Turn 10 responds to Forza graphics backlash

By Sethos
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Grand Master

Smigit

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This all effects gameplay how?

I know theres the mindset that graphics don't matter but lets be honest here, they do help create a sense of immersion in what is a title trying to simulate reality. If that's not relevant to the gameplay I don't know what is. Not saying graphics are the be-end-all but I don't subscribe to the notion that game mechanics is all that contributes to the gameplay while the visuals themselves are unimportant.

Anyhow, the game still looks good.

  • 2 weeks later...
Grand Master

ToneKnee

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Well Forza does look good, no it's not at GT5 standards, but you have to remember the cost of consoles in comparison to their PC counterparts. The console itself is normally less than a single graphics card that some people seem to be cmparing it to. People need realistic expectations of what the machine can achieve with what it has to work with. Agreed sometimes PR companies shoot themselves in the foot with bullshots but that's what they seem to do best.

No.

I would expect GT5 to look good if not better than Forza 3, why? Because they've delayed the game so many times it's getting pathetic, so I wouldn't expect anything less.

Community Regular

phunkymunky

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Personally, I don't understand people complaining about the graphics in FM3. 60FPS, detail galore, and smooth almost precise physics for everything from tyre traction and warping to weight and body roll. All this makes up for a completely immersive racing simulation.

I can't complain at all. Both the demo, and now the full release, have been completely entertaining and enjoyable to play.

If I could fault anything, it would be the music. Compared to FM2, it's pretty average.

Grand Master

Boz

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Well Forza does look good, no it's not at GT5 standards,

How? GT5 for example also releases pre-rendered and photo-mode replay shots. The in-game cars have no AA and look slightly worse, just like Forza 3.

I think that Forza 3 looks at least on par with GT5. We are yet to see real in-game screenshots from GT5 but I think it won't look that much better than Forza 3 to be perfectly honest. I do think that GT5 will have better lighting but that's about it and is mostly due to creativity of the crew in charged and the fact they had quite a few years to make the game and will still release it like 6 or more months after Forza 3.

I just want to ask what this whole hubbub is all about..

Is the final game looking like the demo or worse? I mean it's common knowledge that replays and photo-modes will always look better than the actual gameplay because the replays and photos don't have real-time calculations and similar so devs can pump up the details.

FM3 demo looked stunning to me. Cars were fantastic and super detailed and handling and racing feel was terrific. The best driving game I've played so far in my life and I can't wait until I pick it up in the morning and play around with vinyl editor and customize my dream vehicles like I did in FM2.

Grand Master

carmatic

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i dont see what the big fuss is

just cover it up with enough glare, motion blur and camera shake and all will be fine! if it ends up looking like you are driving drunk or something, all the better cuz its just a game and its ok to do that

then during replay mode you could say that it was recorded with professional cameras and stuff, thats why the glare and blur is gone and everything is clearer...

it gives people reason to watch the replays since thats the only way you can appreciate all the stuff they put into the game world...

Grand Master

HawkMan

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i dont see what the big fuss is

just cover it up with enough glare, motion blur and camera shake and all will be fine! if it ends up looking like you are driving drunk or something, all the better cuz its just a game and its ok to do that

No, that's shift :p

Grand Master

+Audioboxer Subscriber²

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How? GT5 for example also releases pre-rendered and photo-mode replay shots. The in-game cars have no AA and look slightly worse, just like Forza 3.

I think that Forza 3 looks at least on par with GT5. We are yet to see real in-game screenshots from GT5 but I think it won't look that much better than Forza 3 to be perfectly honest. I do think that GT5 will have better lighting but that's about it and is mostly due to creativity of the crew in charged and the fact they had quite a few years to make the game and will still release it like 6 or more months after Forza 3.

I just want to ask what this whole hubbub is all about..

Is the final game looking like the demo or worse? I mean it's common knowledge that replays and photo-modes will always look better than the actual gameplay because the replays and photos don't have real-time calculations and similar so devs can pump up the details.

FM3 demo looked stunning to me. Cars were fantastic and super detailed and handling and racing feel was terrific. The best driving game I've played so far in my life and I can't wait until I pick it up in the morning and play around with vinyl editor and customize my dream vehicles like I did in FM2.

Uhh GT5 has 2xAA at 1080p, 4xAA at 720p. Forza 3 has 2xAA at 720p.

Also this topic was primarily created because all those photomode shots Turn10 released, they can't be created by you or me because photomode in Forza 3 is limited to 720p, and all the pictures are heavily compressed. Not to mention there's no cockpit mode available for photomode. Therefore people are angry at Turn10 claiming all the pre-release shots are from photomode while none of them can be recreated. Try creating something like this in photomode, you can't.

GT5 does 8 mega pixel photo mode.

Veteran

Remysaus

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you can recreate those shots, it's when you upload them to the servers they get compressed. the shots you make on the 360 can be just as good looking, turn10 just has a way of getting the pics uncompressed while we don't.

Grand Master

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you can recreate those shots, it's when you upload them to the servers they get compressed. the shots you make on the 360 can be just as good looking, turn10 just has a way of getting the pics uncompressed while we don't.

Well if you notice the above shot is 1080p as well, Forza 3 screencaps output at 720p.

Still as I said Turn10 told people they could do the shots in photomode, if they're compressing them, that's still causing the complaints because the shots don't look like what Turn10 have been releasing.

You also have shots like this, which can't be done at all.

Explorer

darthmahon

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Are we really complaining about the photos it produces? If I were Turn 10 I would focus on the FPS issues on the last game. They can't market their game based on the photos it produces, but they can sure as hell make a big noise about the game being 60fps, as will anyone reviewing the game.

Grand Master

HawkMan

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Well if you notice the above shot is 1080p as well, Forza 3 screencaps output at 720p.

Still as I said Turn10 told people they could do the shots in photomode, if they're compressing them, that's still causing the complaints because the shots don't look like what Turn10 have been releasing.

You also have shots like this, which can't be done at all.

Are you sure the shots stored on the 360 isn't 1080 ? because I'm not.

honestly though, if you bought forza to take virtual photos... you might consider buying a camera instead.

Grand Master

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Are you sure the shots stored on the 360 isn't 1080 ? because I'm not.

honestly though, if you bought forza to take virtual photos... you might consider buying a camera instead.

Does it matter? It's not uploaded in 1080p is it?

As for your second comment, for a car enthusiast in a game where you also get access to livery/vinyls, it's of no surprise people aren't happy you can't output those lovely large detailed screenshots Turn10 have been.

Anyway you've got MS to thank, not so much Turn10, they won't let them output JPG/PNG to the 360 hard drive therefore Turn10 need to foot the bandwidth which results in heavily compressed images.

Are we really complaining about the photos it produces? If I were Turn 10 I would focus on the FPS issues on the last game. They can't market their game based on the photos it produces, but they can sure as hell make a big noise about the game being 60fps, as will anyone reviewing the game.

Any racing game looking to take itself seriously will run at 60FPS nowadays.

Motion Blur, AKA NFS Shift mode, is not a substitute for speed.

Grand Master

Boz

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Well if you notice the above shot is 1080p as well, Forza 3 screencaps output at 720p.

Still as I said Turn10 told people they could do the shots in photomode, if they're compressing them, that's still causing the complaints because the shots don't look like what Turn10 have been releasing.

You also have shots like this, which can't be done at all.

It's exactly the same at what PD does with GT5 shots. It shows the detail of imagery. They are promo photos. Most of the GT5 are like this. Super polished, pre-rendered and in case of previews most likely cleaned up.

I just think there is absolutely no need for people to complain. The compression of photo mode was explained by Turn 10 and they said that compression will go away but they are trying to evaluate the amount of bandwidth people will utilize with photo mode and didn't want to overload the servers from the start. Once the number of users stabilizes and they will have a good idea how much bandwith and servers they need and they promised to drastically improve the quality. It's mostly a precaution right now.

And I'm yet to see GT5 running at 2x full 1080p. There is simply no way they can pull it off. If they do, hats off but I'm pretty sure their resolution will be closer to 720p. PS3 simply doesn't have enough juice to do 2x full 1080p AA, the GPU can't handle it. Uncharted 2 even though it looks fantastic couldn't and these guys are crazy involved with PS3's architecture.

Grand Master

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It's exactly the same at what PD does with GT5 shots. It shows the detail of imagery. They are promo photos. Most of the GT5 are like this. Super polished, pre-rendered and in case of previews most likely cleaned up.

I just think there is absolutely no need for people to complain. The compression of photo mode was explained by Turn 10 and they said that compression will go away but they are trying to evaluate the amount of bandwidth people will utilize with photo mode and didn't want to overload the servers from the start. Once the number of users stabilizes and they will have a good idea how much bandwith and servers they need and they promised to drastically improve the quality. It's mostly a precaution right now.

And I'm yet to see GT5 running at 2x full 1080p. There is simply no way they can pull it off. If they do, hats off but I'm pretty sure their resolution will be closer to 720p. PS3 simply doesn't have enough juice to do 2x full 1080p AA, the GPU can't handle it. Uncharted 2 even though it looks fantastic couldn't and these guys are crazy involved with PS3's architecture.

Yeah but the difference is we as GT5 owners will be able to take the same shots PD take. What happens is the shots capture at 8 megapixels in GT5, then are resized for 1080p for marketing, therefore they are supersampled, but still in-game. You have the effects given to replay mode, which we are all familiar with, and supersampling.

GT5 8 megapixel image from photomode - PD will no doubt take these, then resize them to 1080p for marketing.

I think the Forza 3 fans raising the backlash were led to believe due to Che saying Turn10 use the in-game photomode for promo shots they'd be able to create the same results as Turn10 - It was only AFTER the game came out everyone found out the photomode shots were heavily compressed and nothing like what Turn10 were releasing (you can't do cockpit view at all, nothing to do with compression). The dury is out on how much they improve it, but I don't think it will be too much, as I said they're footing the bandwidth bill on this - MS really should just let them output to the hard drive.

GT5 will not be full 1080p 2xAA, it'll be similar to Prologue which is ????x1080 2xAA. 1080 horizontally, scaled somewhat vertically.

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