Starting Windows 8

[hdood]

So why does it slows down?

You keep claiming that the registry slows down without providing any evidence for it. I have no idea what answer you are looking for.

As I said, there are still programs that don't support it. One of this is also Visual Studio which doesn't support installing DLLs without administration rights.

What? Obviously you can't install shared system-wide components without administrator rights.

Obviously there are some, otherwise older programs wouldn't run.

I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. New and old programs mostly use the same APIs. There have been some minor additions and changes here and there, but not in a way that let's you remove anything without breaking modern software.

[azure.sapphire]

I don't know about anyone else but I never had any problems running applications when I used XP.The only time I ever had a problems was when I switched from XP to Vista.

I had all kinds of issues with XP back when it was still in beta. The early days of XP was ify as well. There were driver issues, stability issues... though neither was really Microsoft's fault. It was more issues with application developers believing they should have free reign of the system. It got significantly better even before SP2. With SP2 came a list of modifications to make XP more secure. A number of reasonable issues were addressed in XP sp3 as well.

As for Vista, I really never had any issues. It was rather resource intensive on light hardware, and there were minor issues (network copying), but again, it was mostly third party vendor issues with poor drivers and application design. I think it took a while for them to catch up. They have with Win7. Microsoft also did its part by improving the overall look and feel Vista with Win7. Less services, incremental start ups (elect).

[TechFreak:)]

You keep claiming that the registry slows down without providing any evidence for it. I have no idea what answer you are looking for.

People say that the registry causes system to slow down. So if you say that registry is not the cause, then what is?

What? Obviously you can't install shared system-wide components without administrator rights.

Visual Studio is used for application developing, why would I need to install system-wide components? I need them to be installed in user space which is obviously not supported with Windows.

[Darth Laidher]

I had all kinds of issues with XP back when it was still in beta. The early days of XP was ify as well. There were driver issues, stability issues... though neither was really Microsoft's fault. It was more issues with application developers believing they should have free reign of the system. It got significantly better even before SP2. With SP2 came a list of modifications to make XP more secure. A number of reasonable issues were addressed in XP sp3 as well.

As for Vista, I really never had any issues. It was rather resource intensive on light hardware, and there were minor issues (network copying), but again, it was mostly third party vendor issues with poor drivers and application design. I think it took a while for them to catch up. They have with Win7. Microsoft also did its part by improving the overall look and feel Vista with Win7. Less services, incremental start ups (elect).

it was beta what do you expect?When i switched from 98 to XP it was flawless for me.And i was running a P2 2.33mghz processor :p it was slow but did the job.

[hdood]

So? I'm sure some people preferred the look of system 7 on the early Macintoshes, does this mean that apple should have made it so people can switch MACOSX Snow Leopard to look like System 7?

The difference is that OS X and System 7 are completely different operating systems. Windows is the same from the first release of NT (and further back) to today. They simply added the themeing service in XP, and added the DWM in Vista. These are all layers sitting on top of each other. To get Classic, you simply remove two of the layers. It's the ultimate fallback, not just another theme. If they were to redesign Windows today with no focus on compatibility, this would all go, but that's asking for a lot more than just "replacing the Classic appearance with Basic." It would be a major breaking architectural change.

There's a time where certain outdated and ugly things must be laid to rest, to remove unnecessary outdated foundation to allow a more efficient (and better looking) foundation to take its place.

I think you're getting a little carried away here. What you are talking about is making changes that are purely visual and have no other impact on the OS at all.

[hdood]

People say that the registry causes system to slow down. So if you say that registry is not the cause, then what is?

It's not my job to tell you what you are talking about, you should know that yourself. You want to claim the registry slows down, you have to provide evidence of this.

Visual Studio is used for application developing, why would I need to install system-wide components? I need them to be installed in user space which is obviously not supported with Windows.

It could have been designed to install all shared components locally, and disable the various functionality that requires administrative rights, but what's the point. It accomplishes nothing of value.

[Mr. Gibs]

People say that the registry causes system to slow down. So if you say that registry is not the cause, then what is?

You mean those very same people who go and download registry cleaners that do nothing? Yup I really trust their evidence.

As I said, there are still programs that don't support it.

I would assume that this has to do with shoddy code. Before Vista every application developer thought they could code their applications with admin rights, since pretty much 99% of XP accounts were admins. When Vista came about and started making prompts, most applications started acting funny.

So? I'm sure some people preferred the look of system 7 on the early Macintoshes, does this mean that apple should have made it so people can switch MACOSX Snow Leopard to look like System 7? There's a time where certain outdated and ugly things must be laid to rest, to remove unnecessary outdated foundation to allow a more efficient (and better looking) foundation to take its place.

Apple has an easy way with Mac. It's usershare isn't anywhere near as big as Windows. Sure MS can re-design windows to make it look different but think about the problems that would cause. You had the media and even people on this forum (and others) up in arms about vista because a few shortcuts were moved around.

If they finally got rid of the classic theme, it means they rewrote the foundation and a much better look, without requiring a service, has taken its place. Imagine that, a nice looking theme that does not require a service to run!

And replace the service with what exactly?

[azure.sapphire]

The difference is that OS X and System 7 are completely different operating systems. Windows is the same from the first release of NT (and further back) to today. They simply added the themeing service in XP, and added the DWM in Vista. These are all layers sitting on top of each other. To get Classic, you simply remove two of the layers. It's the ultimate fallback, not just another theme. If they were to redesign Windows today with no focus on compatibility, this would all go, but that's asking for a lot more than just "replacing the Classic appearance with Basic." It would be a major breaking architectural change.

I think you're getting a little carried away here. What you are talking about is making changes that are purely visual and have no other impact on the OS at all.

Yes and no. Aqua is a theme (like Luna and the default Win7 theme). It runs atop the Quartz Compositor (like the Desktop Windows Manager), which is the windowing system for OS X. I believe you could simply remove the ability for the end user to select the Classic UI theme. It would still be there, but unavailable. The issue, however, would become more complex if there were driver issues.

[Lazure]

Yes and no. Aqua is a theme (like Luna and the default Win7 theme). It runs atop the Quartz Compositor (like the Desktop Windows Manager), which is the windowing system for OS X. I believe you could simply remove the ability for the end user to select the Classic UI theme. It would still be there, but unavailable. The issue, however, would become more complex if there were driver issues.

Yeah, why don't they just make it so only safe mode and servers can use this theme? Have the ability to use it disabled in normal Windows client. Then they can totally break how things look in it further without a big worry.

That way I won't have to see that ugliness used in a modern OS nearly as much in people's screenshots/videos.

[Mr. Gibs]

Yeah, why don't they just make it so only safe mode and servers can use this theme? Have the ability to use it disabled in normal Windows client. Then they can totally break how things look in it further without a big worry.

That way I won't have to see that ugliness used in a modern OS nearly as much in people's screenshots/videos.

I don't know what screenshots / videos you're looking at but I haven't seen any that show Windows 7 classic theme. And why disable it?

If people want to use it, it's THEIR choice. Not yours. And its not like someone won't use a UXTHEME patch and put it right back anyways.

[Lazure]

I don't know what screenshots / videos you're looking at but I haven't seen any that show Windows 7 classic theme. And why disable it?

If people want to use it, it's THEIR choice. Not yours. And its not like someone won't use a UXTHEME patch and put it right back anyways.

I've seen it on various IRC locales, on Youtube, and even on the desktop threads here on Neowin occassionally. Windows 7 and classic theme do not mix, and honestly 15 years is a very long time in the world of technology, to keep the SAME EXACT LOOK around for so long.

[Mr. Gibs]

I've seen it on various IRC locales, on Youtube, and even on the desktop threads here on Neowin occassionally. Windows 7 and classic theme do not mix, and honestly 15 years is a very long time in the world of technology, to keep the SAME EXACT LOOK around for so long.

Yet again, why the hell do you care if someone else likes that theme and wants to use it? Did you make Windows? Did you pay for their computer and their software?

Yeh they could completely re-write it and design an entire new classic theme. But why? It wouldn't be able to use many "special effects," if any, since that is all done by DWM, it may cause compatibility issues etc. You have a perfectly good working shell working on top of it, so might as well leave something as trivial as a classic look that less than 1% of the world uses and focus on other more important things.

---

Here's an example. I hate the font you use, but I'm not telling you which one to use since its your account and I don't own Neowin.

[Darth Laidher]

I agree with others, who cares if the classic theme is still in there.Its not mandatory that you have to use it,it doesn't ship with the classic theme being the first thing you see when you turn on your new machine.The more options the better.Maybe i'll want to use it just for old times sake,I've tried it out in 7 and it doesn't look quite like the actual classic theme but its close enough.I don't like the classic theme myself and I wouldn't use it unless I had to but I don't want it gone just because I don't use it. The more options the better.

[Descartes]

Starting from scratch is NEVER a good idea.

edit: didn't notice how old the original post is... but my point is still present :p

[Quattrone]

Starting from scratch is NEVER a good idea.

But Microsoft will need to do it in the future. What is the point of keep up with the NTFS since 1993 and updated framework. Where is the research work that they have been doing with

?

[JTaylor69]

Loving the name Darth Laidher

[M_Lyons10]

But Microsoft will need to do it in the future. What is the point of keep up with the NTFS since 1993 and updated framework. Where is the research work that they have been doing with

?

Why would they need to start from scratch in the future. They could rewrite certain parts of the OS (And I would expect them to do this), but I see no *Need* to start from scratch...

[Lazure]

Well, if it was gone, then colleges and workplaces could no longer FORCE their users to use classic theme against their will like they have been with XP... and I sure don't wanna be stuck on a machine for the majority of the day forced to the classic look because the admin was a total jerk who wants to make everyone deal with his plain ideology. No classic theme in Windows = no more forcing users to have to use it.. which means I won't have to deal with it if I end up in a place like that!

[argonite]

People say that the registry causes system to slow down. So if you say that registry is not the cause, then what is?

These same people are usually trying to sell you, or have been lured by a company trying to sell you, a registry optimization product.

Which is completely useless and can actually wreck your registry on some occasions.

The registry is NOT slow. It's only weakness is that it's centralized. But that's also its strength.

[M_Lyons10]

Well, if it was gone, then colleges and workplaces could no longer FORCE their users to use classic theme against their will like they have been with XP... and I sure don't wanna be stuck on a machine for the majority of the day forced to the classic look because the admin was a total jerk who wants to make everyone deal with his plain ideology. No classic theme in Windows = no more forcing users to have to use it.. which means I won't have to deal with it if I end up in a place like that!

Are you aware of a situation where this is actually occuring with Windows 7? I ask because I've never heard of this, nor can I imagine an IT person doing this when the standard UI is much easier for them to just set up...

[Guest]

I do like aero and everything but I don't see any point at all to remove it. If it's disabled on a big collage network or something, it's likely that the hardware can't cope with it.

[thechronic]

But Microsoft will need to do it in the future.

I agree that such a thing would be exciting, but i cannot genuinely think when it would become feasible or at least economically viable for Microsoft. That said, it isn't difficult to envisage a scenario where they will need to develop an Operating System that is designed to harness the power of the Internet as opposed to the colossal amount if ram your Computer has.

Are you aware of a situation where this is actually occuring with Windows 7? I ask because I've never heard of this, nor can I imagine an IT person doing this when the standard UI is much easier for them to just set up...

In my experience, when dealing with NT, 2000 & XP workstations it became necessary in some situations to force the Classic theme for certain Groups of users alone with the Classic Start Menu to avoid compatibility issues. The gap has only become more apparent between older Operating Systems and Windows 7 as time progresses.

[ccoltmanm]

If windows 7 is such a huge hit and takes the place of everyones xp machine, then windows 8 could be marketed as a power user OS.

[M_Lyons10]

If windows 7 is such a huge hit and takes the place of everyones xp machine, then windows 8 could be marketed as a power user OS.

Well, Windows 7 is being labeled as a "Minor" release. Windows 8 will be "Major", as Microsoft has stated they plan on alternating Major / Minor releases... I would love to know what's planned for Windows 8... *drools*

[Foxfyre]

Well, Vista is prolly the closest thing lately to a "complete rewrite", and even then I'm sure they used some existing code. However WITH that almost total rewrite, there was 7(?) years between XP and Vista? That just takes WAY to long.