Turn 10 responds to Forza graphics backlash


Recommended Posts

This all effects gameplay how?

I know theres the mindset that graphics don't matter but lets be honest here, they do help create a sense of immersion in what is a title trying to simulate reality. If that's not relevant to the gameplay I don't know what is. Not saying graphics are the be-end-all but I don't subscribe to the notion that game mechanics is all that contributes to the gameplay while the visuals themselves are unimportant.

Anyhow, the game still looks good.

  • 2 weeks later...
Well Forza does look good, no it's not at GT5 standards, but you have to remember the cost of consoles in comparison to their PC counterparts. The console itself is normally less than a single graphics card that some people seem to be cmparing it to. People need realistic expectations of what the machine can achieve with what it has to work with. Agreed sometimes PR companies shoot themselves in the foot with bullshots but that's what they seem to do best.

No.

I would expect GT5 to look good if not better than Forza 3, why? Because they've delayed the game so many times it's getting pathetic, so I wouldn't expect anything less.

Personally, I don't understand people complaining about the graphics in FM3. 60FPS, detail galore, and smooth almost precise physics for everything from tyre traction and warping to weight and body roll. All this makes up for a completely immersive racing simulation.

I can't complain at all. Both the demo, and now the full release, have been completely entertaining and enjoyable to play.

If I could fault anything, it would be the music. Compared to FM2, it's pretty average.

Well Forza does look good, no it's not at GT5 standards,

How? GT5 for example also releases pre-rendered and photo-mode replay shots. The in-game cars have no AA and look slightly worse, just like Forza 3.

I think that Forza 3 looks at least on par with GT5. We are yet to see real in-game screenshots from GT5 but I think it won't look that much better than Forza 3 to be perfectly honest. I do think that GT5 will have better lighting but that's about it and is mostly due to creativity of the crew in charged and the fact they had quite a few years to make the game and will still release it like 6 or more months after Forza 3.

I just want to ask what this whole hubbub is all about..

Is the final game looking like the demo or worse? I mean it's common knowledge that replays and photo-modes will always look better than the actual gameplay because the replays and photos don't have real-time calculations and similar so devs can pump up the details.

FM3 demo looked stunning to me. Cars were fantastic and super detailed and handling and racing feel was terrific. The best driving game I've played so far in my life and I can't wait until I pick it up in the morning and play around with vinyl editor and customize my dream vehicles like I did in FM2.

i dont see what the big fuss is

just cover it up with enough glare, motion blur and camera shake and all will be fine! if it ends up looking like you are driving drunk or something, all the better cuz its just a game and its ok to do that

then during replay mode you could say that it was recorded with professional cameras and stuff, thats why the glare and blur is gone and everything is clearer...

it gives people reason to watch the replays since thats the only way you can appreciate all the stuff they put into the game world...

i dont see what the big fuss is

just cover it up with enough glare, motion blur and camera shake and all will be fine! if it ends up looking like you are driving drunk or something, all the better cuz its just a game and its ok to do that

No, that's shift :p

How? GT5 for example also releases pre-rendered and photo-mode replay shots. The in-game cars have no AA and look slightly worse, just like Forza 3.

I think that Forza 3 looks at least on par with GT5. We are yet to see real in-game screenshots from GT5 but I think it won't look that much better than Forza 3 to be perfectly honest. I do think that GT5 will have better lighting but that's about it and is mostly due to creativity of the crew in charged and the fact they had quite a few years to make the game and will still release it like 6 or more months after Forza 3.

I just want to ask what this whole hubbub is all about..

Is the final game looking like the demo or worse? I mean it's common knowledge that replays and photo-modes will always look better than the actual gameplay because the replays and photos don't have real-time calculations and similar so devs can pump up the details.

FM3 demo looked stunning to me. Cars were fantastic and super detailed and handling and racing feel was terrific. The best driving game I've played so far in my life and I can't wait until I pick it up in the morning and play around with vinyl editor and customize my dream vehicles like I did in FM2.

Uhh GT5 has 2xAA at 1080p, 4xAA at 720p. Forza 3 has 2xAA at 720p.

Also this topic was primarily created because all those photomode shots Turn10 released, they can't be created by you or me because photomode in Forza 3 is limited to 720p, and all the pictures are heavily compressed. Not to mention there's no cockpit mode available for photomode. Therefore people are angry at Turn10 claiming all the pre-release shots are from photomode while none of them can be recreated. Try creating something like this in photomode, you can't.

GT5 does 8 mega pixel photo mode.

you can recreate those shots, it's when you upload them to the servers they get compressed. the shots you make on the 360 can be just as good looking, turn10 just has a way of getting the pics uncompressed while we don't.

you can recreate those shots, it's when you upload them to the servers they get compressed. the shots you make on the 360 can be just as good looking, turn10 just has a way of getting the pics uncompressed while we don't.

Well if you notice the above shot is 1080p as well, Forza 3 screencaps output at 720p.

Still as I said Turn10 told people they could do the shots in photomode, if they're compressing them, that's still causing the complaints because the shots don't look like what Turn10 have been releasing.

You also have shots like this, which can't be done at all.

Are we really complaining about the photos it produces? If I were Turn 10 I would focus on the FPS issues on the last game. They can't market their game based on the photos it produces, but they can sure as hell make a big noise about the game being 60fps, as will anyone reviewing the game.

Well if you notice the above shot is 1080p as well, Forza 3 screencaps output at 720p.

Still as I said Turn10 told people they could do the shots in photomode, if they're compressing them, that's still causing the complaints because the shots don't look like what Turn10 have been releasing.

You also have shots like this, which can't be done at all.

Are you sure the shots stored on the 360 isn't 1080 ? because I'm not.

honestly though, if you bought forza to take virtual photos... you might consider buying a camera instead.

Are you sure the shots stored on the 360 isn't 1080 ? because I'm not.

honestly though, if you bought forza to take virtual photos... you might consider buying a camera instead.

Does it matter? It's not uploaded in 1080p is it?

As for your second comment, for a car enthusiast in a game where you also get access to livery/vinyls, it's of no surprise people aren't happy you can't output those lovely large detailed screenshots Turn10 have been.

Anyway you've got MS to thank, not so much Turn10, they won't let them output JPG/PNG to the 360 hard drive therefore Turn10 need to foot the bandwidth which results in heavily compressed images.

Are we really complaining about the photos it produces? If I were Turn 10 I would focus on the FPS issues on the last game. They can't market their game based on the photos it produces, but they can sure as hell make a big noise about the game being 60fps, as will anyone reviewing the game.

Any racing game looking to take itself seriously will run at 60FPS nowadays.

Motion Blur, AKA NFS Shift mode, is not a substitute for speed.

Well if you notice the above shot is 1080p as well, Forza 3 screencaps output at 720p.

Still as I said Turn10 told people they could do the shots in photomode, if they're compressing them, that's still causing the complaints because the shots don't look like what Turn10 have been releasing.

You also have shots like this, which can't be done at all.

It's exactly the same at what PD does with GT5 shots. It shows the detail of imagery. They are promo photos. Most of the GT5 are like this. Super polished, pre-rendered and in case of previews most likely cleaned up.

I just think there is absolutely no need for people to complain. The compression of photo mode was explained by Turn 10 and they said that compression will go away but they are trying to evaluate the amount of bandwidth people will utilize with photo mode and didn't want to overload the servers from the start. Once the number of users stabilizes and they will have a good idea how much bandwith and servers they need and they promised to drastically improve the quality. It's mostly a precaution right now.

And I'm yet to see GT5 running at 2x full 1080p. There is simply no way they can pull it off. If they do, hats off but I'm pretty sure their resolution will be closer to 720p. PS3 simply doesn't have enough juice to do 2x full 1080p AA, the GPU can't handle it. Uncharted 2 even though it looks fantastic couldn't and these guys are crazy involved with PS3's architecture.

It's exactly the same at what PD does with GT5 shots. It shows the detail of imagery. They are promo photos. Most of the GT5 are like this. Super polished, pre-rendered and in case of previews most likely cleaned up.

I just think there is absolutely no need for people to complain. The compression of photo mode was explained by Turn 10 and they said that compression will go away but they are trying to evaluate the amount of bandwidth people will utilize with photo mode and didn't want to overload the servers from the start. Once the number of users stabilizes and they will have a good idea how much bandwith and servers they need and they promised to drastically improve the quality. It's mostly a precaution right now.

And I'm yet to see GT5 running at 2x full 1080p. There is simply no way they can pull it off. If they do, hats off but I'm pretty sure their resolution will be closer to 720p. PS3 simply doesn't have enough juice to do 2x full 1080p AA, the GPU can't handle it. Uncharted 2 even though it looks fantastic couldn't and these guys are crazy involved with PS3's architecture.

Yeah but the difference is we as GT5 owners will be able to take the same shots PD take. What happens is the shots capture at 8 megapixels in GT5, then are resized for 1080p for marketing, therefore they are supersampled, but still in-game. You have the effects given to replay mode, which we are all familiar with, and supersampling.

GT5 8 megapixel image from photomode - PD will no doubt take these, then resize them to 1080p for marketing.

I think the Forza 3 fans raising the backlash were led to believe due to Che saying Turn10 use the in-game photomode for promo shots they'd be able to create the same results as Turn10 - It was only AFTER the game came out everyone found out the photomode shots were heavily compressed and nothing like what Turn10 were releasing (you can't do cockpit view at all, nothing to do with compression). The dury is out on how much they improve it, but I don't think it will be too much, as I said they're footing the bandwidth bill on this - MS really should just let them output to the hard drive.

GT5 will not be full 1080p 2xAA, it'll be similar to Prologue which is ????x1080 2xAA. 1080 horizontally, scaled somewhat vertically.

This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Posts

    • A 13 billion year old secret about our Universe's origin was revealed by Sayan Sen Image by Pascal Küffer via Pexels Researchers at the Max-Planck-Institut für Kernphysik (MPIK) in Heidelberg had recreated a key chemical reaction from the early universe, producing results that could change scientists' understanding of how the first stars formed. The study focused on the helium hydride ion (HeH⁺), which is widely regarded as the first molecule to form in the universe. Scientists believe HeH⁺ appeared around 380,000 years after the Big Bang, when the universe had cooled enough for electrons and atomic nuclei to combine into neutral atoms in a period known as recombination. This marked the beginning of chemistry in the cosmos. Immediately after the Big Bang about 13.8 billion years ago, the universe was extremely hot and dense. As it expanded and cooled, hydrogen and helium became the dominant elements. Once neutral helium atoms formed, they could react with ionised hydrogen nuclei, or protons, to create helium hydride ions. Although simple in structure, HeH⁺ played an important role in the young universe. It was the first step in a chain of reactions that eventually produced molecular hydrogen (H₂), a molecule made up of two hydrogen atoms and now the most abundant molecule in the universe. Molecular hydrogen later became a key ingredient in the formation of the first stars. At the time, the universe had entered a phase often called the cosmological "dark age." Matter had become transparent to light following recombination, but there were still no stars or galaxies producing visible light. Several hundred million years would pass before the first stars appeared. For those first stars to form, large clouds of gas had to collapse under their own gravity. To do that, the gas needed to cool by releasing energy. While hydrogen atoms can help with this process at high temperatures, they become less effective below about 10,000 degrees Celsius. Molecules can continue the cooling process by releasing energy through rotational and vibrational motions. Scientists have long considered HeH⁺ a potentially important coolant because of its comparatively large dipole moment, a property that describes how electric charge is distributed within a molecule and allows it to release energy efficiently. The amount of helium hydride present in the early universe may therefore have influenced how easily the first stars could form. At the same time, HeH⁺ was constantly being destroyed. Under primordial conditions, its main destruction mechanisms were recombination with free electrons and chemical reactions with hydrogen atoms. These reactions ultimately helped produce molecular hydrogen, linking the formation and destruction of HeH⁺ to the chemistry that shaped the early universe. For many years, theoretical studies suggested that reactions between HeH⁺ and hydrogen atoms would become much slower at low temperatures. Scientists believed there was an energy barrier along the reaction pathway that reduced the chances of the reaction taking place in the cold conditions of the early universe. The new study suggests otherwise. To investigate the process, researchers recreated a closely related reaction using deuterium, a naturally occurring isotope of hydrogen that contains one proton and one neutron in its nucleus. When HeH⁺ collides with deuterium, it forms an HD⁺ ion and a neutral helium atom. This allows scientists to study the reaction in a controlled way while closely mimicking the behaviour of the original reaction involving hydrogen. The experiments were carried out at the Cryogenic Storage Ring (CSR) at MPIK, a specialised facility designed to recreate conditions similar to those found in space. Researchers stored HeH⁺ ions in the 35-metre storage ring for up to 60 seconds at temperatures just a few kelvins above absolute zero and merged them with a beam of neutral deuterium atoms. By adjusting the speeds of the two particle beams, the team measured how the reaction rate changed with collision energy, which is directly related to temperature. The researchers found that the reaction rate remains almost constant as temperatures decrease. In other words, the reaction does not slow down at low temperatures as earlier models predicted. “Previous theories predicted a significant decrease in the reaction probability at low temperatures, but we were unable to verify this in either the experiment or new theoretical calculations by our colleagues,” explained Dr Holger Kreckel of MPIK. “The reactions of HeH⁺ with neutral hydrogen and deuterium therefore appear to have been far more important for chemistry in the early universe than previously assumed,” he continued. According to the researchers, the reaction appears to be barrierless, meaning there is no energy obstacle preventing it from taking place efficiently even at very low temperatures. The findings support recent theoretical work led by physicist Yohann Scribano, whose group identified an error in a widely used potential energy surface, a mathematical model used to describe how the energy of a system changes during a chemical reaction. The error appears to have caused previous studies to significantly underestimate reaction rates under primordial conditions. The new calculations closely match the experimental results. Together, they suggest that helium chemistry in the early universe may need to be re-evaluated. Because molecules such as HeH⁺ and molecular hydrogen played an important role in cooling primordial gas clouds, the findings could help scientists build more accurate models of how the first stars formed. By showing that helium hydride was likely destroyed more efficiently than previously thought, the study offers new insight into the chemical processes that shaped the universe during its earliest stages and helped set the conditions for the emergence of the first stars. Source: Max-Planck Institute, EDP Sciences This article was generated with some help from AI and reviewed by an editor. Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, this material is used for the purpose of news reporting. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing.
    • "What an interesting smell you've discovered"
    • It could EASILY be 70 for the base game BUT + lots of FOMO to make it up to 100-120, like a few days Early Access, online money, pre-order bonus cars, weapons, missions, clothing, avatars or profile stuff, etc... And still WAY TOO MANY people would buy those and make Rockstar insane money.
    • Just to understand: your solution to getting rid of an online password manager is...another online password manager?
    • Cjam 2.5.0.0 by Razvan Serea Cjam is a lightweight and fast MP3 editor for Windows that lets you cut, join, and edit MP3 files without re-encoding. This means your audio quality remains untouched, and edits happen instantly. Cjam is ideal for quick, lossless edits—whether you're trimming music, combining tracks, or preparing audio for learning tools or podcasts. It features batch processing, scripting support, cue and playlist file handling, and a simple interface. Cjam is perfect for anyone who needs efficient MP3 editing without the complexity of full audio suites. Cjam requires a PC running Windows 10 or later and Microsoft .NET 6.0 or later. Key features for Cjam: No Re-encoding: Edit MP3 files without losing quality. Cut and Join MP3: Easily cut, trim, and combine MP3 tracks. Batch Processing: Edit multiple files at once for faster workflows. Scriptable Interface: Automate tasks with a custom command language. Cue and Playlist Support: Handle CUE and playlist files for seamless audio management. Fast and Lightweight: Quick processing with minimal system resources. Lossless Audio Editing: Ensure your edits don't affect audio quality. Simple User Interface: Clean, intuitive design for easy navigation. File Format Support: Works with MP3, Cjam-specific file formats (CJAMC, CJAMJ, CJAM). Cjam 2.5.0.0 changelog: Added clipboard-based import/export support for mp3DirectCut Added clipboard-based export support for REAPER Added support for naming IMP3 elements Changed the Reset behavior to preserve Undo/Redo history; use Shift key + Reset button to clear it Added a new command parameter (qcp) Added 8 new entries to lang.txt (main_c124-126, main_d150-151, main_m082, vme_c014, vme_d005) Fixed a bug where the il parameter was incorrectly applied when pasting VMP3s into the main list Fixed several other minor bugs Download: Cjam 2.5.0.0 | 1.4 MB (Freeware) Links: Cjam Home Page | Cjam Manual | Screenshot Get alerted to all of our Software updates on Twitter at @NeowinSoftware
  • Recent Achievements

    • Dedicated
      JuvenileDelinquent earned a badge
      Dedicated
    • First Post
      DrWankel earned a badge
      First Post
    • Reacting Well
      DrWankel earned a badge
      Reacting Well
    • Week One Done
      Supreme Spray LV earned a badge
      Week One Done
    • Week One Done
      Genuinetonerink- Dubai earned a badge
      Week One Done
  • Popular Contributors

    1. 1
      +primortal
      504
    2. 2
      +Edouard
      163
    3. 3
      PsYcHoKiLLa
      91
    4. 4
      Steven P.
      75
    5. 5
      Michael Scrip
      72
  • Tell a friend

    Love Neowin? Tell a friend!