out-of-the-box because a lot of users out there (moms and grannies alike) will have no clue where to get these useful applications, including media center, but on the other hand they probably won't need them (certainly Calendar might be useful to move them into the digital world). But do you get my idea?

[burnblue]

^^ Yeah, but go tell that to a regular user that to find their contacts and calendar in their MAIL application, and they'll just stare at you weird. :|

That being said, I really like the fact my calendar can stay synched between my desktop, laptop, and on the Net.

Yeah, I like the fact that my contacts and my calendar (I don't use mail on the desktop) stay synched with the net, but like you said I hate having to go into my Mail app to get to Contacts or Calendar (especially since I don't use desktop mail).

They really should unbundle them. Keep the information linked and readily accessible, but unbundle Contacts, Calendar, Mail, Feeds and Newsgroups.

[Brandon Live Veteran]

Well to me these "essential" applications should be there out-of-the-box because a lot of users out there (moms and grannies alike) will have no clue where to get these useful applications, including media center, but on the other hand they probably won't need them (certainly Calendar might be useful to move them into the digital world). But do you get my idea?

They will be there out of the box. Did you not see that Dell is already shipping the Windows Live Essentials on their PCs? You can bet others will follow suit...

You have more or less the same arrangement on the Mac. iLife isn't part of the OS, but it comes with any Apple machine you buy.

[Ron_Jeremy]

If you don't like the bundling of Calendar with Mail you could always try Sunbird :)

[Denis W. Veteran]

Yeah, I like the fact that my contacts and my calendar (I don't use mail on the desktop) stay synched with the net, but like you said I hate having to go into my Mail app to get to Contacts or Calendar (especially since I don't use desktop mail).

They really should unbundle them. Keep the information linked and readily accessible, but unbundle Contacts, Calendar, Mail, Feeds and Newsgroups.

I'd rather they give Windows Live Mail an appropriate rename, since it's clearly more than an email client today.

[Redestium]

If you don't like the bundling of Calendar with Mail you could always try Sunbird :)

When was the last time that was updated? NM I checked the release notes. :)

Another app to try would be Rainlendar, the paid version syncs with outlook and google calendar too.

[Calum Veteran]

Well to me these "essential" applications should be there out-of-the-box because a lot of users out there (moms and grannies alike) will have no clue where to get these useful applications, including media center, but on the other hand they probably won't need them (certainly Calendar might be useful to move them into the digital world). But do you get my idea?

Yes I get your idea, but that's why I think Microsoft could easily put obvious (removable) links and advertisements inside the operating system in order to educate users about Windows Live Essentials (and ideally, Windows Media Center, Windows Media Player, etc).

In fact, they could even put options on the installation disk, with aq description of each application.

Whether Microsoft would lose out on users or not (I'm sure it wouldn't be that many they'd lose out on because of 'word of mouth' and the advertisements. In fact, they could gain users), it really would make the operating system more efficient and that way they would be able to update these applications more frequently.

The same goes for Windows Internet Explorer, so more people use an alternative browser and I don't have to bother making my website compatible with Internet Explorer (it works with other web browsers and whilst I am a beginner and have other exams and assignments, I don't have the time :D).

I think all of the above would work?

I'd rather they give Windows Live Mail an appropriate rename, since it's clearly more than an email client today.

Exactly! You don't see Outlook have "Mail" anywhere in the title. Or Thunderbird... That's because they are not just email clients!

I like your previous idea of "Windows Live Communications". Users can be educated on its features and the fact it is more than mail or it has mail included, from advertising and promotion; especially inside the operating system itself.

With all this promotion I am suggesting, there wouldn't be too much of it. One simple program showcasing all of the applications available, as well as some links inside the 'start' menu (and some on the taskbar) really would help in my opinion.

I just want an operating system to do what it is supposed to do and not have all these "add-ons" built into it.

[Redestium]

Yes I get your idea, but that's why I think Microsoft could easily put obvious (removable) links and advertisements inside the operating system in order to educate users about Windows Live Essentials (and ideally, Windows Media Center, Windows Media Player, etc).

In fact, they could even put options on the installation disk, with aq description of each application.

Whether Microsoft would lose out on users or not (I'm sure it wouldn't be that many they'd lose out on because of 'word of mouth' and the advertisements. In fact, they could gain users), it really would make the operating system more efficient and that way they would be able to update these applications more frequently.

The same goes for Windows Internet Explorer, so more people use an alternative browser and I don't have to bother making my website compatible with Internet Explorer (it works with other web browsers and whilst I am a beginner and have other exams and assignments, I don't have the time :D).

I think all of the above would work?

Exactly! You don't see Outlook have "Mail" anywhere in the title. Or Thunderbird... That's because they are not just email clients!

I like your previous idea of "Windows Live Communications". Users can be educated on its features and the fact it is more than mail or it has mail included, from advertising and promotion; especially inside the operating system itself.

With all this promotion I am suggesting, there wouldn't be too much of it. One simple program showcasing all of the applications available, as well as some links inside the 'start' menu (and some on the taskbar) really would help in my opinion.

I just want an operating system to do what it is supposed to do and not have all these "add-ons" built into it.

How would they download anything if there wasn't a browser built in (IE)?

[Calum Veteran]

How would they download anything if there wasn't a browser built in (IE)?

Hahaha! I didn't think of that :blush:

Scrap that last part then, it's just my beef with Internet Explorer 7's rendering engine which made me say that :p

I'm hoping Windows Internet Explorer 8 will be much better after hearing it is gearing towards standards more!

[thealexweb]

Something that I find mean is that Windows now as to supply its N series for Europe. Apple don't have to supply a version without iTunes and Quicktime. The regulators are just being mean attacking some companies but leaving others alone.

[burnblue]

I'd rather they give Windows Live Mail an appropriate rename, since it's clearly more than an email client today.

I like your previous idea of "Windows Live Communications".

Well if they just rename it, when I want to pull up my list of contacts, I still have to open the app and then wait while it locks up trying to download POP3 stuff before I get it to cancel, and then click to Contacts (which comes up as a separate Window: what's the point?).

When I see an app called "Communications" I wouldn't necessarily know that's where my Calendar is. The names Contacts, Mail, Newsgroups, Calendar etc, are pretty self-explanatory.

Maybe an in between solution would be this: In the installer they have, indent these apps under one checkbox called Communications or whatever, with certain sub-items having disabled and selected checkboxes so that you can't install Mail without installing Contacts, or whatever.

Point is, I want to get to each one separately and I have no use for many of them (I don't need an RSS reader in my Contacts app!)

The same goes for Windows Internet Explorer, so more people use an alternative browser and I don't have to bother making my website compatible with Internet Explorer (it works with other web browsers and whilst I am a beginner and have other exams and assignments, I don't have the time :D).

No matter what, you still have to develop for Internet Explorer. You don't just leave browsers out in the cold.