Mozilla execs want change to ballot screen proposal

[resol612]

However, Apple does not have a dominate share of the market. It's all about total marketshare. It's not about what one individual company does with their product. That's why monopoly laws apply to Intel and Microsoft and not AMD and Apple.

it is the sole seller of OSX - thus it is dominant in the OSX market.

the definition is such that you can always zoom in into particular submarkets...

[redfish]

However, Apple does not have a dominate share of the market. It's all about total marketshare. It's not about what one individual company does with their product. That's why monopoly laws apply to Intel and Microsoft and not AMD and Apple.

Anti-trust laws also don't require that a company not engage in market behavior that its competitors don't like. Effects on browser competitors from the company trying to compete on the OS market should not be considered abuses. They only require that a company doesn't participate in actions that have the sole purpose of destroying competition.

[petrossa]

?Yes, I admit to being wrong. Still, just as well, you disappoint me in the fact that you can easily be so foolish and close minded yourself.

Yes, he should have quit when he was ahead. Which was 18 pages ago. But it must be said,you other guys you're keep pushing his buttons.:laugh:: ?

[petrossa]

It shouldn't matter. If Microsoft is doing the same thing as its competition in the OS market, Apple, its being competitive, not anti-competitive. When a judge makes a ruling on anti-trust law, he has to make a judgment on whether the monopoly's behavior is in nature about simply keeping up with competitors or destroying competition. That's why if , for example, Ford had a near monopoly like Microsoft, it would probably not be considered anti-competitive for them to make their own car radios. Its also why its not considered anti-competitive that Microsoft includes Notepad in Windows. In the original US case about IE, Microsoft was only found guilty of abusive behavior because the judge was convinced by internal e-mails that the strategy to include IE was about destroying Netscape. However, the fact that every OS in existence now includes a browser should show people something else was going on.

Perhaps in an ideal world it shouldn't matter. But in this world, the real world, laws decide what's right and what's wrong. And according to those laws Microsoft is wrong and Apple is right.

Laws aren't meant to be fair. They are there to give a ?limit to what can be done.

Example: In the Netherlands it is forbidden to put household waste in a public waste disposal.

This old bloke walks down the road, sees an empty sandwichspread container, bends over, picks it up and puts it in the public wastedisposal unit. The cop watching him do it waited till he was done and fined him 35 euros. Was in all the newspapers, still he had to cough up.

[Growled Member]

it is the sole seller of OSX - thus it is dominant in the OSX market

You Apple haters really need to give it a rest. Yes, OS X does dominate the OS X market but the OS X market is only 4-5% worldwide. Windows is 88% worldwide. See the difference?

[ArKeYa]

It is astonishing to read that a lot of people in this thread still can't understand the concept of monopolistic anti-competitive practices. In such a case what kind of arguments can you expect from them.

/* facepalm */

And posts like... "opera did: whines, bad; firefox did: good, wins!"

/* double facepalm */

[d_ralphie]

A bit like IE8's support of HTML4 and CSS2.1 destroys your illusion of Microsoft being some sort of baby-molesting behemoth that supports nothing? You're hilarious. :rolleyes:

I never claimed that it "supports nothing". Stop trying to change the subject. Right now we are discussing your lies about me, and what you do is to lie mor? Amazing. Provide me with links that prove your claim, or apologize and retract your blatant lies.

You are calling Softpedia a Microsoft cheerleader? Jesus, your ignorance doesn't know any limits, does it?

No, I'm calling you that because you blindly accept claims from Microsoft and attack anyone who points out the fact that they are still just empty claims. Softpedia merely claims Microsoft as well, by the way. It's like linking to Microsoft's own announcement.

It's not trolling to have an opinion.

Just because you have an opinion doesn't mean that it's relevant to the discussion. And your opinion doesn't represent everyone else's. You are trolling because you are claiming that your "opinion" (which is nothing but hyperbolic flamebait) represents everyone else.

anything negative said about the company is simply "trolling"

No, trolling is trolling. If you prefer something else over Opera, that's one thing. But you go the extra step to troll, and claim that no one can possibly like Opera because it's so terrible. An obvious exaggeration that is nothing but trolling.

[d_ralphie]

Opera Turbo is really slow for me. And it doesn't support file downloads while it's on, not even a passthrough. (wtf!)

Works fine here. Too bad for you, though. Then again, you are probably just inventing stuff again.

Overall, I find them not so nice. I do have a friend who actually worked there at one time.

Opera has more than 600 employees. Overall, you "find them not so nice"? LOL. A friend who worked there? LOL. Stop making stuff up.

[d_ralphie]

It shouldn't matter.

But it does. And that's because if you are dominant, your actions have a huge impact on the market.

If Microsoft is doing the same thing as its competition in the OS market, Apple, its being competitive, not anti-competitive.

Wrong. Apple does not have a dominant position, while Microsoft does.

And getting beyond the law, to common sense, It's illogical to say it's not a problem if Apple does it but its a problem if Microsoft does it just because they have higher market share.

No it isn't. It is you who are making an illogical argument, and basically claiming that a dominant player's actions have the exact same consequences as someone with hardly any market share. That's just closing your eyes and ears and running around shouting LA-LA-LA-LA.

it is the sole seller of OSX - thus it is dominant in the OSX market.

And it has always been the sole seller of Mac OS X. There never was never an existing market of Mac OS Xes in the first place. Apple CREATED that market. Microsoft did not create the OS or browser market. Huge difference right there. And Apple's monopoly of its own products is completely different to a monopoly in the market.

the definition is such that you can always zoom in into particular submarkets...

No you can't. A monopoly over your own product is not the same as monopoly in the market place.

[Barney T. Administrators]

This thread has outlived its usefulness.

Thread closed