ClearType and Segoe UI - Why does Microsoft hate us?

[StarkWiz]

ClearType must be used on LCD monitor's only. If on CRT we must use Standard Font Smoothing.

Make sure that you have set the optimal resolution. According to monitor spec's. Also try the auto-set option on the monitor if you are not using DVI or HDMI cable.

[TokiToki]

Sorry should of said, I'm on XP. I was just wondering for the future.

Even for XP, Microsoft has two ClearType Tuner tools.

This one uses ActiveX

http://www.microsoft.com/typography/cleart...uner/step1.aspx

and here is the standalone powertoy.

http://www.microsoft.com/typography/ClearTypePowerToy.mspx

[Guest xiphi]

How is making the text more readable "ugly"?

Easy, the text is just horrible to look at with GDI++, and definitely isn't more readable than ClearType. Everything looks bold and blurry, as if the pixels are trying to come together to form a huge blob. I've tried GDI++ and it was buggy and horrible. It just doesn't compare to ClearType.

[LUTZIFER]

I've used cleartype since XP on CRT and LCD and text has looked better or perfect either way usin cleartype.

[Xilo]

I don't know about Windows 7, but for me I've been using GDI++ as I cannot stand ClearType's normal rendering. Everything looks so thin and on my 26" @ 1920x1200 everything is a pain to read and focus on.

Here is wikipedia with ClearType:

and here it is with GDI++:

Can ClearType on Windows 7 get any where near what GDI++ does?

What does military have to do with GDI and ClearType?

[theresiststance2003]

Hm.. Someone going by "WinClassicFan" using Tahoma without ClearType.. Why don't you just run Windows 98.

/sigh

[Xilo]

Hm.. Someone going by "WinClassicFan" using Tahoma without ClearType.. Why don't you just run Windows 98.

/sigh

It's the same type of people that upgrade and turn off everything that's new.

[Angel Blue01]

Until recently, I didn't know more than a couple of people who use LCD monitors, so I always set up the old fashioned grayscale AA on their PCs, I got complaints when they accidentally turned Cleartype on.

Cleartype is designed for LCD monitors, which Microsoft in Windows Vista/7 assumes you have.

[Rich in Texas]

Until recently, I didn't know more than a couple of people who use LCD monitors, so I always set up the old fashioned grayscale AA on their PCs, I got complaints when they accidentally turned Cleartype on.

Cleartype is designed for LCD monitors, which Microsoft in Windows Vista/7 assumes you have.

According to the IE Blog from Microsoft it's not just for LCD monitors:

"ClearType not only improves the reading experience on LCD displays, but also on Trinitron CRT displays where the color sub-pixel information is laid out in the same RGB pattern that we see on LCDs. Unlike when we shipped WinXP, LCD displays and Trinitron CRTs now dominate the market.

ClearType will be turned on by default in Windows Vista. Shipping ClearType on by default in IE7 gives non-Vista users of Internet Explorer the same improvement in reading online.

- Bill Hill"

From: http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2006/03/03/543181.aspx

Because cleartype uses blur to smooth fonts it also reduces contrast which can be problematic for users with severe astigmatism. I have keratoconus in both eyes with +11 diopter correction and must wear hard contacts in order to see at all. Clear type is not a solution because it makes blurring worse, not better. I'd rather have sharper fonts without AA than to be FORCED to use a product that makes my impairment worse. Its infuriating that Microsoft does provide an easy means to NOT use this "feature". (Wonder if a class action suit under the Americans with Disabilities Act would have an effect?)

A big thank you to the posters that have offered solutions. :)

If you're curious what its like to try to read with the cleartype "enhancement" on, go buy some reading glasses at +3 or better and try reading your monitor at your normal viewing distance. Not the same but close.

[_neutrino Veteran]

Honestly prefer Cleartype make it easier for me to see what is going on then again i wear Trifocals so im not the best judge as to vision.

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

ClearType doesn't blur anything, it just takes into consideration the sub-pixel elements of an LCD screen when deciding how to colour a pixel in.

Same as all the other OS's that do sub-pixel AA.

[zhangm Supervisor]

ClearType doesn't blur.

Educate yourself.

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2007/06/12.html

[Xilo]

Because cleartype uses blur to smooth fonts it also reduces contrast which can be problematic for users with severe astigmatism. I have keratoconus in both eyes with +11 diopter correction and must wear hard contacts in order to see at all. Clear type is not a solution because it makes blurring worse, not better. I'd rather have sharper fonts without AA than to be FORCED to use a product that makes my impairment worse. Its infuriating that Microsoft does provide an easy means to NOT use this "feature". (Wonder if a class action suit under the Americans with Disabilities Act would have an effect?)

That's what accessibility features are for. Why are you trying to read tiny text if your vision is that bad?

[Pon]

Font rendering is more complex than most of you are making it out to be. But basically, it's a combination of the design of the font glyphs themselves, the way the glyphs are hinted, and what antialiasing algorithms are used. This isn't even considering the vast differences in type and quality of displays and individual preference. Microsoft fonts are hinted to grid-fit the stems so that up to a certain em-size you get 1-pixel stems, then all of a sudden they bump up to 2-pixel stems, etc. This helps to ensure maximum contrast between the glyph and background, but this also causes problems at low resolutions, which is really what all computer displays are still limited to. For one thing, a bold font will have to have 2-pixel stems even at very low ppems, which forces all kinds of tradeoffs and is often quite ugly and difficult to read. For another, most fonts (even the ones designed by Microsoft specifically for low-resolution UI display) are designed with variations in stem width, which are important in creating unique, attractive, and readable forms, and which grid-fitting simply destroys.

Anyway, I'll just say that I prefer what some people call "blurry" font rendering, in that I find readability is more a function of faithfully rendering a well designed font rather than having maximal contrast at the expense of everything else (the latter apparently being Microsoft's philosophy). I use GDI++ with a font I hinted specifically for use with the GDI++ renderer for my eyes and on my display, and on my CRT it is far superior to anything Cleartype can produce:

It also scales extremely well, unlike mostly any font rendered with Cleartype. Once we get 200+ dpi displays these problems will mostly disappear, but until then most people are going to be stuck with what Microsoft gives them.

[WinClassicFan]

I'm hoping that Windows 8 will have a viable non-ClearType visual style, because in a few years OLED monitors are gonna start rolling out and ClearType will NOT work at all with them.

[cooky560 Veteran]

I don't have cleartype enabled on my LCD because I still think it looks bad

[XerXis]

how can you even take screenshots of cleartype, it uses subpixel rendering

[MagicAndre1981]

Have you ever used a WPF application? This looks really horrible. The normal GDI Cleartype is fine and I'm using it since 2001 and I like it.

[SuperDIY]

Hello Everyone,

I'd like to offer my solution, which, I believe, is an improvement upon that which phatphunky offered. phatphunky's solution is exactly the same as NoSegoe, which I explain in the next paragraph. However, I have figured out a way to use Tahoma at 8pts.

In Windows 7 and Vista, one has the option to change portions of the user interface (UI) to whatever font he or she desires. Unfortunately it is not an option to change certain parts of the interface. After having thoroughly searched for a solution to change all instances of the Windows 7 UI font from Segoe UI to Tahoma (the old default in previous versions of Windows), I eventually found Steve Halpern?s NoSegoe solution. It simply uses the Registry to specify Tahoma (or any other font of your choosing) an alternative to Segoe. More information on NoSegoe can be found here: http://steve.fsxtreme.com/blogs/2008/01/16...rtype-on-vista/. While this completely clears up the interface on screens that cannot properly render Cleartype and Segoe UI, things still look awkward. This is due to the fact that Segoe is generally used at a font size of 9pts, whereas Tahoma was always displayed at 8pts.

I was able to create my own solution to this problem by modifying the default Aero theme. The only changes made in my theme were to the font settings. All instances of Segoe UI where changed to Tahoma. Additionally, all 9pt instances (which constitutes most of them) were set to 8pts, the others were left at their default font size. The Aero theme was modified using Vista Style Builder (http://vistastylebuilder.com/).

My fixed Aero theme can be used by itself, however it will only replace instances of Segoe in the Windows user interface. External programs that are hard coded to use Segoe UI, even ones included with Windows 7, such as Calculator and Resource Monitor, will continue to use Segoe. For best results, and in order to completely eliminate Segoe UI, I recommend using NoSegoe in conjunction with the fixed Aero Theme. The Aero Theme (Fixed) package only works with Windows 7, however NoSegoe works with both Vista and 7.

Attachments (Alternative Links)

NoSegoe: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ADESI1N8 (Updated to fully remove Segoe UI)

Aero Theme (Fixed): http://www.megaupload.com/?d=EX347PJL

Hi Eric G.

Thank you very much for this COMPLETE SOLUTION. I've read an endless number of posts all over the web in a number of different forums of people having issues with Windows 7's fuzzy / blurry fonts and I've tried all kinds of different "solutions" - THIS IS THE FIRST COMPLETE SOLUTION. ALL the fonts EVERYWHERE are clear - for the first time in weeks I can actually work on Windows 7 without having a headache within 5 minutes.

Message to all the people who do not understand and do not want to understand what we are fuzzing about: Do yourself the favour by installing these FIXES and start to enjoy Windows 7 for the first time - I dare you.

Well done and thanks again Eric G.

SuperDIY

[Eric G.]

Hi SuperDYI,

You're welcome. Unfortunately the files in that post are outdated. Since that posting I have fixed some minor issues and added support for Windows Vista. I would have edited the post to reflect this, however too much time had past and Neowin no longer allowed me to perform the edit. The following is what I have posted on other forums:

---

Aero Theme (Fixed) Outdated

I have created an installer for what I previously referred to as "Aero Theme (Fixed)". I would highly recommend that anyone interested in it now use the installer for Windows Aero (Tahoma Font) instead.

Windows Aero (Tahoma Font) has four important improvements over Aero Theme (Fixed):

1. Now supports Windows Vista in addition to Windows 7.
   
2. All Aero-based themes automatically use Windows Aero (Tahoma Font). Previously, only the default theme took advantage of the font changes. If desired, Windows Aero (Tahoma Font) can still be installed along-side the standard Windows Aero, however this is not supported by the installer and, as such, must be done manually.
   
3. Certain portions of the Windows interface no longer render incorrectly. This issue was due to the fact that I attempted to rename all of the files that aero.msstyles relies on but missed one. In my own experiences, it only affected the address bar in Firefox, but there are surely other programs that were negatively impacted as well.
   
4. The Active Title Bar no longer needs to be set to Trebuchet MS at size 10. This setting is now built into aero.msstyles.

More information on Windows Aero (Tahoma Font), as well as downloads, can be found here.

---

While I'm happy that you enjoy my fix, I've actually found that it isn't necessary at all on most monitors. I've seen many monitors on which Segoe UI looks great with ClearType on. For the most part, whether or not you need Windows Aero (Tahoma Font) depends on the quality of your monitor, though it does also rely on one's sensitivity to the issue if the monitor in question isn't the greatest. It's just not for everyone. Thanks for vouching for me though, I appreciate it.

[LiquidSolstice]

GDI++ only seems to make everything ridiculously bold to me. Why would I want it?

[Gocom]

GDI++ only seems to make everything ridiculously bold to me. Why would I want it?

It doesn't make text bold. It's highly configurable font renderer. It only makes everything bold if you tell it to.

As a programmer staring code for 8 hours everyday, GDI++ has made my life so much easier for years.

And I don't use it to make the text boldier, just bit smoother by using old grayscale smoothing, increasing saturation and then decreasing the weight. Looks almost exactly like slightly configured ClearType, with the expectation that my eyes don't get as tired as with ClearType's subpixel.

To me: what I have now > Mac OS's smoothing > ClearType.

[SkyDX]

I also use GDI++ and couldn't live without it! Now I just need to replace every hint of Segoe UI with my favorite all time font, Tekton Pro^^ Seems like I have to buy Vista Style Builder :pinch:

[LiquidSolstice]

It doesn't make text bold. It's highly configurable font renderer. It only makes everything bold if you tell it to.

As a programmer staring code for 8 hours everyday, GDI++ has made my life so much easier for years.

And I don't use it to make the text boldier, just bit smoother by using old grayscale smoothing, increasing saturation and then decreasing the weight. Looks almost exactly like slightly configured ClearType, with the expectation that my eyes don't get as tired as with ClearType's subpixel.

To me: what I have now > Mac OS's smoothing > ClearType.

Hm. Perhaps I spoke too soon then. Let me give it a shot and see what I can configure.

[Ve7878]

When I first bought Vista I disabled cleartype for the most part, but then I decided to try it with it enabled and soon got used to it, in fact I don't like any Windows machine without it now.