Opera Continues to differ with Microsoft

[trag3dy]

Gah, where will it stop. WMP? Notepad?

EU already had Microsoft make it so WMP is not installed by default I think? Notepad, paint, and calculator are next. Oh yeah, and explorer.exe, third party file managers need a chance to compete too.

[Tech Star]

Maybe the EU should make Microsoft put a ballot screen for OS's also, seeing as they are doing this. On new PC's boot up's they have to choose from Windows, Linux, or w/e else there is. :rolleyes:

[argonite]

Maybe Microsoft should just ditch their browser. It has just given us headaches.

Confuse millions of users? Abandon support for thousands of corporate web applications? Break a multitude of Trident reliant applications?

Sounds like a smart plan to you?

Maybe the EU should make Microsoft put a ballot screen for OS's also, seeing as they are doing this. On new PC's boot up's they have to choose from Windows, Linux, or w/e else there is. :rolleyes:

EU should make a ballot about what commission should be policing competitive practises.

[BinaryFragger]

Users never got the chance to choose, because Microsoft used it's monopoly it has on the OS market to force IE on anyone who used Windows and even Mac (in 1997, see the first browser war). Users should have a chance choose which browser they want, based on features, speed or whatever browser was cool at the time, and if they choose IE that's fine at least they was given a choice.

A lot of people don't want to choose, though. They just want to bring their new Acer home, power it on and start browsing Facebook.

I know some 'non-techie' Mac owners who use Safari simply because it's the browser that was packaged with OS X. They either don't know about the alternatives, or don't care; they just use the default one.

If they used Ubuntu, they would most likely use Firefox (or whichever browser is set as default -- it's been a while since I used Ubuntu).

iPods are arguably the most popular MP3 players on the market. Should users be prompted to choose between iTunes, Songbird and MediaMonkey the first time they plug the iPod in their computer?

I agree that choice is generally good, but people just want computers that work 'out of the box.'

[Denis W. Veteran]

Many people siding with Opera seem to have a personal vendetta against Microsoft for their "criminal monopolist behavior", why don't you guys walk the talk and throw every ****ing Microsoft software off your PCs? I mean if it is that big of matter of punishing a "criminal monopolist" then there is nothing better than to vote with your wallet and use alternate OSs/platforms.

Why can't there be middle ground?

I'm not completely siding with either Opera or Microsoft. I do use Opera, but I do not have a vendetta against Microsoft either. I'm not seeing where all this outrage for a boycott and adding opera.com to blocklists is coming from...

At this point, realize that all sides seem to be cooperative. Opera, the EU, and Microsoft. Yes, what Opera is suggesting this time around may be a bit outlandish, but many here think they're still wholly dissatisfied with Microsoft's proposal - really?

At the end of the day, those of you who still choose Internet Explorer can still use it now and come Windows 7 general availability - no problem! What's the big deal here? It's not like browser marketshare numbers will suddenly start tilting in favour of one or two browsers once Windows 7 is widely released.

[Elessar]

I expect mass confusion when given 10 options and can see most users selected Internet Explorer because that's what they have used before most likely. I really hope this is the case and MS gets a big "**** You EU" :)

[libertas83]

Why can't there be middle ground?

I'm not completely siding with either Opera or Microsoft. I do use Opera, but I do not have a vendetta against Microsoft either. I'm not seeing where all this outrage for a boycott and adding opera.com to blocklists is coming from...

At this point, realize that all sides seem to be cooperative. Opera, the EU, and Microsoft. Yes, what Opera is suggesting this time around may be a bit outlandish, but many here think they're still wholly dissatisfied with Microsoft's proposal - really?

At the end of the day, those of you who still choose Internet Explorer can still use it now and come Windows 7 general availability - no problem! What's the big deal here? It's not like browser marketshare numbers will suddenly start tilting in favour of one or two browsers once Windows 7 is widely released.

I think the bigger deal is the precendent this sets for other tech companies and US companies in general.

EU has been letting companies abuse the EU system for far too long against Microsoft. What I find the most ironic about the IE Bundling issue though is that this is a free product! All of this uproar and concen over marketshare over a free product. That is funny.

Now, I can understand the hate on IE6 and standards issue, but Microsoft addressed that with IE8. I say let Microsoft force update it, then that fixes the standard compliance issue. So then we are back to, this is a free product!

[iamwhoiam]

You guys can't deny Microsoft is using it OS market share to force the users to use IE. Microsoft knew what they was doing from the start they trick the users of Windows in thinking "Internet Explorer" was the only way to get on to the internet and it worked.

I can deny it. Before IE, I used Netscape. When IE was bundled, I quit using Netscape. I wasn't forced to use one over the other. Most people, IMO, at the time were using Netscape and then used what was included with the OS. If they had wanted another browser besides what came with the OS, then I would think they would have chosen to do so.

Say whatever you want, but Microsoft bundling IE with the OS is not forcing anything on anyone.

[hjf288]

Netscape was snappier back in the day, but it looked uglier, web pages didn't render as well and had a tendency of crashing... Opera was a POS back in the day when you had to pay for it, I wouldnt mind using it now if they hadnt packed all that crap into it...

Fair enough you can say dont use it, but I dont want it there or in my sights :p

I want my browser to browse, utorrent for netbook isos/linux/bsd, thunderbird for mail.

Hence I use Internet explorer and Safari

[Jerry Grey Member]

A lot of people don't want to choose, though. They just want to bring their new Acer home, power it on and start browsing Facebook.

I know some 'non-techie' Mac owners who use Safari simply because it's the browser that was packaged with OS X. They either don't know about the alternatives, or don't care; they just use the default one.

If they used Ubuntu, they would most likely use Firefox (or whichever browser is set as default -- it's been a while since I used Ubuntu).

I agree that choice is generally good, but people just want computers that work 'out of the box.'

True, there are some people that don't want a choice or simply doesn't care. But there also some people that would be interested to know there other options, so would it hurt to add a screen when you first start the default browser, explaining what is a browser and saying there is other options out there? For the users who doesn't care they just need to close the screen and they will never see it again.

iPods are arguably the most popular MP3 players on the market. Should users be prompted to choose between iTunes, Songbird and MediaMonkey the first time they plug the iPod in their computer?

But when you plug in a iPod you don't need iTunes to access the iPod, iTunes is just another software you can download if you want it.

Why can't there be middle ground?

I'm not completely siding with either Opera or Microsoft. I do use Opera, but I do not have a vendetta against Microsoft either. I'm not seeing where all this outrage for a boycott and adding opera.com to blocklists is coming from...

At this point, realize that all sides seem to be cooperative. Opera, the EU, and Microsoft. Yes, what Opera is suggesting this time around may be a bit outlandish, but many here think they're still wholly dissatisfied with Microsoft's proposal - really?

At the end of the day, those of you who still choose Internet Explorer can still use it now and come Windows 7 general availability - no problem! What's the big deal here? It's not like browser marketshare numbers will suddenly start tilting in favour of one or two browsers once Windows 7 is widely released.

I agree, I have don't have vendetta against Microsoft, I am actually looking forward to Windows 7. I just don't agree with Microsoft current proposals, but it doesn't mean I have to stop using/buying Microsoft products. I also think its very silly to start boycotting Opera just you don't agree with one of their comments.

[xtrabit racing]

Yes, only Opera software make me laugh :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[Jerry Grey Member]

...free product!

Although browsers are free to the users, they create revenues for the creators. Opera, Firefox, IE and Chrome is ad-supported, Opera, Firefox and Chrome by Google and IE by Microsoft. So yes there is money involved, which is why EU is coming to the party.

[dead.cell]

Maybe Microsoft should just ditch their browser. It has just given us headaches.

Oh please. Microsoft has done nothing but improve many of their products recently. Suggesting that they should "ditch their browser" is not only a stupid business decision, it would hurt many other businesses and so forth that rely on IE.

Though, something tells me you're just looking to take a dig at Microsoft, correct? There are no shots being taken against Opera that they themselves haven't brought upon themselves. Honestly, I was a bit surprised to see that many Opera users were in complete disagreement with them. I mean, I'm aware that people have their own opinions, but I'm generally used to seeing a few people here ready to defend the company they favor. It seems Opera has probably lost those people as well.

Personally, as much as I began to dislike Opera's whining, I was still willing to test out their latest updates to Opera 10. Not anymore though. Probably the first time I've avoided software that didn't have to due with the actual software itself too. (not that I favored Opera all that well anyway, but I generally like to give updated applications a chance to win me over)

Edited July 29, 2009 by dead.cell

[jonhapimp]

But when you plug in a iPod you don't need iTunes to access the iPod, iTunes is just another software you can download if you want it.

what?

[ToneKnee]

I agree with Opera, I have talk to a few people who isn't "geekly" and I know when they see IE or the IE's logo they don't think its a browser, they think it is the internet and because they think it's the internet they don't going looking for other options.

Remember this isn't just Opera, all other browsers including Google and Mozilla has join this as well, so for all you guys who are boycotting Opera, you should be boycotting Google and Mozilla as well.

So why don't you guys think about this first, before you fanboys go off and defend your company Microsoft.

Google and Mozilla agreed that there should be a change in how Microsoft implements Internet Explorer and quite happy with the ballot screen suggestion (one of the few options they had the first time round before MS decided to remove IE).

Let's not forget that Mozilla is making it's own inroads into the browser market, they have the experience, longer than that of Opera. Firefox is doing well market share wise and is continuing to grow. Internet Explorer has what now? 65%? And dropping quite fast. Google have just took on the competition, but they have it advertised all over Google, YouTube etc.

So let's face the facts. Firefox + Google have the marketing. Opera don't. Maybe Google should remove Chrome from all it's pages? Maybe Firefox shouldn't rely on it's huge community and advertisement with Google? Afterall, this is also effecting Opera's chance of gaining market share.

So at the end of the day, Opera are just bitching because they cannot get any of the market share. There is heavy competition, and it's loosing badly. Firefox and Chrome are doing well by themselves. Opera will not be happy unless Microsoft actually has it installed as default on Windows.

They are only in this for themselves and no one else.

But when you plug in a iPod you don't need iTunes to access the iPod, iTunes is just another software you can download if you want it.

Unforunately, that's not true. iTunes installs the iPod drivers, at least, I needed to install iTunes so I could access my iPhone.

At the end of the day, those of you who still choose Internet Explorer can still use it now and come Windows 7 general availability - no problem! What's the big deal here? It's not like browser marketshare numbers will suddenly start tilting in favour of one or two browsers once Windows 7 is widely released.

That's the problem, if Opera has it they're way, Internet Explorer won't come with Windows at all. The ballot screen is a perfectly reasonable suggestion, and it's doing more than what Microsoft need to do.

Firefox and Chrome are doing well by themselves. And Apple has Safari installed as default on their operating systems. And Linux mostly has Firefox installed on their distros. So it's a pointless battle.

[noblecouncil]

WTHell?

From now on,

Opera=childish

Opera=stupid

FXXK OFF!! Opera

I hope Opera will disappear from our world soon........

[CuCumber]

Suggesting that they should "ditch their browser" is not only a stupid business decision, it would hurt many other businesses and so forth that rely on IE.

Isn't it a very stupid business decision to tie yourself to one company? Yet many have done that. Why do they have to rely on one browser, shouldn't there be standards which to rely on?

But with Microsoft, that doesn't happen. How is it a good thing, that I don't understand. Microsoft's actions only benefit Microsoft and due to its position, hurts all the others.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend_and_extinguish

a phrase that the U.S. Department of Justice found[3] was used internally by Microsoft[4] to describe its strategy for entering product categories involving widely used standards, extending those standards with proprietary capabilities, and then using those differences to disadvantage its competitors.

[Subject Delta]

EU already had Microsoft make it so WMP is not installed by default I think? Notepad, paint, and calculator are next. Oh yeah, and explorer.exe, third party file managers need a chance to compete too.

They offered N editions without WMP, but they never sold very well, nor have the N editions of Vista. The truth is people really just don't care

But when you plug in a iPod you don't need iTunes to access the iPod, iTunes is just another software you can download if you want it.

Not quiet. You can use the iPod as a storage device with basic Windows drivers, but due to apple's lockdown over the iPod database, you can only use iTunes to sync it

WTHell?

From now on,

Opera=childish

Opera=stupid

FXXK OFF!! Opera

I hope Opera will disappear from our world soon........

Wow, what a wonderfully mature outlook

[Wanderermy]

Opera, shove the O up your A-Hole

[Eice]

They offered N editions without WMP, but they never sold very well, nor have the N editions of Vista. The truth is people really just don't care

If people don't care, then why is Microsoft still forced to comply with such stupidity?

Oh wait, silly me. It's not about the people, it's about the EU/Opera.

[Timmah339]

opera just needs to shut the hell up. if their anti-competitive allegations against microsoft were true, then firefox wouldn't be so popular. Mozilla holds, what, ~30% of the browser market? they did it on their own, by creating good software, unlike opera.

[CarlosMiguel]

Opera is paranoid and insecure 'coz their browser SUCKS. I support down with opera movement!

[M_Lyons10]

When is Opera going to start going after Apple, or some other company?

When they finally come to the realization that they weren't failing because of Microsoft... They'll never accept that it's their fault, so they'll just redirect the blame to someone else...

We're failing because Firefox has a cute little fox icon and therefore has an advantage among people that like cute animals...

We're failing because Safari's gray user interface looks like iTunes and everyone likes that so they pick Safari...

We're failing because Google Chrome has "Google" in it and everyone thinks that they own the internet...

Etc., etc...

I'm getting so tired of hearing them whine. This is just so retarded... LOL It's laughable.

If people don't care, then why is Microsoft still forced to comply with such stupidity?

Oh wait, silly me. It's not about the people, it's about the EU/Opera.

More like it's about the EU and their love of money... ;)

[libertas83]

Isn't it a very stupid business decision to tie yourself to one company? Yet many have done that. Why do they have to rely on one browser, shouldn't there be standards which to rely on?

But with Microsoft, that doesn't happen. How is it a good thing, that I don't understand. Microsoft's actions only benefit Microsoft and due to its position, hurts all the others.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend_and_extinguish

a phrase that the U.S. Department of Justice found[3] was used internally by Microsoft[4] to describe its strategy for entering product categories involving widely used standards, extending those standards with proprietary capabilities, and then using those differences to disadvantage its competitors.

I don't think you understand the average consumer when it comes to computers. They simply do not care about the browser. They just want to get on the internet. To them, they don't want choice because its confusing to them. The only difference they will see with Firefox and IE is how it looks. Later, if they try both of them, they may notice how they perform. However, if they are currently happy with their first click on the internet, then they won't care.

The EU's choices hurts businesses. Retail software should not be forced to showcase competing browsers. OEMs should make that determination by the licensing deals (money) that are made. That allows OEMs to make some money and sell cheaper computers.

[d_ralphie]

opera just needs to shut the hell up. if their anti-competitive allegations against microsoft were true, then firefox wouldn't be so popular.

Allow Mozilla to explain how Firefox is proof that Microsoft broke the market:

"When the only real competition comes from a not for profit open source organization that depends on volunteers for almost half of its work product and nearly all of its marketing and distribution, while more than half a dozen other "traditional" browser vendors with better than I.E. products have had near-zero success encroaching on Microsoft I.E.'s dominance, there's a demonstrable tilt to the playing field. That tilt comes with the distribution channel - default status for the OS bundled Web browser."

When they finally come to the realization that they weren't failing because of Microsoft... They'll never accept that it's their fault, so they'll just redirect the blame to someone else...

Failing? How can a profitable company with record growth and a large pile of cash on their hands be considered a "failure"? A company is there to make money. Opera is not only making money, but the desktop user base doubled in less than 2 years, and desktop revenue has grown more than 100% several quarters in a row now.

Also, Opera is currently the #3 browser worldwide. In Europe it's bigger than Safari and Chrome combined, and closing up on 10% market share. In some countries Opera has 30-50% market share. Funny definition of "failure"...

I'm getting so tired of hearing them whine.

What "whining" exactly? All I'm seeing here is a bunch of people lacking even a basic understanding of the case whining because Microsoft has to face the consequences of its violations.

I also wonder why you people aren't whining about Mozilla's "whining". I guess it's only bad if Opera does it, eh?

Gotta love hypocrisy.