Oracle sues Google over Android operating system

[Quattrone]

In a clash of two Silicon Valley titans, Oracle said Thursday that it has filed a federal copyright lawsuit alleging that Google's popular Android operating system was built on Oracle's Java software without permission.

Android, which was first released in late 2008, is used by several computer manufacturers as the operating system that runs smartphones and other computing devices. Oracle's lawsuit, filed in the U.S. District Court for Northern California, accuses Google of infringing on patents and copyrights that Oracle acquired when it bought Sun Microsystems earlier this year.

Google had no immediate comment.

But one analyst called the lawsuit surprising because Sun, whose engineers developed Java, decided several years ago to release key elements of the widely used programming language under an open-source license which allows others to use it freely.

"Java is essential for Android," said Al Hilwa, a software expert at the IDC research firm. "But a big chunk of Java is open-source. Since Android has been out there for more than a year, most people would have expected they were in compliance with whatever license terms apply."

Android's growth in the first half of 2010 has been enormous, with Google CEO Eric Schmidt saying last week that more than 200,000 smartphones powered by Google's mobile operating system are being activated around the world each day. Gartner, a prominent research firm, said Thursday that Android is

now the most popular smartphone operating system in the United States, and is on the verge of becoming the second most popular in the world, closing in on Research In Motion's Blackberry.

All four major U.S. wireless carriers now offer smartphones powered by Android,.

While just 1.8 percent of the world's smartphones were running Android in the second quarter of 2009, Android now has 17.2 percent of the worldwide smartphone share, or 10.6 million phones, just behind RIM's 18.2 percent and 11.2 million phones, according to the Gartner report. Nokia's Symbian remains the world most popular smartphone operating system at 41.2 percent of the global market, but both Android and Apple's iPhone are rapidly eating into the market share of Nokia, RIM and Microsoft Windows Mobile phones.

Android's growth means more search revenue for Google, as consumers use their smartphones to search the web. Google does not break out its revenue from mobile search, but Google searches from Android devices grew by 300 percent during the first half of 2010, Jonathan Rosenberg, a Google senior vice president, recently told analysts.

The first Android phone, the T-Moble G1, went on sale in October 2008, and Android phones are now available in about 50 different countries.

Source

[nub]

Ahhh my eyes

[spartyjohnson]

Anybody not see this coming? Many people predicted Oracle would run Java and other free technologies from Sun.

[.Neo]

Good for them! :laugh:

[Phenom II]

I like to read from Post 2 onwards to get the jist of what the main post says when it is too long and painful :laugh:

[primexx]

damnit oracle

[Growled Member]

But one analyst called the lawsuit surprising because Sun, whose engineers developed Java, decided several years ago to release key elements of the widely used programming language under an open-source license which allows others to use it freely.

I guess now Oracle is planning to take it back?

[+Warwagon MVC]

Oh blah. If Android had flopped, Oracle wouldn't have given a ****. But now that it's successful Oricle wants in on the action.

[nullie]

Shame on Oracle.

[techbeck]

Oh blah. If Android had flopped, Oracle wouldn't have given a ****. But how that's successful they want in on the action.

Exactly...and how much do you even here about Oracle anymore? Seems to me Oracle just wants to be "heard"

[monkey13]

Exactly...and how much do you even here about Oracle anymore? Seems to me Oracle just wants to be "heard"

Oracle are still doing well. All the key factors for them (revenue, equity, etc) are up.

Why Android? What is special about the Java implementation in it that warrants a lawsuit and why are other smartphones that have Java OK?

Also Google don't make money from Android. It's open source as well.

[HawkMan]

So I suppose everyone who now opposes this action where Google/android uses a non standard Java VM(it's not even a true VM) Also thought Sun where total a-holes when they sued MS for the MS Java WM ?

otherwise it'd be a bit hypocritical, since this violation of the Java TOS is significantly worse than the MS one.

[hdood]

Why Android? What is special about the Java implementation in it that warrants a lawsuit and why are other smartphones that have Java OK?

I suppose the difference is that others support actual (Oracle) Java platforms like J2ME. Android does not. Android does not implement any standard Java platform, and is not even capable of running Java bytecode.

It's essentially a custom platform that just happens to use the Java programming language (with support for some standard Java libraries.) Software written for Oracle's Java platforms can't run on Android, and vice versa. They are incompatible, both in source code and executable form.

Also Google don't make money from Android. It's open source as well.

Google makes plenty of money from it. Profit is the sole reason Android exists.

[HawkMan]

Why Android? What is special about the Java implementation in it that warrants a lawsuit and why are other smartphones that have Java OK?

Also Google don't make money from Android. It's open source as well.

Because android doesn't run Java apps. It turns dex files, in dalvik. dalvik is a special java "runtime" that runs the pre compiled dex files on Android and doesn't support the full java spec. it's written specifically for Android and uses the java language for the code, but doesn't run java apps. hence it doesn't follow the rules you agree to when using the java language or writing a java interpreter as they're supposed to be fully cross platform and support all the java language.

Google should have done the right thing and just made dalvik use their own special language instead of java and they'd be safe. But as usual google just plows ahead ignoring other peoples copyrights and hard work.

[Dysphoria]

Exactly...and how much do you even here about Oracle anymore? Seems to me Oracle just wants to be "heard"

Oracle is doing quite fine.

They have every right to ask for retribution, knowing that Schmidt has used their source code for Android.

[Subject Delta]

You mean the hard work that Oracle brought into, rather than developed themselves? Ah yeah, wouldn't want to undo that, would we.

Android is not what is broken here, it is the US patent system that needs reform.

[Quattrone]

You mean the hard work that Oracle brought into, rather than developed themselves? Ah yeah, wouldn't want to undo that, would we.

Android is not what is broken here, it is the US patent system that needs reform.

I quite agree with you, we need to fix the broken patent system.

[techbeck]

Oracle is doing quite fine.

They have every right to ask for retribution, knowing that Schmidt has used their source code for Android.

May be doing fine but you dont hear from them very often. Besides, most of the Java platform is open source so they will have to prove that whatever Android used, is not open.

[hdood]

it's written specifically for Android and uses the java language for the code, but doesn't run java apps. hence it doesn't follow the rules you agree to when using the java language or writing a java interpreter as they're supposed to be fully cross platform and support all the java language.

What "rules" are these though? Is there any evidence that Google entered into a contract with Oracle where these conditions were present?

But as usual google just plows ahead ignoring other peoples copyrights and hard work.

Copyright applies to the implementation. Did Google actually illegally use other people's code?

[monkey13]

Because android doesn't run Java apps. It turns dex files, in dalvik. dalvik is a special java "runtime" that runs the pre compiled dex files on Android and doesn't support the full java spec. it's written specifically for Android and uses the java language for the code, but doesn't run java apps. hence it doesn't follow the rules you agree to when using the java language or writing a java interpreter as they're supposed to be fully cross platform and support all the java language.

Google should have done the right thing and just made dalvik use their own special language instead of java and they'd be safe. But as usual google just plows ahead ignoring other peoples copyrights and hard work.

Thanks HawkMan thats a good explanation. I didn't realise that making your own interpreter/runtime for Java was a problem.

[Alladaskill17]

Exactly...and how much do you even here about Oracle anymore? Seems to me Oracle just wants to be "heard"

Oracle doesn't need to be heard, those who matter know about oracle. They're still everywhere, doing business, and still making acquisitions etc lol

[(Spork)]

Oh blah. If Android had flopped, Oracle wouldn't have given a ****. But how that's successful they want in on the action.

yep pretty much ! nailed it

[hdood]

Thanks HawkMan thats a good explanation. I didn't realise that making your own interpreter/runtime for Java was a problem.

It shouldn't be, unless you violated any patents, used actual code belonging to someone else, or based the implementation on documentation (trade secrets) supplied under a contract that had various requirements, or violated antitrust regulations (see Microsoft.) I don't know what Google did, but there should be nothing illegal about a clean room implementation (patents aside), so at least in principle it is possible to create one that is as incompatible as you want.

[etempest]

Looks like Oracle doesn't like Java being fully open sourced, not shocked there.

There was an article a while back about Google Andriod and Java. (Can't find link)

It boiled down to this, Google (and other's) wanted to use Java differently then suns "standards".

Sun caved in and created exceptions with a special java designation / name, but really didn't want to.

Open Souce means this - if Google alters the java code, they have to make the altered code available to anyone that wants has it.

Other people then can use your code without your permission any changes they do they have to give the code oit.

[HSoft]

May be doing fine but you dont hear from them very often. Besides, most of the Java platform is open source so they will have to prove that whatever Android used, is not open.

I haven't really kept up with Java but that's what I thought. Java is open source so how can they sue if the code is published (unless it violates something like the GNU license or whatever license Java runs under)?