NSA backdoors in routers, not Windows 7

[toadeater]

Microsoft today denied that it has built a backdoor into Windows 7, a concern that surfaced yesterday after a senior National Security Agency (NSA) official testified before Congress that the agency had worked on the operating system.

Cisco, in fact, has built "lawful intercept" capabilities into its products, including its Internetworking Operating System (IOS) and its VoIP (Voice over Internet Protocol) lines. The term describes the process by which law enforcement agencies conduct electronic surveillance of circuit and packet-mode communications under authorization, such as electronic wiretap orders.

... Rotenberg still questioned NSA involvement. "The key point is that the NSA is not the right agency to promote computer security in the private sector," he argued. "The risks to end users are real -- the original NSA key escrow proposal, 'Clipper,' was a terrible idea -- and there is too little transparency about these arrangements."

The Clipper chip Rotenberg referred to was a project first proposed in 1993 that would offer ultra-strong encryption, but would allow access to encrypted data by law enforcement. The NSA proposal, however, raised a firestorm of protest and the idea was ultimately dropped.

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/914...or_in_Windows_7

[Mr. Gibs]

Here's something for the conspiracy theorists:

[panicswitched]

in honesty does it really surprise you? i mean it wouldnt surprise me if they could break encryption and blah blah blah and anyone can break into a windows system you dont need a back door to gain access to files on a disk boot into safe mode, or read the disk from another system yes remotely would be ideal but theres always ways through that

[toadeater]

in honesty does it really surprise you? i mean it wouldnt surprise me if they could break encryption and blah blah blah and anyone can break into a windows system you dont need a back door to gain access to files on a disk boot into safe mode, or read the disk from another system yes remotely would be ideal but theres always ways through that

No, it doesn't surprise me. But I'm wondering when the law was passed that gave Cisco permission to install backdoors for remote spying by intelligence agencies in their routers? I'm not sure many Americans are aware of this yet. You still see the government denying that it spies on domestic internet traffic and phone calls, because technically it is still illegal for them to do without a court order.

[Athlonite]

in honesty does it really surprise you? i mean it wouldnt surprise me if they could break encryption and blah blah blah and anyone can break into a windows system you dont need a back door to gain access to files on a disk boot into safe mode, or read the disk from another system yes remotely would be ideal but theres always ways through that

yeah realy try doing that to an encrypted HDD and see how far you get and safe mode doesn't just allow you to magically read encrypted files

[Lord Ba'al]

I would be seriously surprised if there *wasn't* a backdoor in Windows 7.

[Rigby]

If they think you're doing something wrong they can just go to your ISP, they don't have to break into your computer. If they want to see what's on your computer they visit you early in the morning with a search warrant and you get to discuss things with them over coffee and bacon.

[O.G]

I'm a conspiracy theorist and even I don't buy the NSA backdoor crap. The myth is as old as the hills (well Windows anyway).

Here's the thing, if the feds had the means to decrypt your pron. they wouldn't have needed to introduce laws to force you to give up your decryption key/password.

[markwolfe Veteran]

I'm a conspiracy theorist and even I don't buy the NSA backdoor crap. The myth is as old as the hills (well Windows anyway).

Here's the thing, if the feds had the means to decrypt your pron. they wouldn't have needed to introduce laws to force you to give up your decryption key/password.

Well, Cisco admits it.

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/tech/tk583/tk79...tocol_home.html

Is it really impossible for you to believe that such capabilities exist? Or do you believe Cisco when they admit it, but are convinced that Microsoft would never, ever do so?

I can't say Microsoft did. I cannot prove they did not. It is just a matter of what you believe, but evidence is there to show that at least one company has coded security breaching software to aid law enforcement. Not that much of a stretch to think that another company would also, is it?

[toadeater]

yeah realy try doing that to an encrypted HDD and see how far you get and safe mode doesn't just allow you to magically read encrypted files

Once they install a rootkit through the backdoor, if one existed, your encrypted disk would be wide open as soon as you accessed it. The keys could also be stolen from RAM. Doing something like that doesn't even require a backdoor, it only requires your machine to be infected with a rootkit.

[WastedJoker]

Who cares? Seriously, this is being done for our protection and I'm all for it. Sure, there's a chance these backdoors could be used incorrectly by the authorities but we have to place our trust in them to do the right thing.

[Rigby]

Who cares? Seriously, this is being done for our protection and I'm all for it. Sure, there's a chance these backdoors could be used incorrectly by the authorities but we have to place our trust in them to do the right thing.

[+John Teacake MVC]

It would make sense to put it in the router hardware rather than the OS because not everyone will be using Windows (7) but at some point along the line the traffic most likely will have passed some sort of Cisco equipment since Cisco route over 60% of the worlds network traffic.

[Stokkolm]

It would make sense to put it in the router hardware rather than the OS because not everyone will be using Windows (7) but at some point along the line the traffic most likely will have passed some sort of Cisco equipment since Cisco route over 60% of the worlds network traffic.

And Windows is on 95% of the worlds computers, it makes sense that they would want a backdoor there as well. You can never be too sneaky....

[toadeater]

And Windows is on 95% of the worlds computers, it makes sense that they would want a backdoor there as well. You can never be too sneaky....

They have repeatedly asked MS to put in a backdoor. So, yes, they did want a backdoor in Windows. Apparently there is no backdoor, but who knows? Look at how MS can disable Windows remotely and push silent updates. You notice that functionality was turned on and off remotely through patches and no one knew until it was too late.

I bet OS X has a backdoor. LOL.

And should we trust the US government? Hell no. Even without malicious intent (such as MK Ultra, Google it) or corporate crime, bureaucracy and incompetence can kill you or leave you bankrupt. E.g. hurricane Katrina. They're slowly taking away every last one of our rights. Why? Probably to keep us quiet, so we don't interfere. America isn't really a free country anymore, the federal government is out of control.

[Subject Delta]

News just in: It has now been announced that 40% of all Intel's water used on their production lines comes via the tears of African slave children.

Seriously though, these stories of backdoors in Windows are just nonsense. Windows is sold in hundreds of markets outside the US, and their customers simply wouldn't accept a product that is insecure, not to mention any vulnerability could be potentially exploited by a hacker, which would hit their reputation like a ton of bricks.

[Osiris]

News just in: It has now been announced that 40% of all Intel's water used on their production lines comes via the tears of African slave children.

Seriously though, these stories of backdoors in Windows are just nonsense. Windows is sold in hundreds of markets outside the US, and their customers simply wouldn't accept a product that is insecure, not to mention any vulnerability could be potentially exploited by a hacker, which would hit their reputation like a ton of bricks.

Exactly.

[markwolfe Veteran]

News just in: It has now been announced that 40% of all Intel's water used on their production lines comes via the tears of African slave children.

Seriously though, these stories of backdoors in Windows are just nonsense. Windows is sold in hundreds of markets outside the US, and their customers simply wouldn't accept a product that is insecure, not to mention any vulnerability could be potentially exploited by a hacker, which would hit their reputation like a ton of bricks.

How would anyone know? Other than rumors and speculation?

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

Also, the US government uses Windows, and a backdoor in it that's designed to allow their access, would also allow another nation to access it.

That and there's no evidence of a backdoor actually being in Windows.

[markwolfe Veteran]

Also, the US government uses Windows, and a backdoor in it that's designed to allow their access, would also allow another nation to access it.

That and there's no evidence of a backdoor actually being in Windows.

The US government also uses Linux. And routes traffic on Cisco routers.

What does that say? Absolutely nothing.

[Osiris]

IF there was a backdoor im pretty sure Apple and Linux or one of their many talented fanboys would be showing us proof of this and shouting it from the rooftops as the 2nd it was confirmed their respective markets would instantly increase. Putting a backdoor in an international piece of software like that would be a corporate disaster, private enterprise plus other nations, ie China would hardly tolerate it.

Not to mention the painstakingly obvious fact that the NSA of all agencies dont need to waste their time dicking around with whatever OS youre running. Its alot easier to go directly to your ISP and alot more fun to just drop in and scope out your PC when youre not home.

[CuCumber]

Windows is sold in hundreds of markets outside the US, and their customers simply wouldn't accept a product that is insecure, not to mention any vulnerability could be potentially exploited by a hacker, which would hit their reputation like a ton of bricks.

What comes to mind when I say Blaster, Sasser or WMF exploit? Maybe those hit their reputation but not sales.

IF there was a backdoor im pretty sure Apple and Linux or one of their many talented fanboys would be showing us proof of this and shouting it from the rooftops

WMF vulnerability was there a long time and no one noticed.

Putting a backdoor in an international piece of software like that would be a corporate disaster, private enterprise plus other nations, ie China would hardly tolerate it.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/as...ged-664059.html ;)

[ThePitt]

they mean not in windows 7 as any NT based OS? :p

[TonyLock]

The fact is, by UK and probably EU law, Microsoft has to and absolutely does provide a back door for the Gov.

The Back also is most hardware manufactures have to so so also. I know that even all MP3 players have a back door to them, basically, anything electronic that stores information has to be accessible by the Gov if you are ever arrested.

My friend works at the NSA and he works with the Office development team. He told me stories that would make some of you conspiracy nut actually go crazy!

[markwolfe Veteran]

The fact is, by UK and probably EU law, Microsoft has to and absolutely does provide a back door for the Gov.

...

While I think it is possible, there is no way we can be sure one way or another. So when you say they "absolutely do provide a back door", you really have no way of knowing.

...

My friend works at the NSA and he works with the Office development team. He told me stories that would make some of you conspiracy nut actually go crazy!

First, I kind of doubt your story. Second, if you do have a friend in the NSA telling you inside information, I can't say I would be impressed with your friend. Leaks are bad, right?