Star Trek Into Darkness

By Rappy
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Grand Master

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The borg probably wouldn't be anywhere as advanced due to not assimilating nearly as many species yet. They may not even be able "assimilate" (due to not acquiring the tech yet) so there's plenty of scope to examine the roots of the Borg.

...however, isn't it postulated that kirk and his crew may have accidentally created the Borg during the whole V'ger incident in The Motion Picture? They may not even exist in this timeline!

All of that V'Ger/Borg stuff is non-cannon though, and none of it has ever made into any TV series or movie, though there was a slight wink and nod to Shatner's Avenger (I think that was the title of the last book he did in that series) book in First Contact I believe. Either way, the Borg as we know them have existed for many centuries, according to Voyager's timeline of events and actual spoken dialog by the Queen in a couple of episodes. Don't forget, they were originally going to do an Enterprise episode showing how a female Starfleet engineer or something was captured by the Borg, assmilated and then would become the first Borg Queen (or something along those lines).

I rather enjoyed the way they did the Borg in the one Enterprise episode. They felt like the old Borg, menacing while still being understated and ...Borgy? Plus, they could totally do something like that in the rebootverse if you think about it. While Picard's crew are responsible for the Borg knowning about Earth in general (though that can be argued to death of course) there are ways around it, especially if you do a Borg origin story type deal, where they are either directly created by someone or something, or a effect of something someone or something does. I'd just love to see the Borg with all the new fangled SFX they have these days, not to mention a kick ass space battle. Then again, the ships in Star Trek didn't appear to have shields even though they were mentioned, so not sure how that would look?

Grand Master

LOC Veteran

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Dear god no, enough with the Borg ffs, how about coming up with something new?

That would be ideal of course, but this is Hollywood we are talking about. New ideas are hard to come by there. Indie land has them in spades, but JJ isn't from Indie land anymore (was he ever?).

Honestly I'd love for them to a storyline about some insidious Federation group bent on taking it over and becoming all militaristic. Kinda like the Terran Empire from the Mirror Universe I suppose in story I guess. But obviously not them. Or maybe it is them...in the rebootverse. Who knows. Maybe an invading alien species that can mimic Humans and other Humanoids and tries to take over Starfleet from within (though that's been done before a couple of times now) etc. There's alot they could do, but probably won't.

I'm sure we will get Klingons in the 3rd movie. And if not Klingons, probably something else we've seen before, just "re-imagined" for the rebootverse.

Grand Master

LOC Veteran

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Archer and crew encountered the Borg so they can have The Borg in one of the Trek movies. It would be awesome with JJ Abrahams at the helm once again.

But they only encountered the Borg because Picard and crew were back in the 21st century at First Contact. In the rebootverse, we have no idea if those events took place in the future, or if they will play out any way similar to how we know them to be. In other words, unless they do a time travel story again, and show the future (or past as it were) and show Picard(ish) stopping the Borg etc, it just hasn't happened yet. Not to mention, I doubt they would go to that well again to be honest.

Grand Master

Yusuf M. Veteran

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When I saw the poster, I didn't think of the Borg at all. I thought of someone standing on the edge of a broken building. I can't think of one good reason the Borg would show up in the TOS era (even if it's an alternate reality) that doesn't involve time travel or wormholes.

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Shane Nokes

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Star Trek credentials... REVOKED.

Not quite. The events in First Contact took place in the 21st Century.

Those events led to some Borg being trapped on Earth in a frozen state. Those Borg were thawed and that's how the NX-01 crew were able to meet the Borg.

It was the 1701-D that was introduced to them by Q in the 24th Century.

So the post is 100% correct.

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Grand Master

Yusuf M. Veteran

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They first encountered the Borg when Q sent the Enterprise to the Delta quadrant. They followed the Borg back to the 21st century in First Contact.

Star Trek credentials... REVOKED.

There's nothing wrong with his post. The Borg was first encountered in 2063 (in the events of Star Trek: First Contact).

Grand Master

Axel

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Not quite. The events in First Contact took place in the 21st Century.

Those events led to some Borg being trapped on Earth in a frozen state. Those Borg were thawed and that's how the NX-01 crew were able to meet the Borg.

It was the 1701-D that was introduced to them by Q in the 24th Century.

So the post is 100% correct.

Just to add to this, in enterprise, the borg also succeeded in transmitting a message with the location of earth to the collective, only the message was supposedly not going to reach the borg until sometime in the 24th century. The whole things a big grandfather paradox type thing.

So if anything Q did them all a favour by giving the federation forewarning that they were coming.

Grand Master

LOC Veteran

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Thanks guys for defending my Trek nerd cred :D

Plus if you guys really wanna get into a debate, in the non-cannon books of course, Section 31 (and Starfleet etc) knew about the Borg (thanks to the events of First Contact, and the Enterprise episode) longgggggg before Picard and company went to the Delta quadrant.

And, yes, Q did do them a favor actually. Not to mention if you watch that episode again, the Borg were ALREADY on their way to Earth at that point. :D

Grand Master

George P Global Moderator

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Well, as far as the old timeline goes what he said is spot on but since we're talking about time travel having changed things twice here who knows for sure how things have worked out? Do the changes in the new movie effect the future enough that events in TNGs time have also changed enough that maybe what happened in the first contact movie doesn't apply now? Maybe the borg never got the chance to go back in time at all?

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Shane Nokes

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Nero's ship used Borg tech. This means the timeline before he appeared has remained intact.

In other words we are seeing an alternate timeline, and the Prime universe still exists. So yes the Big-E still defeated the Borg in the new timeline in 2063 as well.

Temporal mechanics :(

Grand Master

Dot Matrix

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...however, isn't it postulated that kirk and his crew may have accidentally created the Borg during the whole V'ger incident in The Motion Picture? They may not even exist in this timeline!

Nah. The Borg existed as far back as the 15th Century.

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