PS3 now officially a kick ass unit

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

anyone who bought a ps3 for ?300 last month lost

u could walk into hmv and come out with a ps3 with a game for ?270

Yes because they were shifting stock to make way for the PS3 Slim. Retail have very little chance of selling a fat PS3 when the Slim PS3 is on the shelf for the same price, and shelf space is the most important asset to them.

?270 was not RRP, it was retailers making their own prices.

It's a ?50 price cut.

[rkenshin]

......individual Bluray players beat it on Bluray playback.

What? The PS3 is still rated as the best Blu-Ray playback system out there in terms of price, quality, and features. Many stand-alone players don't offer many of the features that the PS3 does.

I personally don't like the new slim. I don't care for the design at all. The lower price point is nice. Thank you Sony for dropping $100 only 3 months after I bought my unit, when you told the community there wouldn't be any price cut in the future.

[deletedxyz]

Once the PS3 comes out with a few amazing action RPG exclusives like Mass Effect and Fable 2 for the Xbox 360, then will I only decide to shell ~$400 for games, movies and the PS3 slim.

[Belazor]

You are oversimplifying Natal for your argument. NATAL is years ahead of everything we've encountered so far. It has depth perception thanks to 2 cameras, it can also compensate for the parts of your body it cannot see and can also track multiple people in the room. Not only it has superior voice recognition by recognizing your emotion by different tones of voice so it can recognize different users it also has color distinguishing capability. It's nothing like Sony's Eye solution even though it might look like that at the first glance.

And maybe you're elevating it a bit too high. Sony has depth perception thanks to controllers, and it doesn't need to compensate for anything (pun intended).

Multiple people = multiple sticks, so that argument is sort of moot.

You don't know the first thing about Sony's upcoming voice recognition just as neither of us know how well Natal's will work in reality, so that's another moot point.

Until I see proof otherwise, I'll believe that Natal's two-camera setup is simply compensating for lack of tracking controller, so neither tech is "superior" unless you happen to have a personal preference for free-reign (Natal) or force feedback (Sony).

Unless you mean "superior" in the "hey we can do something cool that doesn't require tracking controllers", which leads back to the "personal preference" argument.

How is flailing around a controller in your hand more immersive than completely manipulating the game or interface with your body?

Force feedback, have you not been paying attention :p

Tell me something, if you IRL took a sword and hit something with it, would you or would you not get some form of force feedback from the sword to your brain?

Because unless you're an early model Terminator, you would.

Yes, Natal is some epic Minority Report meets Star Trek ****, but without force feedback you might as well just be Star Wars Kid :p

Also, you make it sound like you'd use anything besides your hands to flip through the game.

Edited August 21, 2009 by Belazor

[g~man]

Yes because they were shifting stock to make way for the PS3 Slim. Retail have very little chance of selling a fat PS3 when the Slim PS3 is on the shelf for the same price, and shelf space is the most important asset to them.

?270 was not RRP, it was retailers making their own prices.

It's a ?50 price cut.

its been 270 for aaaaaages

[Antaris Veteran]

Even so, thats the retailers decision, its not the RRP.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

its been 270 for aaaaaages

Define ages for me.

Anyway, as Antaris points out, that's the retailers decision. With an RRP of ?250 now, it means retailers can choose to undercut that again.

It's a ?50 price cut.

[Eddo89]

Just read the last page or so of responses but.....

Natal is cool and all, but I don't think is necessarily "cool" for gaming in the form we expect from games targeted to the more hardcore gamers. It is ultra cool in just flicking through menus or play games that is on a slower pace or have little influence from game environment.

I think for the one for Sony is going to be less of a novelty-only type thing due to the fact it seem to capture precision as opposed to capture the body.

And for all the talk of Natal, I want to see it in action. It certainly is the more innovative of the two, but I don't see it as a success.

[Antaris Veteran]

To be honest, I'm just not into motion-sensitive games. Think its one of the reasons I haven't bothered with a Wii, it just holds no interest for me.

[cabron]

I will not call $299 dollars an affordable price, but still the price is right for the type of machine you get.

[g~man]

And maybe you're elevating it a bit too high. Sony has depth perception thanks to controllers, and it doesn't need to compensate for anything (pun intended).

Multiple people = multiple sticks, so that argument is sort of moot.

You don't know the first thing about Sony's upcoming voice recognition just as neither of us know how well Natal's will work in reality, so that's another moot point.

Until I see proof otherwise, I'll believe that Natal's two-camera setup is simply compensating for lack of tracking controller, so neither tech is "superior" unless you happen to have a personal preference for free-reign (Natal) or force feedback (Sony).

Unless you mean "superior" in the "hey we can do something cool that doesn't require tracking controllers", which leads back to the "personal preference" argument.

Force feedback, have you not been paying attention :p

Tell me something, if you IRL took a sword and hit something with it, would you or would you not get some form of force feedback from the sword to your brain?

Because unless you're an early model Terminator, you would.

Yes, Natal is some epic Minority Report meets Star Trek ****, but without force feedback you might as well just be Star Wars Kid :p

Also, you make it sound like you'd use anything besides your hands to flip through the game.

force feedback? does the sony remote hover in the air or something? im interested in this new technology

"The depth sensor consists of an infrared projector combined with a monochrome CMOS sensor, and allows the Project Natal sensor to see in 3D under any ambient light conditions. The sensing range of the depth sensor is adjustable, with the Project Natal software capable of automatically calibrating the sensor based on gameplay and the player's physical environment, such as the presence of couches".

but let me just reinstate what i mentioned earlier in this thread. microsoft has a motion controller device coming that will work with natal, this will do EXACTLY what the ps3 motion controller does... but in conjunction with that it has FULL BODY MOTION capabilities

if microsoft wanted to go the ps3 route they could simply make a motion controller for their usb camera which they have now... same as ps3's but no voice capabilities (would have to wear headset)

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

force feedback? does the sony remote hover in the air or something? im interested in this new technology

"The depth sensor consists of an infrared projector combined with a monochrome CMOS sensor, and allows the Project Natal sensor to see in 3D under any ambient light conditions. The sensing range of the depth sensor is adjustable, with the Project Natal software capable of automatically calibrating the sensor based on gameplay and the player's physical environment, such as the presence of couches".

but let me just reinstate what i mentioned earlier in this thread. microsoft has a motion controller device coming that will work with natal, this will do EXACTLY what the ps3 motion controller does... but in conjunction with that it has FULL BODY MOTION capabilities

if microsoft wanted to go the ps3 route they could simply make a motion controller for their usb camera which they have now... same as ps3's but no voice capabilities (would have to wear headset)

Force feedback is in this case, but not limited to

a) Rumble

b) Pressing actual buttons/holding something physical

c) Context sensitive buttons

[g~man]

Force feedback is in this case, but not limited to

a) Rumble

b) Pressing actual buttons/holding something physical

c) Context sensitive buttons

so basically, something like the wii remote with rumble?

this is a necessity imo for games such as fps or a sword game

however, what natal by itself (no motion controller) will be good for is full body motion games like wii fit, fight night (this would be awesome) or simply moving your avatar around on the dashboard

[Spyder Veteran]

Thanks Boz, I've been looking for that confirmation that they did indeed upgrade the HDMI chip to allow bitstreaming. I was going to pick up the Slim anyway, but this is pure cream on top.

sweet :D dont forget to add me when you get it - Malechai78 :)

[Green_Eye]

Well.. I'm really happy with Sony and the new PS3.

Officially PS3 slim will have bitstreaming capability to your AV Reciever. For those who don't know what this means I'll explain. This means that PS3 now has passthrough capability for HD audio from Blu-ray discs. This is huge because now if you have a higher end AVR unit, PS3 will pass the HD signal untouched and let your AVR decode and you will see the TrueHD, DTS-MA etc light up on your receiver.

Now with great HD audio and video capabilities with streaming and PS3 Media Server, Blu-ray player and direct bitstreaming the PS3 has become truly a great machine at an affordable $299.

Unless Microsoft drop the price on their Xbox 360 models in a significant amount PS3 might be gaining ground in a much more positive light due to these things.

I have a 60gb version and I think that I'll finally get a slim PS3 to replace my stuff in home theater. With PlayOn, PS3 Media Server, Windows Media Center connectivity and Blu-ray at a new price is really admirable machine.

Sony has finally woke up and given us great price and added much needed features like bitstreaming. I have no need for any other Blu-ray player now.

Great stuff.

More about bitstreaming capability:

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=a...%3Fref%3Dhl_rss

After reading this I looked outside and was not surprised to see the following :p

[Joel]

sweet :D dont forget to add me when you get it - Malechai78 :)

(Y)

[vip]

http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/08/21/ps3-s...-audio-at-last/

I am glad that the Slim will be having this feature, my home theater system is going to rock with this. I posted this as a follow up to your link. :p

Just something I noticed, but shouldn't your signature read Getting Slimmer? I'm assuming you're talking about the new PS3, that's why I asked ... either that or you're playing Ghost busters, and you've lost Slimer.

[sn00pie]

Boz likes Sony. The heavens are turning :p

Slim looks awesome, it makes me want to get rid of my chunky Ps3 too. I've heard that the BD drive in the new Slim is much cheaper though? aka not as good?

[HawkMan]

Force feedback is in this case, but not limited to

a) Rumble

b) Pressing actual buttons/holding something physical

c) Context sensitive buttons

Of course Natal can be played with a controller as well, using natal and it's high precision to register other motions like head tracking.

sure the EyeToy can do this already, but without depth perception and really crappy low light condition performance. Would I trust head trackign to a device that cannot even properly track simple card glyphs in non perfect light conditions(this is why the PS3 motion controller sphere have light inside, it's so the camera can easily see them since the size of the sphere is used to calculate distance). On top of that, Natal has all the processing built in, so it doesn't tax the 360 at all, it simply sends it control instructions like a controller, though more detailed depending on game. And it has far superior low light performance due to the IR stuff.

Natal and the PS3 thing does exacly the same, with natal having at LEAS the same resolution of motion detection, probably better due to better low lioght performance and dual cameras. and it can detect distance of anything, not just the magic wand spheres. Natal is what the PS3 motion controler wants to be when it grows up.

They can do mostly the same things, only one of them don't need physical controllers, but CAN use them.

oh and also, Rumble is not force feedback. Something PS2 owners where quite happy to tell you all about back in the PS2/Xbox1 days when the original xbox only supported rumble in wheels and not force feedback.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Of course Natal can be played with a controller as well, using natal and it's high precision to register other motions like head tracking.

sure the EyeToy can do this already, but without depth perception and really crappy low light condition performance. Would I trust head trackign to a device that cannot even properly track simple card glyphs in non perfect light conditions(this is why the PS3 motion controller sphere have light inside, it's so the camera can easily see them since the size of the sphere is used to calculate distance). On top of that, Natal has all the processing built in, so it doesn't tax the 360 at all, it simply sends it control instructions like a controller, though more detailed depending on game. And it has far superior low light performance due to the IR stuff.

Natal and the PS3 thing does exacly the same, with natal having at LEAS the same resolution of motion detection, probably better due to better low lioght performance and dual cameras. and it can detect distance of anything, not just the magic wand spheres. Natal is what the PS3 motion controler wants to be when it grows up.

They can do mostly the same things, only one of them don't need physical controllers, but CAN use them.

oh and also, Rumble is not force feedback. Something PS2 owners where quite happy to tell you all about back in the PS2/Xbox1 days when the original xbox only supported rumble in wheels and not force feedback.

Without depth perception?

By that do you mean being able to walk around in a 3D space? Because it does that just fine, that's what the wand allows the PS3Eye to do.

[MistaT40]

I still like my chunky PS3 - it's the original but yeah the slim looks great with this "new" ability. Whatever the case, I've always stuck with them since PS1 and let's hope this increase it's base and more exciting things to come. Down the road perhaps I'll get another one just for the Blu-Ray.

[HawkMan]

Without depth perception?

By that do you mean being able to walk around in a 3D space? Because it does that just fine, that's what the wand allows the PS3Eye to do.

as usual you're picking out single parts of posts instead of reading the whole thing.

I specifically mentioned they needed the wand to do depth perception. Though that's not actually depth perception in the unit, it just happens to know the distance the wand is form the camera because it knows the size of the golfball in top of it.

you know, unlike Natal's stereo cameras that actually has depth perception and know how far everything is from the camera, from you individual fingers to your toes, at the same time. not just the magic wand you have in your hand. However if you where to hold a PS3 want in your hands near Natal, it would also know how far that is from the camera, without knowing the size of the golfball on top of it :p

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

as usual you're picking out single parts of posts instead of reading the whole thing.

I specifically mentioned they needed the wand to do depth perception. Though that's not actually depth perception in the unit, it just happens to know the distance the wand is form the camera because it knows the size of the golfball in top of it.

you know, unlike Natal's stereo cameras that actually has depth perception and know how far everything is from the camera, from you individual fingers to your toes, at the same time. not just the magic wand you have in your hand. However if you where to hold a PS3 want in your hands near Natal, it would also know how far that is from the camera, without knowing the size of the golfball on top of it :p

You really need to see more of the natal technology to be able to say it can be as precise as the PS3 wand at depth perception. Sony's E3 demo/GC demo specifically showed someone interacting with objects on a table, and moving around a room in 3D. Natal was more about Milo and showing off more motion gesture based concepts with no controller, than walking around in a room or picking up 3D objects in a room.

Hence why all these arguments about what's doing what better in 2009, the year before the technology is even showcased is quite far ahead of ourselves.

I personally doubt Natal can be as precise as it has to take the time to analyse the environment and recognize the object/person, where as the PSEye will know where the wand is instantly at all times. However what do I know, I'll wait and see.

[HawkMan]

Again they do the exact same thing, the PS3 doesn't instantly know where the wand is, it has to do the same analysis as Natal, only with less ifnormation provided and some hard coded information, like the size of the ball.

you just need to understand the technology behind it to know they will at the very least have the same resolution. with Natal probably having more precision actually since it has more data, better (dual) data so it has actual depth on every bone that's defined in the simulation currently running, and it has a camera with better low light performance combined with IR lights to work even in almost complete darkness.

As long as you're playing silly jumping around the room games , the wands are ok. but as soon as you move into more esoteric things like face recognition and head tracking, then the PS3 eye falls completely off the wagon compared to Natal. Unless you place the camera on the living room table right in front of you, and place a hot spot light right in your face.

[thefonz]

Important point: There are no GOOD games on the PS3 to justify the price as the thing is, above all else a games machine. the 360 in terms of total gaming needs and sheer variety, kicks the ps3 out the water.