Meet Firefox 4.0.1

[SkyDX]

Direct3D layers have been enabled by default for a month or so, you don't need the MOZ_ACCELERATED environment variable any more.

I know that much but I was too lazy to remove it :p Anything I should make sure in about:config before I remove it so I can be sure that D3D is still on?

EDIT: just updated to newest nightly and enabled D3D10...... holy damn fast :woot:

[rawr_boy81]

I know that much but I was too lazy to remove it :p Anything I should make sure in about:config before I remove it so I can be sure that D3D is still on?

EDIT: just updated to newest nightly and enabled D3D10...... holy damn fast :woot:

Damn with all the sexy stuff happening on Windows I wonder whether I should abandon Mac OS X and go to the dark side :(

Once again Mozilla developers demonstrating they don't give a crap about Mac users by their decision to work on and enable layers for DirectX before OpenGL :(

[Dazog]

Damn with all the sexy stuff happening on Windows I wonder whether I should abandon Mac OS X and go to the dark side :(

Once again Mozilla developers demonstrating they don't give a crap about Mac users by their decision to work on and enable layers for DirectX before OpenGL :(

You are the minority.

[Darrian]

Damn with all the sexy stuff happening on Windows I wonder whether I should abandon Mac OS X and go to the dark side :(

Once again Mozilla developers demonstrating they don't give a crap about Mac users by their decision to work on and enable layers for DirectX before OpenGL :(

When Firefox started there wasn't even a Mac version to support. Now there is and they are obviously working very hard to make it as good as they can on the Mac, but you can't expect Mac to get any the "sexy stuff" first when it's primarily a Windows and Linux app. You'll get all the features eventually, but we all know how slow Firefox development is, and I imagine it's even worse now that they're developing for Mac as well. There's really no reason to abandon OS X, though, if that's your OS of choice, especially just for a web browser. Supposedly there are plenty of Windows emulation options available, including running Windows apps within the OS X environment. Working on DirectX before OpenGL doesn't mean Mozilla doesn't give a crap about Mac, though it does imply that perhaps they don't give a crap about OpenGL. There's a reason why the majority of PC games are for Windows. (That doesn't mean I personally prefer DirectX over OpenGL, but apparently most developers do. I once thought That OpenGL would eventually overthrow DirectX and I would see most games being released on multiple OSes, but it's been almost 20 years now and it still hasn't happened.)

[rawr_boy81]

When Firefox started there wasn't even a Mac version to support. Now there is and they are obviously working very hard to make it as good as they can on the Mac, but you can't expect Mac to get any the "sexy stuff" first when it's primarily a Windows and Linux app. You'll get all the features eventually, but we all know how slow Firefox development is, and I imagine it's even worse now that they're developing for Mac as well. There's really no reason to abandon OS X, though, if that's your OS of choice, especially just for a web browser. Supposedly there are plenty of Windows emulation options available, including running Windows apps within the OS X environment. Working on DirectX before OpenGL doesn't mean Mozilla doesn't give a crap about Mac, though it does imply that perhaps they don't give a crap about OpenGL. There's a reason why the majority of PC games are for Windows. (That doesn't mean I personally prefer DirectX over OpenGL, but apparently most developers do. I once thought That OpenGL would eventually overthrow DirectX and I would see most games being released on multiple OSes, but it's been almost 20 years now and it still hasn't happened.)

The issue with Firefox and Mac OS X rather than being a cause is but one of a long list of issues I've had with third party developers and their incessant whining about Microsofts monopoly (such as Firefox whining to the EU) but through their crap software on Mac further entrench the monopoly further. You'd think that there is sufficient motivation to making their Mac version worth while but even a cracker under their backside seems to do nothing - oh, and Firefox on *NIX is no walk in the path either but that is due to a whole set of other considerations.

As for OpenGL, thats an issue caused by the entrenched status quo of CAD vendors not wanting OpenGL to move to a "object creation would become atomic, using templates to define the properties of an object which would be created with a single function call" (from the Wikipedia article) which unfortunately has lent it to a bias towards CAD producers with gamers being given the short end of the stick. I don't see things improving any time soon other than the Mac user base increasing and software vendors having to swallow their pride and learn how to use OpenGL properly instead of the half baked approach they're doing today.

I'd say that my hope is in the Webkit corner at this stage especially with Webkit2 in development with process separation baked right into the API itself - I really do want Firefox on Mac OS X to be really good if for no other reason that it puts a fire under the backside of Apple developers to improve Safari. If the only viable browser on Mac OS X is Safari then it doesn't speak too highly as to the future development of Safari beyond the current status quo.

[bogas04]

Mozilla's aim is to innovate and improve the web , and thus , they need a platform used by most of the ppl , which comes to be Windows (90+% share :o )

So obviously , they would first think of Windows version , and then of the latter.

Anyways , 17 blocking bugs left :D We MIGHT see Beta 7 next week

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

Damn with all the sexy stuff happening on Windows I wonder whether I should abandon Mac OS X and go to the dark side :(

Once again Mozilla developers demonstrating they don't give a crap about Mac users by their decision to work on and enable layers for DirectX before OpenGL :(

OpenGL Layers were landed and enabled before D3D10 layers were landed (they still aren't enabled)

D3D Layers landed earlier simply because they were the simpler API, OpenGL Layers isn't just for OS X (they're using them on mobile devices (Android, etc.), so they had to write lots of support code)

[XP_2600]

Guys, excuse me, do you find the performance is acceptable ? When the browser call Java or flash player it takes over 90% of the processor!

[Darrian]

There's a bit of a difference between performance and resource usage. Performance pretty much equates to speed and responsiveness, and honestly I think performance absolutely sucks at the moment, but I have hope that by the time it's final it'll be significantly improved. I really don't care how much of my CPU or RAM it uses. 90% of your CPU is more than acceptable if Firefox is the active program (although it doesn't; it fluctuates between 5%-45% for me, what kind of CPU do you have?!), it shouldn't use nearly so much if it's in the background. However, I have a fairly decent CPU, so when it is active I expect it to run fairly decently, and it doesn't at the moment. It's test software, if you want release-quality you should go back to 3.6.

[iwod]

@ Darrian, are you using lastest nightlies?

[Darrian]

Yep

[Knife Party]

Mozilla's aim is to innovate and improve the web , and thus , they need a platform used by most of the ppl , which comes to be Windows (90+% share :o )

So obviously , they would first think of Windows version , and then of the latter.

Anyways , 17 blocking bugs left :D We MIGHT see Beta 7 next week

haha, let's hope so

[iwod]

Well between Beta 6 and current nightlies there are already a very noticeable performance improvement in Startup, response time, JS speed etc. I dont know how you define suck, but it is definitely not slow anymore. Compartment GC is definitely working as switch between my home Nighties Build and Work 's Beta 6 environment i notice the pause between tabs in beta 6. It may not be as fast as Chrome and Opera in many cases, but it is not that far behind.

Chrome and Opera scales VERY well with high end machines. i.e If you have a fast computer and lots of memory Chrome is going to perform better with wider margin of advantage then Firefox. However at the low end Firefox does very well, if not better then Chrome.

[Darrian]

It's very difficult not to perform better than Firefox ATM, it's by far the slowest browser, even after all these supposed speed improvements.

Also, I'm actually using yesterday's build still, because today's build crashes almost immediately upon startup. I think it's a problem with Flash, because simple sites (like Mozilla's FTP site, thankfully) didn't crash it. Oh, well, maybe tomorrow will be better.

[rawr_boy81]

It's very difficult not to perform better than Firefox ATM, it's by far the slowest browser, even after all these supposed speed improvements.

Also, I'm actually using yesterday's build still, because today's build crashes almost immediately upon startup. I think it's a problem with Flash, because simple sites (like Mozilla's FTP site, thankfully) didn't crash it. Oh, well, maybe tomorrow will be better.

What operating system are you running it on?

[Darrian]

LOL. There's more than one OS? Win 7 x64 Ultimate, of course :D

(it should be noted that I'm also using 64-bit tinderbox builds)

[ViperAFK]

It's very difficult not to perform better than Firefox ATM, it's by far the slowest browser, even after all these supposed speed improvements.

Also, I'm actually using yesterday's build still, because today's build crashes almost immediately upon startup. I think it's a problem with Flash, because simple sites (like Mozilla's FTP site, thankfully) didn't crash it. Oh, well, maybe tomorrow will be better.

I couldn't open the latest build at all it just crashed before it opened. But I fixed it by using the 32 bit build rather than the 64 bit one.

[Darrian]

Yeah, I'm patient enough to wait a day. It's easier after waiting a week for a new build, which I thought was ridiculous since they only typically put out one build a day anyway.

[iwod]

1. I.E is 10 times worst, and slowest,

2. Dont have experience with 64bit Builds but 32 bits builds is working very well.

[Udedenkz]

However at the low end Firefox does very well, if not better then Chrome.

False.

This site scrolls super-smooth in SRware Iron 6 (Chromium 6 + Fast Adbloock) on an Intel Atom N270.

While, with Firefox it is a painful experience without D2D and D3D10 layers.

Whilst Firefox 4.0 b7-pre beats IE9 in performance by a large margin outside of IE9 tests (BS), Chrome 6 beats FF4.0 b7pre (w. D2D and D3D10 layers) by a noticable margin in real world speed. Don't forget that Firefox is about 3-4 times slower without D2D and D3DX layers.

EDIT: Forgot to mention, performance was better before.

[ObiWanToby]

Firefox really isn't that smooth in scrolling. Chrome does not properly support touch either.

I can't wait for this generation of browsers to hit rtm. I am tired of using betas, but the current final versions just do not offer as nice of an experience.

Also, is it possible for a browser to cause a blue screen? I've had the same OS install for a good couple of months and had my first this morning. I enabled the layers.use-d3d10. Very strange coincidence.

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

Since they're using the GPU more and more, it's certainly possible they're hitting driver bugs that cause the BSOD.

Mozilla are running into driver and card issues so much that they've implemented a block list on Windows and OS X.

Edit: I should clarify, I'm talking about browsers in general in the first paragraph.

[rawr_boy81]

Since they're using the GPU more and more, it's certainly possible they're hitting driver bugs that cause the BSOD.

Mozilla are running into driver and card issues so much that they've implemented a block list on Windows and OS X.

Edit: I should clarify, I'm talking about browsers in general in the first paragraph.

True, problems started appearing when Flash started to be GPU accelerated and many bugs were found in many of the drivers that are out there. Some of the results were weird inconsistencies whilst others resulted in BSOD's. This probably explained why Microsoft didn't move their bundled applications from GDI+ to Direct2D but with that being said had they dogfooded their software during the development phase they would have uncovered these bugs relatively quickly rather than it being several months after the release of Windows 7. Apple on the other hand does a great job at dogfooding - they develop and API and use it straight away so that the API reflects a real world situation rather than something designed in abstract that doesn't actually address a problem the way programmers would address it.

[iwod]

False.

This site scrolls super-smooth in SRware Iron 6 (Chromium 6 + Fast Adbloock) on an Intel Atom N270.

While, with Firefox it is a painful experience without D2D and D3D10 layers.

Whilst Firefox 4.0 b7-pre beats IE9 in performance by a large margin outside of IE9 tests (BS), Chrome 6 beats FF4.0 b7pre (w. D2D and D3D10 layers) by a noticable margin in real world speed. Don't forget that Firefox is about 3-4 times slower without D2D and D3DX layers.

EDIT: Forgot to mention, performance was better before.

And that is a scrolling specific issues. I am referring to Firefox using lower amount of memory, and CPU usage. For single Tab, Chrome may well does better then Firefox, once you open multiple tabs, Its Multi Thread, Multi process architecture really hurts low end machines.

[XP_2600]

Firefox must know something, any features without performance are meaningless, i started to think of it like M$ OS which turned to be a huge garbage as they can't take the decision to start from scratch, so they keep update their old code.