Microsoft on copy and paste in Windows Phone 7 Series: 'people don'

[zagor]

Even Microsoft can't turn a ugly frog (WP7) into a prince (iPhone).

Alice in Wonderland...

[Petvas]

The problem that I see is that Microsoft is following Apple's footsteps. The majority of people don't really care about multitasking and copy & paste, I agree. What about the IT people? What about power users? Why should "computer idiots" dictate what features my smartphone will have? It isn't my fault that these people do not understand a thing about technology.

Having said that I believe that technology should serve everybody. It should be made available to everyone on this world but the way Microsoft and Apple are doing it is by sacrificing features really important to power users that think about technology, or work as IT Pros. I find it really a shame that this is the case and I can also understand why Microsoft chose to go this way. I totally understand but I would also expect from Microsoft that they wouldn't abandon their power users...Microsoft please don't treat me as an idiot!

Apple made touch interfaces an absolute must when using a phone, something that I don't find always good. A touch interface by its own nature is limited and offers very few options in how to do things on the device. Companies should start thinking if Touch is the way to go here and if yes, they should try finding ways to offer advanced features even on a touch interface...

Even if Windows Phone 7 Series doesn't offer multitasking and Copy & Paste, I could buy it because of all the cool stuff Microsoft has developed. I love the Zune experience and (I admit it) I like Microsoft.

The decisions they took were disappointing and will probably make me wait for the second or third generation of the OS before I even consider buying it...

[techbeck]

I dont use copy/paste much if at all. The only reason I bitched at Apple was because they are notorious in determining and controlling what the user wants.

[George P Global Moderator]

This is an interesting read, and hate him or like him, Paul does have more insider info than others do.

Link

Seeing how early we are into the WP7 builds, not even beta technically, then lots of this stuff could come back in with the feedback they're getting now.

I personally think that c/p had to be put on hold so they could get this new smart-text selection thing working right. The one they talk about that automatically picks up urls, phone numbers, addresses and so on. Once the more complex thing is out of the way, then x/p can be added. AND I might add, you can't just bolt it on like how I've heard Android does it, which doesn't even work that great it seems. It's gotta fit right with the rest of the UI and the other text features as well.

Lots of feedback like what they're getting already is good, and this is why they're spilling the beens 6 months ahead of phones coming out, go to the MS phone blog and post away, contrary to what the haters may say MS does listen!

[clotz2000]

I agree with alot of you. it's not like it's 1995 and the technology hasn't been developed for it yet, it's a simple thing to implement. I use Copy & Paste almost every day on my Blackberry & iPhone

And Copy & Paste is very Annoying on the BlackBerry

[hdood]

I personally think that c/p had to be put on hold so they could get this new smart-text selection thing working right. The one they talk about that automatically picks up urls, phone numbers, addresses and so on.

Can someone explain what is so new and revolutionary about this? I ask because as it is, it sounds like something an intern could add to the text control in an afternoon.

[George P Global Moderator]

Can someone explain what is so new and revolutionary about this? I ask because as it is, it sounds like something an intern could add to the text control in an afternoon.

Wow, I just love how people think it's so easy to implement something that sounds/looks easy to do. We're not talking about something that's part of one app, it's part of the core OS and should work accross many things. I even think there's a API so 3rd party apps can use it. It takes work.

If you think one intern can do it in one afternoon, then damn, you must be some super programming wiz.

[ahhell]

How many more threads on this copy and paste thing do we really need? :rolleyes:

Wny not wait and see what MS comes up with first? The OS launch is probably 6 months away if not longer. That's a lot of damn time to add stuff.

[Petvas]

I have been thinking a lot about the things we complain about and I am trying to understand Microsoft's reasoning. Their decision to implement "smart multitasking" I can fully understand. Copy & Paste is the thing hurting more and I will have to wait to see how it is implemented the way Microsoft described. I am sure that Copy & Paste will eventually come and I am really willing to try a Windows Phone 7 series device. The things I like about it are:

• the new UI
  
• the concept of Hubs
  
• Zune integration
  
• multiple Exchange accounts support
  
• Games
  

At the moment the positives outweight the negatives, so I decided to wait till the first devices come to market. I am not deleting any of my original posts as the showed my disappointment for the lack of features many of us think to be essential...Maybe we are thinking too PC like...

[hdood]

Wow, I just love how people think it's so easy to implement something that sounds/looks easy to do.

I have implemented both phone number, e-mail address and url parsing in the past. It's a few minutes of writing regexps. Granted, Microsoft's might be slightly more sophisticated, but I am genuinely curious as to what makes this such an amazing new feature.

We're not talking about something that's part of one app, it's part of the core OS and should work accross many things. I even think there's a API so 3rd party apps can use it. It takes work.

Or... It's simply part of the standard edit control, which means it instantly becomes part of all applications with no extra work. You're trying to make it sound more complicated than it really is, without explaining what makes it different. So come on, what's new here?

I would certainly agree that it's a feature that might be more useful to people than cut&paste, but that it's so complex that there's no time for anything else, that I don't buy. If that's true then Microsoft needs to take a serious look at what resources they are assigning to one of their flagship products.

[Elliott]

Wow, I just love how people think it's so easy to implement something that sounds/looks easy to do. We're not talking about something that's part of one app, it's part of the core OS and should work accross many things. I even think there's a API so 3rd party apps can use it. It takes work.

If you think one intern can do it in one afternoon, then damn, you must be some super programming wiz.

Like hdood said, string parsing to find certain data (like email addresses, phone numbers, and URLs) is not hard at all. There are even RFC standard regexps available to make it easy. Calendar event and real address detection (like Apple has in OS X) is harder, but still not something that should stop up a whole team from implementing copy and paste.

[drunkgoat]

I use Copy & Paste a lot on my windows mobile 6.5.5 device. This is a huge mistake by Microsoft in my mind. Another strike against WM7, I'm very disappointed that they are dumbing WM7 down to Apple's level.

[0sit0]

Wow, I just love how people think it's so easy to implement something that sounds/looks easy to do. We're not talking about something that's part of one app, it's part of the core OS and should work accross many things. I even think there's a API so 3rd party apps can use it. It takes work.

If you think one intern can do it in one afternoon, then damn, you must be some super programming wiz.

Even cell phones from 1999 were able to copy and paste! It takes time but it is a standard functionality that most people expect from a smart phone. I don't get why people defend the lack of functionality... it just doesn't make sense.

[zagor]

Like hdood said, string parsing to find certain data (like email addresses, phone numbers, and URLs) is not hard at all. There are even RFC standard regexps available to make it easy. Calendar event and real address detection (like Apple has in OS X) is harder, but still not something that should stop up a whole team from implementing copy and paste.

I wonder what arguments you used to defend apple when they didn't have copy&paste implemented in several iphone os generations. I am sure you had some brilliant arguments :-)

[George P Global Moderator]

I have implemented both phone number, e-mail address and url parsing in the past. It's a few minutes of writing regexps. Granted, Microsoft's might be slightly more sophisticated, but I am genuinely curious as to what makes this such an amazing new feature.

Or... It's simply part of the standard edit control, which means it instantly becomes part of all applications with no extra work. You're trying to make it sound more complicated than it really is, without explaining what makes it different. So come on, what's new here?

I would certainly agree that it's a feature that might be more useful to people than cut&paste, but that it's so complex that there's no time for anything else, that I don't buy. If that's true then Microsoft needs to take a serious look at what resources they are assigning to one of their flagship products.

You're missing the point. For there to be a standard edit control for every app to use someone still has to write the code/APIs from scratch. I don't know how basic or complex what MS is doing is, but to say that it's so simple that it could be done in one afternoon? That I don't buy.

You bring up how you implemented it before, yes, because there was a library you could use for your app. Who had to sit and work that out though? This being a new OS one could take a wild guess that MS had to write up it's own regex engine from scratch. Now do you think such things are done in one afternoon as well? Honestly?

Like hdood said, string parsing to find certain data (like email addresses, phone numbers, and URLs) is not hard at all. There are even RFC standard regexps available to make it easy. Calendar event and real address detection (like Apple has in OS X) is harder, but still not something that should stop up a whole team from implementing copy and paste.

No one has said they're not implementing it, my point was that it's of lower priority compared to the new feature they've talked about. It's been said before that they're looking at putting it in, if it makes it in before RTM or comes after is a different subject. They've explained why it's taken a back seat in priority over other things at this point, and that is that it's not used by the majority of phone users out there.

And before you all keep beating around about how "easy" it is to add in, just look at how it works on other OS's that have it, Android has it, BB has it, and it's annoying to use in both. What does that say? Poor job? Not enough time to make it work better? What's the reason there?

[Elliott]

I wonder what arguments you used to defend apple when they didn't have copy&paste implemented in several iphone os generations. I am sure you had some brilliant arguments :-)

I was never a fan of them omitting copy and paste until iPhone OS 3.0, but I understand that being the first to create well-executed copy and paste on an all-touch interface isn't exactly easy (they had no prior art to look at). But hey, now that Apple did it, Microsoft has some inspiration, so not having it in their brand new, flagship mobile OS is a little weird.

And before you all keep beating around about how "easy" it is to add in, just look at how it works on other OS's that have it, Android has it, BB has it, and it's annoying to use in both. What does that say? Poor job? Not enough time to make it work better? What's the reason there?

Copy and paste isn't easy to add in. The "awesome, new" "Look! Phone numbers are magically turned into links!" thing is easy, however. That's not what's holding Copy and Paste up, contrary to what you might believe. I just don't understand why, when the iPhone has a great copy and paste implementation, Microsoft just doesn't do something similar. It's been done. Redo it.

[____]

Lack of copy/paste and the restrictions on isolated storage are complete deal breakers for me. What's the point of a smart device if all the applications have to be self-contained. The message they were sending at MIX was quite scary, they kept talking about it like the whole purpose of this platform is to enable developers to create even more crappy front ends for web services that can already be used for free through the included browser (although WP7S has the advantage in this regard because the browser is crappy enough that it might not be an option). At least I got a free T-Shirt out of the community site, hopefully it'll sell well on eBay.

[zagor]

I was never a fan of them omitting copy and paste until iPhone OS 3.0, but I understand that being the first to create well-executed copy and paste on an all-touch interface isn't exactly easy (they had no prior art to look at). But hey, now that Apple did it, Microsoft has some inspiration, so not having it in their brand new, flagship mobile OS is a little weird.

Copy and paste isn't easy to add in. The "awesome, new" "Look! Phone numbers are magically turned into links!" thing is easy, however. That's not what's holding Copy and Paste up, contrary to what you might believe. I just don't understand why, when the iPhone has a great copy and paste implementation, Microsoft just doesn't do something similar. It's been done. Redo it.

They don't need any inspiration from apple. They already have copy&paste implemented in their current mobile os. They need to copy themselves!

[carmatic]

I personally think that c/p had to be put on hold so they could get this new smart-text selection thing working right. ?The one they talk about that automatically picks up urls, phone numbers, addresses and so on.

this is no better than those spambot email miners , i think... if a human wants information, it will be taken manually, otherwise its nothing but another script running on the internet...

[Tech Star]

All the people, or most, defending the decision to remove it from the OS were the ones bashing Apple for not having it. What a world we live in. :sleep:

[Wanderermy]

It's like this

Microsoft not have stuff when released and add it later, people are like what **** should been there in the first place, MS FAIL!

Apple not have stuff when released and add it later and charge for it, people are like that is the most revolutionary **** I've ever seen, ALL HAIL STEVE JOBS!

[Tech Star]

It's like this

Microsoft not have stuff when released and add it later, people are like what **** should been there in the first place, MS FAIL!

Apple not have stuff when released and add it later and charge for it, people are like that is the most revolutionary **** I've ever seen, ALL HAIL STEVE JOBS!

No.

Microsoft and Microsoft fanboy's bashed on Apple for not having Copy and Paste in their OS. So now that they don't have Copy and Paste in their OS, it is a huge Fail.

Apple didn't have it, they were bashed for that. They added it, FOR FREE for the iPhone. No one hailed Steve Jobs that it came out. People got excited that it was finally being added after being bagged on by Micosoft and Microsoft fanboys.

[Wanderermy]

No.

Microsoft and Microsoft fanboy's bashed on Apple for not having Copy and Paste in their OS. So now that they don't have Copy and Paste in their OS, it is a huge Fail.

Apple didn't have it, they were bashed for that. They added it, FOR FREE for the iPhone. No one hailed Steve Jobs that it came out. People got excited that it was finally being added after being bagged on by Micosoft and Microsoft fanboys.

But Apple fanboys are basing Microsoft right now when they did not have C/P when it iPhone released, how ironic is that? Are they that short of a memory?

And iTouch user paid like $20 to get C/P.

Beside the damn OS is not final yet so who knows.

[Tech Star]

But Apple fanboys are basing Microsoft right now when they did not have C/P when it iPhone released, how ironic is that? Are they that short of a memory?

And iTouch user paid like $20 to get C/P.

Beside the damn OS is not final yet so who knows.

Why do you think that is? Because they were bashed for not having it and NOW the tables have turned and it's their turn to do some bashing.

Wrong again. iPod Touch owners paid $10 for it, when it was released. Now, I have no idea how much it is.

No OS is EVER final. There will be updates for it and another version released always. OS 4.0 will be announced soon, hopefully, and that's the next major step in the iPhone OS.

[Wanderermy]

Why do you think that is? Because they were bashed for not having it and NOW the tables have turned and it's their turn to do some bashing.

Wrong again. iPod Touch owners paid $10 for it, when it was released. Now, I have no idea how much it is.

No OS is EVER final. There will be updates for it and another version released always. OS 4.0 will be announced soon, hopefully, and that's the next major step in the iPhone OS.

Relatively speaking, if you put it that way, WM7 have not released to the public yet.

And you are wrong on the iTouch. When released it came with Firmware 1.0. Then 2.0 come out, $10. Then 3.0, another $10.