LG Optimus - Windows Phone 7

[George P Global Moderator]

Even if sockets are made available in the future they are wasting everyone's time and money in the meantime. Developers will write HTTP proxy applications to work around the restriction so they will be apps on the market that just connect to HTTP web services that in turn connect to whatever end network the user is trying to access (AIM, IRC, SSH, etc). Since there will be the continued cost of running the proxy web service in addition to the cost of developing the client app I doubt we will see any of these for free. Once the sockets do become available other developers will code real client apps and put them up on the market making all the work the previous developers did useless and making end users buy a new version of all their apps in order to get apps that connect directly to the network resources they wanted to use in the first place.

That's the way it works in the software world, something better always comes out, those first devs that make whatever apps would be silly if they just left things as they are and didn't make a newer version of their apps that used the new APIs thus getting more sales through upgrades and new users. I don't see a problem in it at all, it's not like prices will be skyhigh for these mobile apps in the end and if something new and better comes out 6 months or a year later where's the problem?

[Richteralan]

Oh, give it a rest already. Maybe you're confusing how you think it will be with how it could be? It seems to be something you do often. No where has MS said they're not and or will never give more access to 3rd parties down the road. Often their reply is "not right now" or "not in this version" or "not at this point in time". I have never seen them say "No, never".

now i understand why Obama won Nobel prize for things he promised to do!!!! :laugh:

[Omen1393]

now i understand why Obama won Nobel prize for things he promised to do!!!! :laugh:

Because he kept most of them? Regardless, there is no reason to bring Obama into a discussion about a phone can't you guys keep politics in the politics section?

[____]

... where's the problem?

The problem is the competition has had years to iterate on their platforms already and they were ahead of where WP7 is now at their launches. "Merely OK" isn't going to cut it if they actually want to be relevant in the Mobile Operating System sector when the competition is already at "Great".

[George P Global Moderator]

The problem is the competition has had years to iterate on their platforms already and they were ahead of where WP7 is now at their launches. "Merely OK" isn't going to cut it if they actually want to be relevant in the Mobile Operating System sector when the competition is already at "Great".

What's "Great" is subjective, I don't think the iPhone 4 is great, and I don't think Android 2.2 is "great", good ya, but it's the same old mobile OS done over, nothing new or exciting to me personally.

There's enough new, out of the box thinking that's went into the top level UI and features already in WP7 that will draw people to it, low level missing developer APIs, while important sure, won't and haven't turned away devs to the platform at this point. I keep seeing more and more apps poping up and now even 3rd party 3D game engines are cropping up. For something that's "merely ok" in your words it seems to have enough going for it that a large number of devs have jumped in. Also it being a new platform and a new marketplace minus the "race to the bottom" of the Apple side should give devs with good apps nice returns if the market is there.

So again, even if apps on WP7 are a bit behind API wise to others, if they're good and work well where's the problem? As more things become open to 3rd parties with time they'll only keep getting better.

[____]

If you're buying a smart phone based entirely on how different the UI is from existing products then by all means go with WP7. As for 3D games, two of the biggest names in 3D games showed off their tech recently, and it was on iOS with OpenGL ES not WP7 with XNA.

[George P Global Moderator]

If you're buying a smart phone based entirely on how different the UI is from existing products then by all means go with WP7. As for 3D games, two of the biggest names in 3D games showed off their tech recently, and it was on iOS with OpenGL ES not WP7 with XNA.

I expect some great looking 3D games on WP7, and from some big names as well. If they're close partners with MS they're also probably not limited to just using XNA4.

[jakem1]

I think we have more than enough evidence to suggest that WP7 is going to be very competitive when it comes to 3D games. There's really nothing worth arguing about when it comes to gaming on WP7.

[____]

I expect some great looking 3D games on WP7, and from some big names as well. If they're close partners with MS they're also probably not limited to just using XNA4.

That's just more wild speculation. They've never announced anything about ISV partners getting more access to the device. I'm providing factual information about missing features and you're evangelizing their platform claiming that those features will be there because the developers said they're looking into it. The only problem with that is that they said they are looking into everything and gave no confirmations of any features or timeline as to what iteration they will be in. "We're looking into for a future iteration" is just the BS line that PR gave them to answer any question pertaining to a feature not in the OS yet. Certainly they have future iterations planned and in progress but they haven't chosen to share any of that information with anyone else so we have no way of knowing what feature are coming or when. To promote the platform saying that these feature will be there is just plain irresponsible.

There are 3 reasons to buy the phone as it stands now:

1. The UI.

2. First party Game IP from MGS

3. Achievements.

God help you if you are basing your phone purchase on 1 or 3. As for 2 in order for it to really matter they would have to be supplying something story driven that actually expanded on the universe in which the game is set, otherwise you might as well just be playing a generic knock off on another system. So far they are backing their biggest IP with something that isn't even a game. They have a mobile Crackdown game but the last iteration of that series on Xbox didn't even have a story so I doubt there is anything to gain from playing a Crackdown branded tower defense game instead of one from the plethora of already available titles on any platform of your choosing.

[HawkMan]

There are 3 reasons to buy the phone as it stands now:

1. The UI.

2. First party Game IP from MGS

3. Achievements.

4. Office

5. Integration (Android is great, but in many aspects WM6.5 is better when it comes to makgin it seem like an actual phone, as opposed to a smart device with a phone app, a message app, an mms app..... it's all so disconnected and all over the place).

6. Zune, and zune subscription.

7. silverlight and ease of development. (ANYONE can make powerful apps for this thing, Google is promising something like this with their webbased tool, but that'll at best be fancy widgets)

8. XBL cross play, with XBL games, also don't forget cross compilation, pretty much all XBLA games can also be compiled for WP7 at the same time as you compile the XBLA version. yeah, I'm sure we can expect a LOT of cool games for this.

there's a few more, but I think those cover the main bases.

[George P Global Moderator]

That's just more wild speculation. They've never announced anything about ISV partners getting more access to the device. I'm providing factual information about missing features and you're evangelizing their platform claiming that those features will be there because the developers said they're looking into it.

For saying your providing facts why do you then sidestep the simple fact that MS's close partners do already have more access to things compared to 3rd party devs that only get what Silverlight and XNA 4 give them? It's pretty well known the OEMs and phone carriers get more access, and I don't think it would be any different for some big game studio that's worked close with MS to get the same treatment for a game they want to do for WP7 and XBL.

If you want to think otherwise and just write everything off as speculation and guessing then fine, I can't help you there. To each his own.

[____]

4. Office

5. Integration (Android is great, but in many aspects WM6.5 is better when it comes to makgin it seem like an actual phone, as opposed to a smart device with a phone app, a message app, an mms app..... it's all so disconnected and all over the place).

6. Zune, and zune subscription.

7. silverlight and ease of development. (ANYONE can make powerful apps for this thing, Google is promising something like this with their webbased tool, but that'll at best be fancy widgets)

8. XBL cross play, with XBL games, also don't forget cross compilation, pretty much all XBLA games can also be compiled for WP7 at the same time as you compile the XBLA version. yeah, I'm sure we can expect a LOT of cool games for this.

Those are some good points that I missed, but are they worth the limitations of the system?

4. Free office apps included is definitely nice but without the ability to copy and paste snippets from emails and webpages how much editing are you really going to do with a mobile device?

7. .NET development is extremely easy and this is the primary reason that I would want to get a windows phone and would like to see it succeed. Using c# and XAML would be much nicer than working with Android's custom XML UI stuff that isn't common to any other system or Apple's Objective C, but their choice of Silverlight confuses me. A phone application isn't a browser plugin. Why should phone apps inherit all the limitations that are in place that make sense in the Silverlight world. Why are things that already exist in silverlight and Windows CE like copy and paste excluded? They should have just given developers access to the full .NET CF.

For saying your providing facts why do you then sidestep the simple fact that MS's close partners do already have more access to things compared to 3rd party devs that only get what Silverlight and XNA 4 give them?

I'm not ignoring the fact that OEMs have more access to the system than ISVs, that has been stated by Microsoft and is a fact. I'm ignoring your speculation that it somehow follows that ISVs will magically get these same privileges. Nothing of the sort has been announced and that is the fact.

If you want to speculate then lets look at Microsoft's treatment of OEMs and ISVs on the desktop. As an ISV I don't have access to anything that OEMs do, I can't do things like package and deploy my own Windows Recovery discs. They have entirely separate partner networks for the two. If Microsoft had any intention of treating the two the same with WP7 applications why haven't they announced anything yet? If additional APIs or native code loading are coded and available (which to LG they must be) why would Microsoft limit them to OEMs if they already have the intention to include ISVs in the future. They put the call out for game developers to approach them with games that they would consider publishing and therefor grant more privileges like achievements, but we haven't seen any similar calls for applications. If all this application magic is coming where is the evidence?

If you want to think otherwise and just write everything off as speculation and guessing then fine, I can't help you there. To each his own.

I'm perfectly capable of distinguishing fact from speculation, your resort to ad hominem attacks only undermines your own arguments.