I fought Microsoft over selling NFR software and I won!

[HawkMan]

Why would you be required? MS sold / gave you a product without support.

"gave", keyword

[shakey]

"gave", keyword

You only support what you warrant. If you don't warrant it, you don't have to support it. There's a great line from Tommy Boy I could insert here....

[Richard Hammond]

Nope I'm afraid your wrong. I work for the government at a university and we run under basically the same licenses you are alluding to.

You are infact running an illegal copy of Windows (and any other software you have installed from "work") and have actually technically stolen from the state. That license does not cover installing on your own personal machine. It would allow you to run a copy of office at home as long as it was the governments computer, not your own personal computer.

Infact here is part of the license :-

"Microsoft Office 2007 and Vista

Under our MS Campus agreement {University} will be entitled to Vista Enterprise (upgrades only) and to Office 2007 Enterprise for {University} owned equipment. With these new products come changes to licensing and components that will significantly affect how and when they are deployed at {University}"

Hardly "illegal", he didnt steal the VLK but under the terms of the EULA the VLK isnt licenced to be used at home then at the very most all Microsoft could do is block the key and refuse to support the software, they cant get him put in jail, the term illegal is thrown about far too much in reference to software.

[HSoft]

Hardly "illegal", he didnt steal the VLK but under the terms of the EULA the VLK isnt licenced to be used at home then at the very most all Microsoft could do is block the key and refuse to support the software, they cant get him put in jail, the term illegal is thrown about far too much in reference to software.

err...as you point out under the terms he isn't licensed to run it at home. He therefore shouldn't have even tried to run it at home and therefore you could argue that he stole it from his workplace.

Where did he get the copy from? Work.

And was he allowed to use it at home? No

Therefore isn't that a form of theft?

Also running unlicensed software is illegal and can result in jail time.

I'm not saying he should be in jail. I was pointing out the fact that he is in all probability not running legal software on his home systems.

Also by definition, if it's not legal, which this doesn't appear to be, then it is illegal.

[FISKER_Q]

Hardly "illegal", he didnt steal the VLK but under the terms of the EULA the VLK isnt licenced to be used at home then at the very most all Microsoft could do is block the key and refuse to support the software, they cant get him put in jail, the term illegal is thrown about far too much in reference to software.

The term illegal is understood far too little by people who think the term illegal is thrown about far too much.

[Richard Hammond]

No its not theft, nowhere did he say that he took a copy of windows home from work, he could have used his own Windows disc but used his works VLK.

He didnt take the property of his work and by using the key he didnt deprive his workplace from a windows licence, he used a licence key that by definition licences windows in volumes and the terms of which state that it can only be used at work, so therefore the extent of his "crime" is breaking the terms of the EULA which isnt a legally binding contract, he cant go to jail for breaking a EULA, all Microsoft can do is block the key and his access and refuse to support any software using the VLK.

The term illegal is understood far too little by people who think the term illegal is thrown about far too much.

Get a clue, EULAs arent legally enforceable, he didnt steal a copy of windows and he didnt steal a windows licence, he used the VLK at home and by doing so broke the terms of the EULA, and since the EULA isnt legally enforceable his copy of windows isnt "illegal" nor can he go to jail for using it.

[HSoft]

No its not theft, nowhere did he say that he took a copy of windows home from work, he could have used his own Windows disc but used his works VLK.

He didnt take the property of his work and by using the key he didnt deprive his workplace from a windows licence, he used a licence key that by definition licences windows in volumes and the terms of which state that it can only be used at work, so therefore the extent of his "crime" is breaking the terms of the EULA which isnt a legally binding contract, he cant go to jail for breaking a EULA, all Microsoft can do is block the key and his access and refuse to support any software using the VLK.

So what you are saying is that I can pirate all the software that I want and the companies can't do anything about it but just block that software from running?

He did take the property of work. The VLK is the property of work. It's not HIS own VLK, it's the works VLK.

[justmike]

I called our director of techlology at HQ, and he said that MS allows us one copy of Office, and one copy of Windows XP or Vista or 7. Other than that I do not know, if I ask MS will they tell me?

[Richard Hammond]

So what you are saying is that I can pirate all the software that I want and the companies can't do anything about it but just block that software from running?

He did take the property of work. The VLK is the property of work. It's not HIS own VLK, it's the works VLK.

VLK cant be taken as property, to steal he would have had to deprive his workplace from ever using the VLK again, the VLK is a Volume Licence Key which activates Windows installations indiscriminately, he might get into trouble from his workplace should they find out but his copy isnt illegal, it just breaks the terms of the EULA by installing a VLK at home, and we all know EULAs cannot be enforced legally.

If he had taken a product key that only enables you to activate one copy of windows, then yes that would be stealing as he deprived his workplace of that windows licence.

[carmatic]

i think that microsoft trying to enforce the not for resale would count as bullying, but selling off something that would have been a party isnt cool... its like $$$ > social interaction , or something...

[Anooxy]

He shouldn't have done that. I suppose the guy thought he would be a kind of hero for winning against the 'big guys'. Truth is, morally he did lose. Enjoy your bad reputation here now.

[HSoft]

VLK cant be taken as property, to steal he would have had to deprive his workplace from ever using the VLK again, the VLK is a Volume Licence Key which activates Windows installations indiscriminately, he might get into trouble from his workplace should they find out but his copy isnt illegal, it just breaks the terms of the EULA by installing a VLK at home, and we all know EULAs cannot be enforced legally.

If he had taken a product key that only enables you to activate one copy of windows, then yes that would be stealing as he deprived his workplace of that windows licence.

The work owns the VLK - agreed?

He took that VLK and used it at home. It's taking from work when you are not allowed to.

When you take something that you are not allowed to, isn't that a definition of stealing?

[Lechio]

Another party that will be a bust, like this one:

:laugh:

[slippery]

Ebay has pulled my listing of the party pack as well - after someone had done a "buy-it-now". I have spoken to a Ebay rep via web chat and sent an email, but I'm not shipping it til I know the $$ is going to stay in my account, my luck, I'll ship it and they'll give the guy a refund and I'll be out the $$ and the package, as well as have to pay listing and selling fees! :blink:

[FISKER_Q]

Get a clue, EULAs arent legally enforceable, he didnt steal a copy of windows and he didnt steal a windows licence, he used the VLK at home and by doing so broke the terms of the EULA, and since the EULA isnt legally enforceable his copy of windows isnt "illegal" nor can he go to jail for using it.

The term illegal isn't bound to a specific set of rules, moving your pawn backwards in chess constitutes an illegal move, that doesn't mean you're going to jail for it, but is nevertheless still an "illegal move", likewise the license and terms of the promotion makes his copy as well as his action illegal. The point is that not only did he do something Microsoft didn't want him to do, he did it totally unprovoked and in bad faith.

[Richard Hammond]

The work owns the VLK - agreed?

He took that VLK and used it at home. It's taking from work when you are not allowed to.

When you take something that you are not allowed to, isn't that a definition of stealing?

There are too many factors to know for sure, his name might be the sole name on the MSDN, Technet, whatever account, the it manager or his boss might have allowed him to take it home, its boring having people constantly jumped on and being called pirates and that they are doing illegal things.

[justmike]

MS Kate: If your organization has Work at Home rights and have issued a license, you should be fine.

So it looks like I'm OK as long as I do anything for work at home.

[Southern Patriot]

Ebay has pulled my listing of the party pack as well - after someone had done a "buy-it-now". I have spoken to a Ebay rep via web chat and sent an email, but I'm not shipping it til I know the $$ is going to stay in my account, my luck, I'll ship it and they'll give the guy a refund and I'll be out the $$ and the package, as well as have to pay listing and selling fees! :blink:

Just an FYI, I've never seen a payment get revoked because the auction got removed. Then again, I've only ever had a couple of listings removed, and only one of those had already sold and recieved payment. The worst that will likely happen is that you won't get feedback on it (since the item number is no longer valid).

[MasterC]

Why is everyone making such a big deal out of this?

That's what I'm trying to figure out :ermm:

Because I'm sure Microsoft will now think twice about doing anything like this again in the future

I doubt that they're going to stop doing promotions because one person made money off of something like this.

[neufuse Veteran]

Just an FYI, I've never seen a payment get revoked because the auction got removed. Then again, I've only ever had a couple of listings removed, and only one of those had already sold and recieved payment. The worst that will likely happen is that you won't get feedback on it (since the item number is no longer valid).

I can't wait to see the pictures you post to MS from your house party!

[Rudy]

I can't wait to see the pictures you post to MS from your house party!

What are they going to do? ask for it back.... lol

[iamwhoiam]

LOL. sue for not holding a party...

They won't.

Contests have rules that have to be followed or the prize is forfeit, either before or after the fact. But if I had offered a promotional deal like Microsoft had, and people took advantage of that and sold the promo material for personal gain, I'd drag it in to court just on the principle, and ask for labor and shipping costs back that it cost to send the prize out. At least he'd be stuck with court and lawyer fees on both sides.

[FISKER_Q]

What are they going to do? ask for it back.... lol

Well hopefully they'll blacklist the key :)

[zetachi]

hmmm so everyone is defending the innocent corporation microsoft? This one who seems to violate and break any and all rules that they don't like. Who steals and breaks copyrights left and right?

I signed up for the party pack, not knowing that they were sending a copy of Windows 7. But after I realized I was the only geek that would show up at my windows 7 party I forgot all about it. Then the party park came in the mail. I already have Technet and before I got that I pre-ordered 2 copies of the upgrade. If I sell those for a profit is everyone gonna bad mouth me for that?

Looks like my EBAY auction was pulled today also. So I sent off an Email to them with the OPs info. Will see what happens.

[jason13524]

Well hopefully they'll blacklist the key :)

Hopefully.