Okay, I need some help with all this Router, Modem, Fios business!

[farahm2]

Hey there folks, I need some help. Okay so my situation is this: I have Verizon Fios, and it's great. Only it's great in the basement and the middle floor in my house. 3rd floor not so much. I don't get a very strong connection up there, I've tried connecting with a laptop, a desktop and an iPhone. All of them get crappy signals. So I want to buy another router (a linksys one) but I have no idea what to do with it. Can I just connect to my desktop computer on the 3rd floor? Or will I need to connect it to the FIOS router/modem in the basement. If I do that then what's the point? It's still going to be in the basement, and I'm still probably going to get crappy signals.

Please help me out here, I need to find out how to configure this to make everything work. The Linksys router I want to get it probably one of these, help me out on picking the best one.

http://homestore.cisco.com/en-us/Routers/Linksys-E3000L-HighPerformance-Wirelessn-router_stcVVproductId97826163VVcatId551966VVviewprod.htm

http://homestore.cisco.com/en-us/Routers/Linksys-E2000-Advanced-Wirelessn-router_stcVVproductId97826161VVcatId551966VVviewprod.htm

I can probably get the first one for around 100 bucks, so I might get that one. But again, let me know if there is any downsides to either of these products. Okay so let's say that I buy one of these, and I hook it up, then what will happen, will I have to create a new home network to join. Let's just go ahead and say that my main home network right now is called HOME1. I use HOME1 to access the internet on all of my wifi devices (iphone, laptop, computer, game consoles, etc) and it's protected with at WEP key. So if I get that linksys router and hook it up, will I have to create a new network for all my devices to connect to? or will it automatically just make my HOME1 network stronger/faster?

Thanks for any help in advance!

[Neowinuser1991]

Wireless G only goes so far, Wireless N goes farther...but only <1 year year devices support Wireless N.

You could try bridging 2 wireless routers but its such a serious hit and miss amount router brands its sometimes hopeless .

[Another Canuck]

[...] and it's protected with at WEP key.

I hate to break it to you, but no, it's not. Change it to WPA2 security. WEP is not acceptable these days and can be cracked in seconds with next to no hacking experience.

Now, on to the rest...

1. Is there any way to route the incoming FiOS connection to the main floor (to install the modem on the main floor?) Regardless of whichever router you get, you'll never get fantastic reception on the upper floors of your house if the router is tucked away in the basement.

2. If you get a new router, you should disable the DHCP Server and Wireless functions entirely on the FiOS modem/router. This essentially turns it into a modem and nothing but a modem. You can then plug in the new router into the modem and set up your new network (with WPA2 security).

Both of the Linksys routers you're looking at have internal antennas and will unlikely provide any noticeable increase in range given the current location of your FiOS modem.

[farmeunit]

I hate to break it to you, but no, it's not. Change it to WPA2 security. WEP is not acceptable these days and can be cracked in seconds with next to no hacking experience.

It depends on the devices that you need to connect to it. You need to select the best encryption that all your devices can connect with. Most should be able to use WPA/WPA2, but the Nintendo DS, for instance, only works with WEP, or did the last time I tried hooking one up for someoe. WEP is trivial to crack, but there are tools to crack WPA fairly easily also. Either is better than having nothing.

[OH2D]

I have been dealing with this recently. If you have ethernet going in to your router (WAN port) then you should be able to just replace the router. To do this you will need to release DCHP from the verizon router and enable it on your new one. If you do not have ethernet running into your router you will probably have coax running into it. If you do setup of the new router will be a little be more complicated.

http://www.dslreports.com/faq/verizonfios/3.0_Networking

This guide can help you.

If you can rerouting you router to the main floor is the best place for it.

And as for wireless security i wouldnt use anything less than WPA2.

[+BudMan MVC]

"but there are tools to crack WPA fairly easily also"

Sure there are --- and if your password is like P@ssW0rD1 then you deserve to be hacked if you ask me.. Now they can have the computing power of a small nation and its not going to do them any good if your PSK is something like "wru7as6uc-A5uGAVaC@$85-_"

Do the MATH yourself on bruteforce a SECURE psk.. The problem with wep is there is nothing you can do about it flaws... With WPA/WPA2 your the one that decides the security level of your PSK, if you use some dictionary word, do not change your ssid to be unique -- then yeah your not very secure.. But if you follow simple best practice, your WPA is VERY VERY SECURE!!!

Please do not spread FUD like wpa is easy to hack as well -- cuz its NOT, unless the person that set it up is a complete and utter moron... No P@sSw0rD! is NOT secure psk ;)

As to this

'you should disable the DHCP Server and Wireless functions entirely on the FiOS modem/router. This essentially turns it into a modem and nothing but a modem."

Where did you get that idea from?? No it does not -- it would still be doing NAT.. so its not just a modem -- the router you connect to it would still have a private IP on your wan interface, and be doing NAT on its own - so you would have a double NAT.

What you need to do it put it into BRIDGE mode -- now its just a modem. So no NAT.. Whatever device you connect be it a router or pc would get a PUBLIC IP from the ISP.. Now you can connect any router you want and your good.

Another option is any wireless router can be used as a AccessPoint -- so your fios device would still be your gateway.. But you would add wireless and more switch ports to your network. Any wireless router can do this.. You can add more than 1 if you want to cover a larger area -- ie run a cable or use homeplugs to connect your gateway to the up stairs -- now plug in another wireless router being used as ACCESSPOINT only upstairs.. Shazam lots of wireless coverage - one network where everything can share files, play games, etc.

http://www.dslwebserver.com/main/fr_index.html?/main/wireless-router-as-access-point.html

How to Use a Wireless Router as a Wireless Access Point

edit: Just took a look at the above linked guide http://www.dslreport.../3.0_Networking

Looks like lots of info there - I would not go with any of the double natted options.. Option 4 is the one I was talking about - your fios device is not a bridge and the router you connect is now your gateway. But looks like a great source of info with lots of options for you to use.

Edited August 29, 2010 by BudMan

[Another Canuck]

I normally suggest bridge mode. I've suggested it several times now in other threads, and every time they say they can't find the option anywhere. So I don't even bother anymore. It's as though they've stopped including it in all these crappy ISP-provided modem/router combos.

Of course it will still provide more functionality than a plain modem in bridge mode, but much of it wouldn't matter to the average user once properly configured.

[Anibal P]

I normally suggest bridge mode. I've suggested it several times now in other threads, and every time they say they can't find the option anywhere. So I don't even bother anymore. It's as though they've stopped including it in all these crappy ISP-provided modem/router combos.

Of course it will still provide more functionality than a plain modem in bridge mode, but much of it wouldn't matter to the average user once properly configured.

not sure about the FIOS modem but my U-Verse modem will recognize that there's a router attached and give you the option to configure itself for it to work as a separate wireless network, haven't tried doing it as one big network

[simsie]

When I was faced with this challenge I used two homeplug adapters and a wireless access point [not a router] to extend the range of my wireless.

Set the SSID/Security/password the same on both wireless access points and it forms one big roaming network.

[+BudMan MVC]

^ Exactly -- you can just use the device you got from your isp, and do whatever you want with wireless.. Be it with a true accesspoint (cost you more money) or just a any wireless router on the market.. They can ALL be used as just an access point if you want - ALL OF THEM!!! So vs spending $100 on a true accesspoint, just a $20 wireless routers - or 2 or 3 of them if you need that many to cover the area you want ;)

[simsie]

i think homeplug would be the easiest way to get network to your 2nd access point unless you want to lay cables. If using a router make sure you plug the ethernet cable into a normal port [NOT Wan/Internet] and you turn off DHCP. You'll also want to move the AP's IP address to be in the same subnet as your main router. At home we use 192.168.1.1 and 1.254 for Router/AP.

I wouldn't suggest using wireless repeater/bridge, but that's because I don't like how it works.

[farahm2]

I hate to break it to you, but no, it's not. Change it to WPA2 security. WEP is not acceptable these days and can be cracked in seconds with next to no hacking experience.

Now, on to the rest...

1. Is there any way to route the incoming FiOS connection to the main floor (to install the modem on the main floor?) Regardless of whichever router you get, you'll never get fantastic reception on the upper floors of your house if the router is tucked away in the basement.

2. If you get a new router, you should disable the DHCP Server and Wireless functions entirely on the FiOS modem/router. This essentially turns it into a modem and nothing but a modem. You can then plug in the new router into the modem and set up your new network (with WPA2 security).

Both of the Linksys routers you're looking at have internal antennas and will unlikely provide any noticeable increase in range given the current location of your FiOS modem.

1. I don't think I would be able to move the modem to the main floor because right now it is being used to access internet on a gaming computer in the basement via ethernet calble. We would highly prefer a wired internet connection on a gaming computer rather than a wireless connection.

2. Okay, so you're saying that if I do get a new router, that I should first make sure that the FIOS modem/router is configured to be just a modem? BudMan mentioned that I should put it into BRIDGE mode rather than just disabling DHCP and Wireless to make it nothing but a modem, so I will probably do that.

I have been dealing with this recently. If you have ethernet going in to your router (WAN port) then you should be able to just replace the router. To do this you will need to release DCHP from the verizon router and enable it on your new one. If you do not have ethernet running into your router you will probably have coax running into it. If you do setup of the new router will be a little be more complicated.

http://www.dslreports.com/faq/verizonfios/3.0_Networking

This guide can help you.

If you can rerouting you router to the main floor is the best place for it.

And as for wireless security i wouldnt use anything less than WPA2.

Yeah, you are right I have coax running into the FIOS router because when I asked the verizon people about FIOS they explained that it uses coax rather than ethernet for faster speeds. And I'm probably going to look into WPA2 to learn more about it and find out how to apply it to my current home network.

What you need to do it put it into BRIDGE mode -- now its just a modem. So no NAT.. Whatever device you connect be it a router or pc would get a PUBLIC IP from the ISP.. Now you can connect any router you want and your good.

Another option is any wireless router can be used as a AccessPoint -- so your fios device would still be your gateway.. But you would add wireless and more switch ports to your network. Any wireless router can do this.. You can add more than 1 if you want to cover a larger area -- ie run a cable or use homeplugs to connect your gateway to the up stairs -- now plug in another wireless router being used as ACCESSPOINT only upstairs.. Shazam lots of wireless coverage - one network where everything can share files, play games, etc.

http://www.dslwebserver.com/main/fr_index.html?/main/wireless-router-as-access-point.html

How to Use a Wireless Router as a Wireless Access Point

So, you're saying that I can use any old wireless router as an access point? And that I can use more than one of them? So then I guess getting that Linksys one is pretty useless now, huh? But is what AnotherCanuck said about the linksys routers true? that since they have internal antennas they won't provide adequate coverage? Because on the website for these routers, it says that they are designes to provide coverage for larger homes...

When I was faced with this challenge I used two homeplug adapters and a wireless access point [not a router] to extend the range of my wireless.

Set the SSID/Security/password the same on both wireless access points and it forms one big roaming network.

Can you please explain these homeplugs a little more? it seems that this would be an easy options for me, if it is what I am thinking it is. Would I HAVE to use a wireless access point? Because the link that BudMan provided: http://www.dslwebserver.com/main/fr_index.html?/main/wireless-router-as-access-point.html

says that any wireless router can be used as an access point. And it also says that wireless routers are waay cheaper than wireless access points, which is always nice..

[simsie]

Homeplugs plug into any free wall socket and then use your houses mains cable to act as a massive ethernet cable. If you were to add a 3rd homeplug then it'd be like having 3 PCs plugged into a hub/switch. You'll only want two, most likely. You'd plug one in by your router [the FIOS box] and ethernet it in there and then plug another in by the desktop and either ethernet the desktop in, or add a wireless access point.

You can use any router. If we're going for technical these home 'routers' do routing, switching and work as wireless access points [so 3 devices in one]. Just so long as you do what Budman/myself said about disabling certain things any router can easily be just an access point. I hope that makes sense.

One thing to look out for with homeplug is sometimes the mains cabling in a house causes it issues, but I guess you won't know until you try.

[+BudMan MVC]

If your going to use a wireless router as just an accesspoint - then you have no need to to touch your current fios routers setup.. Which makes it easy ;)

As stated you could use homeplugs to run a connection to the other part of your house using the electric wiring already in place.. Then plug in your wireless router there as an accesspoint -- now you can plug in wired computers to this "accesspoint" or wireless from it.

[farahm2]

Homeplugs plug into any free wall socket and then use your houses mains cable to act as a massive ethernet cable. If you were to add a 3rd homeplug then it'd be like having 3 PCs plugged into a hub/switch. You'll only want two, most likely. You'd plug one in by your router [the FIOS box] and ethernet it in there and then plug another in by the desktop and either ethernet the desktop in, or add a wireless access point.

You can use any router. If we're going for technical these home 'routers' do routing, switching and work as wireless access points [so 3 devices in one]. Just so long as you do what Budman/myself said about disabling certain things any router can easily be just an access point. I hope that makes sense.

One thing to look out for with homeplug is sometimes the mains cabling in a house causes it issues, but I guess you won't know until you try.

If your going to use a wireless router as just an accesspoint - then you have no need to to touch your current fios routers setup.. Which makes it easy ;)

As stated you could use homeplugs to run a connection to the other part of your house using the electric wiring already in place.. Then plug in your wireless router there as an accesspoint -- now you can plug in wired computers to this "accesspoint" or wireless from it.

Sweet! Thanks for the help guys! A few more questions though, ( :blush: sorry if I'm bombarding you guys with questions, I can't help it!) Are there any compatibility issues I should be aware of when using Homeplug adapters? As simsie said, I might run into issues with my home wiring, but he's right, I'm just gunna find that out once I actually try to set it all up. But what I'm wondering is if there are certain routers that don't work with homeplug. It seems like a super easy setup, I just wanna make sure that this super easy setup is going to work in the end. BudMan, you said that there is no reason for me to mess with my FIOS setup so I'm assuming that should all work out with the homeplug adapters. Also I've been hearing a lot about how Homeplug adapters die easily within a few months. Is that true? I guess it would depend on which one you get. I think I am going to go for this one because it got many great reviews, it's from the same company as my FIOS router, and compared to some of the other ones I saw, its relatively cheap.

http://www.amazon.com/Actiontec-MegaPlug-Powerline-Network-Adapter/dp/B001OOZ1X2/ref=tag_dpp_lp_edpp_ttl_in

What do you think?

[+BudMan MVC]

I personally am not a fan of them - its just easier if you ask me to run an actual wire.. But they do work - your prob not going to see anywhere close to what they say you can, as far as speed ;)

But the setup is a no brainer, plug them in.. And yes you can connect switches on both ends, or wireless router being used as a accesspoint

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HomePlug_Powerline_Alliance

The powerline adapter can also be plugged into a hub or switch when multiple devices (computers, printers, IP phones, etc.) need to be connected in a single room

[PGHammer]

Wireless G only goes so far, Wireless N goes farther...but only <1 year year devices support Wireless N.

You could try bridging 2 wireless routers but its such a serious hit and miss amount router brands its sometimes hopeless .

The Actiontec MI424WR supports WPA2 - however, it doesn't use it (or WPA, which it also supports) by default. The big problem with the Actiontec is the poor support it has for wireless devices as a whole (wireless devices can see the router fine; however, most simply cannot maintain a decent connection to it using any sort of security). I have started connecting a second router (not in bridged mode!) to an Actiontec (and then turning the Actiontec's radios *off*). This allows the Actiontec to remain a *wired* router (which it's great at) and keeps the MoCA functionality (which is the real advantage). while letting the *wireless* router take up the wireless load.

[ozyborn]

For range and speed. At the retail level you have the Apple Extreme and the Airport Express for range. You have the Netgear WNDR3700........ I prefer the Netgear.. Never let me down. If you are not using WPA2 then you have a bottleneck in your network. If you use WEP, then why bother with any encryption?

[farahm2]

The Actiontec MI424WR supports WPA2 - however, it doesn't use it (or WPA, which it also supports) by default. The big problem with the Actiontec is the poor support it has for wireless devices as a whole (wireless devices can see the router fine; however, most simply cannot maintain a decent connection to it using any sort of security). I have started connecting a second router (not in bridged mode!) to an Actiontec (and then turning the Actiontec's radios *off*). This allows the Actiontec to remain a *wired* router (which it's great at) and keeps the MoCA functionality (which is the real advantage). while letting the *wireless* router take up the wireless load.

What is MoCA?

[+BudMan MVC]

What is MoCA?

http://www.mocalliance.org/

[Argote]

if your desktop is on the 3rd floor, hooked up by ethernet, then you can just connect a router to that (and from that new router connect the desktop) and create a second wireless networks. I have 2 wireless networks at home this way.

[+BudMan MVC]

if your desktop is on the 3rd floor, hooked up by ethernet

Great question -- I just reread your OP.. And you state

"Can I just connect to my desktop computer on the 3rd floor?"

Are you complaining that this 3rd floor desktop has ****ty wireless connection - or is it wired already to your fios router??

If so then you already have a Wire running to the 3rd floor. So yeah you can connect a wireless router to that wire as an accesspoint (no need for homeplugs) and then just connect your desktop to one of the lan ports of this new router.

[farahm2]

Great question -- I just reread your OP.. And you state

"Can I just connect to my desktop computer on the 3rd floor?"

Are you complaining that this 3rd floor desktop has ****ty wireless connection - or is it wired already to your fios router??

If so then you already have a Wire running to the 3rd floor. So yeah you can connect a wireless router to that wire as an accesspoint (no need for homeplugs) and then just connect your desktop to one of the lan ports of this new router.

No, there is no wired connection to the computer on the third floor. I'm looking for a fix for the weak wireless signal I get from up there.

But, in your opinion, is MoCA better than using homeplugs? Also, reading through the MoCA FAQs, they keep mentioning how it distributes high definition video signals, and it keeps mentioning TV services such as cable and satellite. Will this do what I want it to?

[+BudMan MVC]

"MoCA better than using homeplugs"

What??? Who ever said anything about that??? MoCA is supported by your router, if you bridge it out and connect another router -- you loose that.

Is your router connected to your ONT with ethernet or the Coax connector??

Maybe I should of pointed you here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verizon_FiOS vs that page???

--

Television

Unlike AT&T's U-verse product, Verizon's broadcast video service is not IPTV. However, video on demand content and interactive features, such as "widgets" and programing guide data, are delivered over an IPTV-based format. The vast majority of content is provided over a standard broadcast video signal which carries digital QAM content up to 870 MHz. This broadcast content originates from a Super Head-End (SHE), which then sends the signal to a Video Hub Office (VHO) for distribution to FiOS TV customers.[6]

At the Optical Network Terminal (ONT) located at the subscriber's home, the RF video is sent over a coaxial connection, typically to a FiOS set-top box that handles both RF and IPTV video. Interactive services such as VOD and widgets are delivered by IP and are only accessible through use of a FiOS set-top box and a Verizon-supplied router. The router supports MoCA and provides the set-top boxes with programming guides and on-demand video content. Verizon utilizes an IP return path from the set-top box so that subscribers can order pay-per-view events. The FiOS set-top boxes play IPTV only through FiOS delivered via MoCA and not from video sources on the Internet. FiOS's IPTV implementation does not follow cable television formats and conventions for two way television and instead follows the DVB standard.[7]

MoCA is also used by FiOS for streaming video from the ONT for the home, a role currently filled by Motorola's hybrid QAM/IPTV DVR. There are several limitations to video connectivity in the home via FiOS. Standard definition video may be viewed on any television with a built-in clear QAM tuner (limited to legally unencrypted broadcast and local access channels) or a FiOS SD set-top box or FiOS digital television adapter (all SD channels), but high definition content (beyond local HD channels which are in clear QAM) requires HD equipment like a FiOS HD set-top box/DVR or a CableCARD-supporting device, such as TiVo. As of June 2008, Verizon ceased carrying analog television signals in parallel with digital channels, meaning televisions without a QAM tuner or a set-top box/digital adapter receive no signal.[8]

--