Should Turkey be allowed to join the EU?

[petrossa]

I don't think that's the major reason EU rejects Turkey. To put it simply, if EU proposed that they would allow Turkey to join but get a smaller share on the parliament, I don't think that would be a huge issue. They are also actively defending that free circulation (idk if that's the right term or not) should not be given to Turkey even if they are taken as a member one day.

No you are right; It's not THE reason. But it does add up. The AKP is way to fundamentalist islamitic in the view of most EU countries. Germany suffers greatly from turkish islamic disturbances, so does the Netherlands. France has already a huge islamic population they really don't want anymore. UK the same.

Also there's great fear Turkey will be a portal for more middle eastern immigration, and that comes at the time that all political parties with a less favorite view of islam gained enormously in votes.

The latest election round in the EU the left (pro-islam) parties got wiped out. In the Netherlands the once biggest socialist party saw it's popularity not just dwindel, but completely disappear whilst at the same time a party with a very strong negative stance towards islam grew as enormously to the cost of ALL other parties.

All in all, the Europeans have had it completely with islamic fundamentalists.

[petrossa]

Recently Turkish PM Erodgan canceled a joint military exercise with Israel, to show Turkey's support of Palestine. His next move was to tell the people of Turkey to have more children.

"The more our population increases, the more we will be powerful," Aksam newspaper quoted Erdogan as saying.

http://islaminaction08.blogspot.com/2009/1...-have-more.html

Mmmm, what does he need that power for? Can't be because he has a religious agenda, Turkey is secular :innocent:

[Ci7]

Recently Turkish PM Erodgan canceled a joint military exercise with Israel, to show Turkey's support of Palestine. His next move was to tell the people of Turkey to have more children.

"The more our population increases, the more we will be powerful," Aksam newspaper quoted Erdogan as saying.

http://islaminaction08.blogspot.com/2009/1...-have-more.html

Mmmm, what does he need that power for? Can't be because he has a religious agenda, Turkey is secular :innocent:

to nuke isreal and wipe it out instead of Iran lool :p

[petrossa]

to nuke isreal and wipe it out instead of Iran lool :p

Iran is not going to have nukes. One way or the other.

bit off topic: http://www2.debka.com/headline.php?hid=6314

Russia halts TOR-M1, S-300 air, missile defense missiles to Iran

The IRGC commander was trying to lift plunging morale in his corps and the Iranian military; both know that denied the top-quality Russian air defense missiles, Iran has no shield against an American or Israeli missile or air attack.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/985895.html

Is an attack on Iran a big risk?

Nevertheless, what would be deemed a success?

If the attack does destroy the nuclear facilities, and it leads to a broad consensus in Iran that nuclear weapons are dangerous for the future of the regime or the nation. In other words, success or failure is determined by the political result of the military attack. The primary objective of the military option has to be to convince Iran to cease its nuclear program, that it's not worthwhile to continue. Destroying the nuclear facilities is not an end in and of itself; it is merely a means to an end. And therefore it is necessary to create the political conditions that will increase the chances for the success of the attack.

[petrossa]

More proof that Turkey is the in the Middle East, not in Europe:

http://www2.debka.com/article.php?aid=1408

Turkish-Syrian strategic cooperation

Tuesday, Oct.13, Syrian defense minister Gen. Ali Habib made the triumphant announcement: We held our first joint land military exercise (with Turkey) last spring. And today we have agreed to do a more comprehensive, a bigger one. He spoke at a ceremony declaring a free trade zone between the two countries and opening their borders for the passage of their citizens without visas. Present were the two foreign ministers, Ahmed Davutoglu and Walid Mualem.

[Serulean]

Replying the original topic question, it would be ace is Turkey joined the EU before next Sepetember since it means I'd be able to use my left over Euros on my Holiday next year. :laugh:

[Panacik]

Replying the original topic question, it would be ace is Turkey joined the EU before next Sepetember since it means I'd be able to use my left over Euros on my Holiday next year. :laugh:

Joining the EU does not mean your country instantly uses the Euro...

[include]

meh...it has nothing to do with the EU Parliament, the Euro, the Armenian genocide or any other nonsense you migh cook up.

Simply put, they won't let them in because they're Muslims. See, I've actually been to Turkey - a lot - in the past two years. I've seen every major city, east to west, from Van to Edirne. I've been to Istanbul three times. And one thing is for certain: there is nothing wrong with Turkey. In fact, western Turkey - Anatolia - is about as secular as Canada. And their economic and crime stats are in line with Romania and Bulgaria.

At any rate, Turks couldn't give a flying **** anymore about the EU; it's become a cumbersome, ineficient bureaucracy crumbling under its own adminstrative weight. I'll have a huge smile on my face when it collapses as Turkey watches on.

No it has no place in EU.

Oh yeah, who needs Turkey when you have the glorious nation of Lithuania on your side...psht, get me a barf bag.

[include]

Because Turkey has no democracy. The military rules there and controls the goverment. Because Turkey has taken half Cyprus. Because Turkey wants to take some islands from Greece. Because Turkey has slaughtered millions of Armenians.

DO YOU WANT MORE REASONS? READ A BIT OF HISTORY!

They are uncivilized, with no intentions of living in freedom and peace. They want blood and they also want to take over Europe.

I live in Germany and I See them every day here. They don't integrate, they don't respect anyone, they don't accept other religions and they are dirty and barbarians. I am sorry for the few Turks that are not like that. I am sure there are a few but the majority is as I described.

PS: Istanbul's real Name is Constantinople and it was GREEK. Learn HISTORY

Turkey has only one goal: To destroy Europe's culture

How do you dare to think like that? Think again! Read a bit before you say the things you say. I have met so many Turks that I can have an opinion about them and I will never ever accept them as long as they remain the way they are...

What a load of garbage.

You're talking about history and you're from Germany? Are you honestly being serious? Do you want me to rolll out Germany's history and compare it to that of Turkey?!

Don't get me wrong here, I have nothing but respect for Germany (one of the most industrious nations on Earth), but to make the case that somehow Turkey's history should prevent it from joining the EU while forgetting that your country comitted one of the most dispciable massacres in human history is more than I could stomach.

Turkey is a democracy; by second-world standards, by Middle-East standards, and certainly by Islamic country standards.

And Yes, Istanbul was Greek...So what? Jeruslam was, long ago Jewish, but was destroyed by the Romans. Since then, it was populated by Arabs. I can't say then that it belongs to the Jews...it's certainly unfair by historical standards.

And I honestly can't believe you're actually whining about that name change. Are you saying Turkey belongs to Greece then?! What about Alexandria - still belong to the Greeks as well?

Oh and hey, while we're still talking about history, why not bring up Troy. That was a massacre, wasn't it? Wasn't it the Greeks who used war to steal lands to expand their empire? Does that make them any more moral than the other military powers at the time (or in subsequent times)?

And as for your claim that Turks are about to destory your country, what the hell?! What's wrong with Europeans? Ever been to Canada? We have so many immigrants here, the country's like one big UN conference...and everyone here lives in peace. Really, when you think about it, it's hateful people such as yourself who want the blood and war, not them.

[petrossa]

And as for your claim that Turks are about to destory your country, what the hell?! What's wrong with Europeans? Ever been to Canada? We have so many immigrants here, the country's like one big UN conference...and everyone here lives in peace. Really, when you think about it, it's hateful people such as yourself who want the blood and war, not them.

Petvas has a personal grudge that's part of the standard greek/turk feud, and not really an argument why Turkey shouldn't join the EU.

That the Turks don't belong in Europe is very well explained in my earlier posts. If you are really serious respond to those with founded counterarguments instead of saying you met some nice turks in Istanbul.

Btw: Turkey is geographically and culturally part of the Middle East, not Europe. http://countrystudies.us/turkey/88.htm

[Glowstick]

And as for your claim that Turks are about to destory your country, what the hell?! What's wrong with Europeans? Ever been to Canada? We have so many immigrants here, the country's like one big UN conference...and everyone here lives in peace. Really, when you think about it, it's hateful people such as yourself who want the blood and war, not them.

One thing you should understand is that getting from the Middle East to Canada is a way bigger effort than getting to Europe. That effort is financially (need to pay for air fare) as well interlectually (your country doesn't accomodate these people by hanging turkish and arabic signs up in Walmart and such). As such, you get better quality immigrants than we do.

[petrossa]

Well this gives some relief:

http://ec.europa.eu/enlargement/pdf/key_do...ort_2009_en.pdf

Turkey is a long way off from joining.

Phew. Close one.

[AllMac]

I hope they join the EU, just to see everyone who voted NO get slapped in the face.

[petrossa]

I hope they join the EU, just to see everyone who voted NO get slapped in the face.

As reasons for joining go, that's not the best i've heard yet?:pp

[petrossa]

I guess Turkey already put itself out of the running. Who wants that in Europe?

“Iran has always been a key actor in regional peace and stability because of what it has done and what it will not do. It is important to cooperate in counter-terrorism and specifically intelligence sharing,” Erdoğan said in calling for solidarity among Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran to deal with terrorism.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=t...lume-2009-10-29

[petrossa]

Turkey has a bad human rights report. The state in Turkey fails to provide sufficient guarantees for fundamental rights and freedoms. Those who say “Democracy makes progress in Turkey” should see concrete evidence. Human rights are the essence of democracy. It is impossible to say that a state violating individual rights, failing to protect individual rights makes progress in democracy. Human rights are needed not for impressing foreign investors but for sustainability of descent life for people living in Turkey.

SOURCE

[xtrabit racing]

I am a Turk university student and IMHO, Turkey is not ready to join tu EU this time, maybe in future. (Maybe after EU collapsed :) )

[petrossa]

I am a Turk university student and IMHO, Turkey is not ready to join tu EU this time, maybe in future. (Maybe after EU collapsed :) )

It's funny. Lot's of 'europeans' want to get out, the french and dutch voted NO against the european constitution. They got ti anyxway because Europe is not a democracy.

Why would any sane nation consider to give up it's identity to join the USE is beyond me.

Once it was a good thing. The common market sure did good. But now it goes beyond that and is now since Klaus signed offically a federation.

National laws are now second to European laws except in those few countries smart enough to demand an opt-out.

Be glad my friend that Turkey isn't ready.

[Creamy]

Yeah....I really don't think they're ready to join the EU (yet). Corruption, womens rights, freedom of the press and a president who speaks to the turks living in germany saying that they should not integrate too much...:s

[xtrabit racing]

A caricaturist, Musa Kart, drawed Recep Tayyip Erdoğan like a cat, and Erdoğan sued him. (5000 TL)

as a response, famous comics magazine, Penguen drawed this. Erdoğan sued again them. (40000TL= 8 caricatur*5000. They forgot to count upper penguin head :) )

[petrossa]

A caricaturist, Musa Kart, drawed Recep Tayyip Erdoğan like a cat, and Erdoğan sued him. (5000 TL)

as a response, famous comics magazine, Penguen drawed this. Erdoğan sued again them. (40000TL= 8 caricatur*5000. They forgot to count upper penguin head :) )

Fun. Did he win??:pp

[xtrabit racing]

Tayyip Erdoğan won all the lawsuits, caricaturists paid the money, this is the free speech in Turkey

[petrossa]

Tayyip Erdoğan won all the lawsuits, caricaturists paid the money, this is the free speech in Turkey

Free speech in holland:

Last week's arrest of Dutch cartoonist Gregorius Nekshot (not his real name) was an absurd, scary episode that casts a depressing light on the freedoms that formerly characterized the Netherlands.

Nekshot's home was raided by a team of ten police officers who had been dispatched by the Openbaar Ministerie, the federal Dutch DA's office that works in conjunction with the Netherlands Justice Department. The cops confiscated Nekschot's computer, his sketchbooks, and other materials, then took him to a detention facility where he spent 30 hours in a concrete cell before being released without charges — but after he had been made to promise to remove eight cartoons from his website. The drawings had been the subject of a three-year-old complaint by radical Dutch muslim Abdul Jabbar van de Ven and the lefty "anti-discrimination" organizations that basically seek to censor everything that doesn't jibe with the country's official rainbow-worshiping, we-are-the-world ethos. They claim Nekshot's art incites hatred and violence.

http://www.bakelblog.com/nobodys_business/...rius-neksc.html

The guy is still waiting anxiously for his trial today.

Not that much difference?:xx

[petrossa]

Problem solved

While it's still too early to write Turkey out of NATO, in the not so distant future, the alliance will reach a decision point. In 2014, NATO's next generation fighter plane, the Joint Strike Fighter, will be delivered. Given the direction of Turkish politics, serious questions must be asked about whether the Islamist government in Ankara can be trusted with the highly advanced technology.

It's time that NATO start thinking about a worst case scenario in Turkey. For even if the increasingly Islamist state remains a NATO partner, at best, it seems Turkey will be an unreliable partner. Since the 1930s, the country has been a model of modernization and moderation in the Middle East. But absent a remarkable turnaround, it would appear that the West is losing Turkey. Should this occur, it would constitute the most dramatic development in the region since the 1979 Islamic Revolution in Iran.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405...0622936876.html

[MulletRobZ]

No. It's not even part of Europe! (except for that small piece of land west of Istanbul)