Starting Windows 8

[red77stars]

Windows 8 will focus mostly on hardware i think. There is so much to be done on software level to catch with todays hardware.

Windows 7 is excellent base for Windows 8.

[+Nik Louch Subscriber²]

One problem with a complete re-write... We start from scratch, you'd get a massive percentage more errors and bugs than you would with a new release of the same OS.

[hdood]

There will be a re-write at some point. MS is working with other vendors within the TC group. It's still a research group, but promises radical changes.

What does the trusted computing platform have to do with a brand new OS, especially considering that it's not just a "research group" and that the technology they promote (TPM) has been shipping for years and is supported by Windows? Am I missing something?

[Redestium]

Going forward I see Windows keeping and refining their rich local experience while moving more into cloud based services (Azure, Mesh) and where the Internet is headed--but not a rewrite.

[Iian K]

While building an Operating System from scratch has its benefits, it takea a long time to start over, even if your basing it off some code from the original. Having experience, it isn't as easy as it looks. Microsoft has come a long way, and to change that would not only be a difficult process, but a long process as well.

If I am thinking the way you all are saying it should happen, it would take at minimum 1 and a half years to get the basics, and additional time to get all the features and frameworks done.

[neocontrol]

I believe that windows should really reconsider its hardware interactivity i.e. Its KERNEL and all that stuff ....

and i am of the opinion that microsoft has enough funds to start a very new project starting with nothing and coming up with a fully stable, user friendly....or to be precise "user customizable".... new OS on a new platform...windows people need to understand what an end user desires and how the interface should be....

these people should grasp all the good things wich users like about all the operating systems..like MAC,etc...and make a new one with all newbies......

wat say ???

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

...

GDI+ is a software library that offers certain software-based features that sit on top of GDI and a few other APIs. This is entirely different from D2D which is Direct3D.

I don't see what that has to do with how much use it's going to get.

Direct2D can run in software or in hardware (and even in software mode is faster than GDI+), you can create a native Direct2D context for a control or interoperate it with GDI (create a Direct2D surface based off the GDI surface or create a GDI surface off of a Direct2D surface)

Rewriting all their GUI code to use Direct2D underneath and then expose the same GDI based API it currently does (otherwise you risk breaking every single app that uses those API's) won't achieve anything, but it would take a lot of time.

[abecedarian paradoxious]

And NT3.5 was based on?

(NT 3.1 maybe?)

And before that DEC VMS and OS/2 ;)

edit- sorry, didn't realize that was addressed on page 5. :(

Edited September 30, 2009 by Regression_88

[Glowstick]

I believe that windows should really reconsider its hardware interactivity i.e. Its KERNEL and all that stuff ....

The kernel's fine. The userland ain't.

Also, nothing stops Microsoft from building a new userland and run it side by side, until it can consider dropping the old Win32 ****. After all, that's one of the uses of this whole subsystem **** the system comes with.

[hdood]

Rewriting all their GUI code to use Direct2D underneath and then expose the same GDI based API it currently does (otherwise you risk breaking every single app that uses those API's) won't achieve anything, but it would take a lot of time.

You misunderstand. The idea is not to "rewrite it" to use Direct2D. Rewriting any part of Windows is a dumb idea. The idea is to create a new modern GUI framework that is all D2D. No expensive interop.

The kernel's fine. The userland ain't.

Also, nothing stops Microsoft from building a new userland and run it side by side, until it can consider dropping the old Win32 ****. After all, that's one of the uses of this whole subsystem **** the system comes with.

NT can't actually run without the Windows subsystem though. Technically most of Win32 doesn't even run as a subsystem anymore. Having said that, I completely agree. People have this obsession with "the kernel" when most of Windows' problems have nothing to do with it.

[mdtaUK]

Start from Singularity, the managed code OS, andbuild it out to become Windows 8, also have a virtual legacy system for running old apps which have not been built in new Win8 Managed code APIs

[+Majesticmerc MVC]

One problem with a complete re-write... We start from scratch, you'd get a massive percentage more errors and bugs than you would with a new release of the same OS.

Precisely. A complete re-write is completely unfeasible. Joel Spolsky said it best...

The idea that new code is better than old is patently absurd. Old code has been used. It has been tested. Lots of bugs have been found, and they've been fixed. There's nothing wrong with it. It doesn't acquire bugs just by sitting around on your hard drive. Au contraire, baby! Is software supposed to be like an old Dodge Dart, that rusts just sitting in the garage? Is software like a teddy bear that's kind of gross if it's not made out of all new material?

...

When you throw away code and start from scratch, you are throwing away all that knowledge. All those collected bug fixes. Years of programming work.

You are throwing away your market leadership. You are giving a gift of two or three years to your competitors, and believe me, that is a long time in software years.

The article I quote is a fantastic article about why restarting from scratch is completely moronic from both a financial and strategic perspective, you can read the whole thing HERE.

[mikee286]

Isn't ms working on a new os Midori?? I haven't heard much about it lately so I wonder if they are still developing it

[DrunkenMaster]

$ tar -zxpf /mnt/cdrom/OSX10.7 Windows8.tar.gz; cp Windows8.tar.gz /mnt/shares/Windows/users/Steve Ballmer

From [email protected]

To [email protected]

Attachment: Windows8.tar.gz

Here is a fresh start for Windows 8.

Steve

_________

I'm purely kidding here, but it will be interesting to see if there is some feature creep from 10.7 into Windows 8.

I do like how Apple has the drag and drop containers for Applications in the App folder. It makes some of the system management easier and cleaner even for 'advanced users'. It would be nice to see this and some backing away from the registry.

I've tried 7 and its very nice. The GUI takes some getting used to. So if there is anything that I'd want back in Windows, it would be different GUI options for simple to more advanced use, an easier scripting option (e.g. Automator in OS X) and more default command line apps for backups, CVS type repository. In other words a bit more Unix-y options in Windows 8.

[MikeChipshop Member]

IMO there will never be a rewrite of the Windows OS, the current code will continue evolving as it has always done, it will be cleaned modulized and improved but ultimately will be based off of previous code.

Secondly, I'm not from Britain, I'm from America, where we aren't scared to death of the letter Z.

Yeah, i'm British and i haven't slept for weeks because of those damn Z's :rolleyes:

[omar8]

I hope Microsoft sort out a couple things by Windows 8. Firstly, there isn't a need for a total rewrite, I would assume that the code is probably very good.

It would be pretty sweet if Microsoft removes the registry and implements an application install system similar to OS X. Although I guess this would break compatibility, may be add a new middle layer for older programs - like a virtual registry.

Also, I hope Microsoft carries on the trend set with Vista and 7 of making Windows a more modular system. Just read: http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009...lims-down.ars/2

It is about time Microsoft made the switch to NT for Windows CE.

To be honest though, I just hope Microsoft makes Windows 8 even faster, more usable and more secure. These are the things that matter, Microsoft's aim is to make a easy to use operating system not design an architecturally perfect OS that a small number of users will appreciate.

[hdood]

It would be pretty sweet if Microsoft removes the registry

Why? What would you replace it with? Tens of thousands of text files? How would that be "pretty sweet?" It sounds more like a reliability nightmare and performance killer.

The only thing the registry can be replaced with is another database, and then you've just gone and recreated the registry. What I think you really want is for third-party applications to store their private configuration data in the application folder instead of the registry. That's fine, but that has nothing to do with the registry itself (which is primarily used to store operating system data, and is just a neutral database).

Maybe your complaint is also that the OS data stored in the registry is confusing (because it's not designed to be edited by hand), but this wouldn't change if you switched to another storage medium, since the OS would still have to store the exact same data.

It is about time Microsoft made the switch to NT for Windows CE.

A little re-factoring doesn't make NT appropriate for the kind of hardware CE is designed for.

[thertrain]

I hope Microsoft just continues what they are doing. Windows 7 is honestly a great OS. I'm a Mac user but run Windows on my work PC. My new Laptop came with 7 and I am very impressed.

[CrazyK]

Microsoft do not need to rewrite..

Since XP the Windows OS has been reliable. I have not moved on from XP as I have no real incentive and for MS that must be an issue. I'm a long term and experienced computer user. Vista offered me minor improvement at the cost usability, 7 corrected this but offered no more incentive.

Microsoft has done a lot for the casual PC user, but what about the experienced user who wants more from their PC? I love the detail, I love the settings and the code extensions that add that extra feature that goes over the head of the day to day user but makes my system do what I need. With each new release of Windows I see small features that appealed to me disappear and nothing to replace them. My hope is that Windows 8 offers more control over Windows Explorer and all the files I have. Over the last 15 years Ive built up a large database of files and preferences as to how i use my PC, it is my hope that in the future Microsoft recognise this in the operating system they offer to the average user who has had been happily using their operating system now for about 15 years.

[Ci7]

7 corrected this but offered no more incentive.

oh please!

i don't think the world agree with you!

[KeeperOfThePizza]

I hope they get rid of Aero Glass in Windows 8.... unlikely... but I wish.

[pezzonovante]

I hope they get rid of Aero Glass in Windows 8.... unlikely... but I wish.

I absolutely love the Aero UI. This is the one thing I hope remains unchanged in Windows 8.

[phot0nic]

I hope they get rid of Aero Glass in Windows 8.... unlikely... but I wish.

Why? I've heard some people complain before, but I don't get it. Aero Glass is pretty simple and clean. It's not minimalistic, no, but it's certainly not cluttered. However, minimalistic visual styles wouldn't be best for the casual user, so it's best to let the advanced users download and apply it themselves. Additionally, you have a fair amount of control over widths, sizes, colors, transparency, etc. If it's the 'glass' thing that bothers you, you can just turn off the transparency. What aspect(s) do you wish they would change?

[AltecXP]

urely kidding here, but it will be interesting to see if there is some feature creep from 10.7 into Windows 8.

I do like how Apple has the drag and drop containers for Applications in the App folder. It makes some of the system management easier and cleaner even for 'advanced users'. It would be nice to see this and some backing away from the registry.

Windows DOES support that, World of warcraft for example works that way. It's just that not many write their programs to work that way.

[KeeperOfThePizza]

Why? I've heard some people complain before, but I don't get it. Aero Glass is pretty simple and clean. It's not minimalistic, no, but it's certainly not cluttered. However, minimalistic visual styles wouldn't be best for the casual user, so it's best to let the advanced users download and apply it themselves. Additionally, you have a fair amount of control over widths, sizes, colors, transparency, etc. If it's the 'glass' thing that bothers you, you can just turn off the transparency. What aspect(s) do you wish they would change?

1. Too much glass.

2. Basic, are you kidding me? it's ugly, even with Aero still enabled and Transparency off.

3. Windows Classic? horrible. Looked better in XP, it's now officially destroyed.

I love Windows 7, it's great.. I like the Superbar but they need some Graphic Changes.

This doesn't look nice by any means.