Slow access to server?

[game_over]

There seems to be a delay accessing one of my servers and i can't seem to work out why.

Where should i be looking?

going to \\server1 loads instantly, but going to \\server2 takes about 10-20 seconds before the shares show up.

They both go to the same switch

Because it can't connect it's failing to map important drive shares, stopping software from running.

oops, please delete duplicate threads, don't know what happened there.

[HawkMan]

Well what you do not need to do, is to make the same topic on every neowin sub forum.... Actually they where all on the same sub forum. ... maybe a forum bug. or your slopw server issue is affecting your net connection as well.

[game_over]

Well what you do not need to do, is to make the same topic on every neowin sub forum.... Actually they where all on the same sub forum. ... maybe a forum bug. or your slopw server issue is affecting your net connection as well.

i think the neowin server flipped out a bit, all other sites were loading ok. the page took a long time to load then posted it 3 times :-/

[Prophecy]

Could be a variety of things, IMHO it sounds like a DNS issue have you tried browsing by the IP of the second server? Have you checked your master browser settings, your network firewall, your software.

Prophecy

[+BudMan MVC]

Connected to the same switch means what exactly? If I recall your network is a COMPLETE an utter Cluster F___ Have you corrected it yet?? As I posted back then - its amazing anything works at all.

https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/912640-isa-server-and-osx/

Your the one running 2 ip address schemes on the same physical hardware are you not -- where some devices point to gateways in a different address space.

Server -

1 NIC -> SWITCH

IP Address: 192.168.16.2

Subnet Mask: 255.255.252.0

Default Gateway: 10.83.112.1

Preferred DNS: 192.168.16.2

So if your still in that kind of cluster F___ of setup -- then yeah its amazing anything is working ;) Good luck -- fix your address space, correctly vlan and route between segments, etc. And I can pretty much guarantee lots and lots and lots of the problems your seeing will go away!

Until your network is correctly setup -- your going to have nothing but issues upon issues upon issues. You can not expect to run 2 address schemes on the same physical hardware and expect your machines to talk to each other without issues. I went over how to correct your network in that above thread. Once you have it setup correctly, if your still having issues then we can address them.

[game_over]

I see what your saying Bud, but it's not as easy as that... I'm living in fear of it breaking the besoke software we use, the original company that created the software no longer exists and has been bought out by another company.. getting any kind of support from them is going to cost us a lot of money.

We originally used the 10.80 network, the guys came out to install the software, which required installing ISA Server (as it runs off access rules), at this point in the chain it moves all our client machines to 192.168... It was around 5 years ago so it's a little hazy but i'm sure he said it was done because the software was coded that way.

I know what your saying about the issues but everything we have on our networks ends up at a 3com switch, it connects the 2 cabs we have via fiber as well as the file server/dns/dhcp, internet gateway, isa server and our most recent server... Everything is 'working' OK, except the most recent server, we're getting slow access and random network hangs. It's 10 times more powerful than any of our other servers.. There is a snag in there somewhere i just can't find it, i believe it's not related to the issues described in my other threads. It's a HP ProLiant ML350 G6 which has Broadcom NICS, i've done some reading and it looks like they can be troublesome? I'll be updating the drivers as soon as i'm in a position to take it offline.

Other than that, what else could be making it slow?

[Prophecy]

Nevermind, I read Buds post. Sounds like you have other issues. To resolve.

[+BudMan MVC]

"Everything is 'working' OK, except the most recent server, we're getting slow access and random network hangs"

And are these servers all on the same address space?? Your going to have ISSUES when your trying to talk to a machine on an IP of 10.x.x.x from a machine that is on the 192.x.x.x does not matter if they are connected to the same physical switch or not. This is NOT how tcp/ip works -- you can not just set whatever IPs you want and expect to talk to other networks just because they are the same physical switch. You need to route between networks - PERIOD!! To be honest what your saying should not work at all -- so I can not fathom how your saying its OK.

That one example you have where you have a machine on the 192.x.x.x and then its gateway is 10. Its WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!!

I would have to say what you think is OK, and what the rest of the planet would say is ok are 2 completely different things... YOU CAN NOT run 2 different address spaces on the same physical switch and put one server on a 192 network and another on 10 and expect them to talk to each other correctly. You can have devices on the 192 and other devices on the 10 -- and the 192's could talk and the 10's could talk to each other fine -- but you can not expect them to talk to each other in such a setup.

I went over in the other threads multiple options for you to correct this problem. FIX IT!!! and the vast majority of your issues will vanish. If you have software that needs to be on that network -- THEN CHANGE your other devices to be on that network!! EASY, DONE, move on.. I gave you a drawing of how your ISA should be setup to allow for that 10.x since that is what your cable box is using. Your talking a handful of machines, not 1,000s of them -- changing the address space your other machines use would take all of 30 minutes tops to fix.. If you were within 2 hours of here I would drive down there - fix it for you 20 minutes.. And then we could go out for BEERS... You would be Buying ALL OF THEM ;) So fix it already --- if you layout your network with every device, details of every IP and physical connections each device has. I will layout your Fix for you with exact details and steps to do to minimize any possible down time --- to be honest knowing there are networks out there like yours make me feel sick to my stomach that anyone can work in IT and let such a monstrosity exist!!

To be honest asking for what could be the problem without giving the details of your jacked up network is not going to get you any correct answers. Are their problems with the drives of whatever you new machine is -- sure their might be, have no idea... But you have a BLARING problem in the basic concept of how networks are configured --- fix that first!!! Then if you still have problems with machines hanging or not talking, etc.. we can troubleshoot and correct.

edit: BTW what switch(es) do you have again.. If I recall you have atleast a smart switch -- can it do intervlan routing?? What is the model number of it again?? If so then we can just create vlans for you and you can leave that one machine that needs to be on the 192 on the 192, and put your other machines on the 10 network, etc. etc.. There are lots of ways to correct your problem without having to spend lots of money or time even.. Just need the EXACT details of what hardware we are working with, and the details of your machines current config -- and we can work out a way to get you correctly setup! Be more than happy to help you do this!!

edit2: A visio of your current network would be step one.. If you don't have visio -- use something like

http://www.gliffy.com/

http://www.lovelycharts.com/

http://www.drawanywhere.com/

etc..

Once we have a basic drawing, we can fill in the details needed -- and then move on to how to fix it ;)

Edited September 8, 2010 by BudMan

[sc302 Veteran]

you could fix it from there budman....but he would have to give you the keys to the kingdom and possibly access through a air card or pray that the network doesn't go down when you make changes. just a suggestion.

:popcorn:

[game_over]

Hi BudMan I understand what your saying, i'll have all details in here first thing and we can go from there.

[+BudMan MVC]

Sounds good -- and as sc302 was saying could prob fix it all from here if given the correct access..

But lets get your current setup documented, then we can move forward with how to fix it.. And can explain anything you don't quite understand, etc. And will can do in steps so that you can always back out if need be without too much effort.

So will have a drawing of current network, and then drawing with fixed network. Then we can put up a tutorial on how NOT to setup a network ;) heheheh

[game_over]

hi Budman, I've went through everything and come up with this drawing:

http://cl.ly/c33135ae97aad47c161c

let me know your thoughts.

[+BudMan MVC]

What did you use to draw that?? Its freaking HUGE!!! I had to zoom all the way out to even get most of it to display, still have to scroll down.

Its a START.. But what does ISP actually mean?? Do you have a router there? What device? and what exactly is this cachepilot.. Is it this?

http://www.equiinet.com/cachepilot/products/default.asp

Also you have a 3550, Im quite sure it can do intervlan routing.. You state you have what I assume ports 1 to 20 on the 192.168.16 network, and then 21 to 24 on 10.87.50 -- Are these actual vlans you have setup?? Please post the config of the 3550.

Also what is the configs of clients connected to the 4228Gs? Both for the 192 and 10

You call it a admin lan on the 10.87.50 -- for that to be the case you would need to complete isolate it from the rest of the network.. What is the reasoning behind it?? You have a 3550, you can create ACLs to prevent access based... Im trying to understand what you think your accomplishing what that network.

Trying to figure out the point of the ISA server?? What points to it as a gateway? The clients??

Fill in these details, and then we can move on -- I have to run to work.. Will check in later.. Its a start but stills leaves many many questions.. Really need to see your 3550 config. And the configs of the client machines, you say you have a dhcp server - what info is handing out?

[sc302 Veteran]

If I have time I will try to make head or tails out of it and put it into a visio. I believe (from rtfm) the cisco is a layer3 switch and will support what he needs. he can take off that advanced config on his new server. I will only watch from the sidelines from here on out because you have a handle on it.

[game_over]

Used photoshop A4 just to have enough room, if you save it you'll get a screen sized view of it.

ISP = from the switch, down to an opticalal link box then fiber goes into the wall.. didn't provide much info because it should be unrelated and i'm probably not in a position to go messing with that anyway.

Yes that's a cachepilot.. it's our web filtering system and is required for our internet to function. It uses Smoothwall.

Also you have a 3550, Im quite sure it can do intervlan routing.. You state you have what I assume ports 1 to 20 on the 192.168.16 network, and then 21 to 24 on 10.87.50 -- Are these actual vlans you have setup?? Please post the config of the 3550.

I didn't set these up no but our network goes back to the local authority so the admin ports were setup by those guys.. we are a school so the admin computers talk to machines outside of our network for software such as SIMS.net, i don't think you'll be familiar with that on the other side of the pond.

We call it the Curriculum Side (192.. but should be 10.80) and then Admin Side (10.87) there are only 4 admin computers on the admin (10.87) network.

How can i grab the config for these?

You call it a admin lan on the 10.87.50 -- for that to be the case you would need to complete isolate it from the rest of the network.. What is the reasoning behind it?? You have a 3550, you can create ACLs to prevent access based... Im trying to understand what you think your accomplishing what that network.

Yes, the 'admin lan 10.87' is (almost) completely isolated from the curriculum network. The old setup had SIMS.net running from the main admin computer as it was only required for the 4 admin machines, however we now have SIMS.net in all classrooms, so we installed the 'new server' to run SIMS, the server is on the Curriculum Network, we added the extra IP range to it's NIC (as shown on the drawing) so the admin computers could access it.

Trying to figure out the point of the ISA server?? What points to it as a gateway? The clients??

ISA provides no real protection, that's not it's purpose. We allow all protocols from internal to external. We have some software that controls a bunch of our computers, it allows staff to lock them down.. this is all powered by ISA Server. We NEED it for our software to function..

Fill in these details, and then we can move on -- I have to run to work.. Will check in later.. Its a start but stills leaves many many questions.. Really need to see your 3550 config. And the configs of the client machines, you say you have a dhcp server - what info is handing out?

DHCP is leasing 192's?

Hopefully this fills in some of the gaps.

[+BudMan MVC]

if I try and save that -- it wants to save it as a HTML file -- its not a picture.. And A4 is standard picture size.. So I have no idea what is going on there.. Photoshop is not a networking diagram tool -- why didn't you just use one of the FREE tools I pointed to if you don't have visio? I will convert it to an actual network diagram using one of the tools - then we can actually collaborate on the drawing(s)

this is what I see, and can not save it as a image. After zooming ALL THE WAY OUT!!

dhcp is leasing WHAT -- what is the scope, what are the options.. For example you don't tell me what these clients are using for their gateway.

"Yes that's a cachepilot.. it's our web filtering system and is required for our internet to function. It uses Smoothwall."

How is it doing that??? From you drawing NOTHING is pointing to it as a gateway.. Do you have it setup as a proxy or something in your clients? And how and the hell are they talking to it with that IP address if they are on the 192?? Your servers point to 10.83.112.1 as gateway, what do clients point to?? Your cachenet has IP of 10.83.112.2, your ISA has a 192 address -- do your clients point to it as gateway or proxy? When does this cachepilot come into play??? Not from this drawing it doesn't -- nor does the ISA server since you have nothing on the drawing pointing to either of them.

Console into that 3550 and do a "show run" this will output the config so we can see if there are some vlans setup or what? Cause from what you have drawn I can not see how clients are actually accessing anything. Other than servers that are on the same network as them.. What are the actual IP settings of these devices on the 10.87.50 network???

As to those switch, will have to grab a manual - but from the specs they say they support "802.1Q VLAN support" - but do they support trunking to cisco? Are you using the gig ports as uplink to your cisco?? How are you configuring them, from quick look so far I can not tell if th 4228G version support command line access or not? Are you using a web UI? What are the IPs of these 4228G switches? Are you using the 3com device manager?? Really need so see the config on these switch as well.

From what you have shown I have no idea how your actual computers are getting to the internet at all.. And from what I can tell they should not be able to, unless they have a gateway or proxy set to the ISA 192 address.

edit: hey PM me your email address, and I will add you to the gliffy account just set up and we can work on the drawings that way.

[+BudMan MVC]

Ok -- I have what you have in gliffy so it will be easier to work with. Here is what it looks like in gliffy

PM me your email and will get you access so we can work together on the drawings and fix, etc.

[game_over]

sorry you can see my drawing as an image here http://cl.ly/c33135ae97aad47c161c/content

I've left work now so i'll get the other information first thing in the morning and will PM you my email now.

Thanks.

[+BudMan MVC]

Ok -- now we are getting somewhere.. You you have clearly left out some very key info!

Seems these cachepilots all have atleast 2 interfaces.. Every model I looked at did

So why are you only showing it having 1 IP??

And looks like you can configure which interface is used for what.

So we seem to have a drawing - but missing lots and lots of key information on how this network actually functions. For the life of me can not figure out how anything in the 192 network is getting to the internet.. Since there is no gateway listed in this network. Only thing that should be able to talk to the internet is devices that have an IP on the 10.83 and point to this magic 10.83.112.1 address from what I can make out..

Also from this

"Yes, the 'admin lan 10.87' is (almost) completely isolated from the curriculum network. The old setup had SIMS.net running from the main admin computer as it was only required for the 4 admin machines, however we now have SIMS.net in all classrooms, so we installed the 'new server' to run SIMS, the server is on the Curriculum Network, we added the extra IP range to it's NIC (as shown on the drawing) so the admin computers could access it."

So I take it we can just re-ip these 10.87 boxes and put them on the 192 network??? You have no need for anything on the 10.87? Because from the drawing I can not make out what they would be talking to other than each other.

[game_over]

We only have one LAN on the Cachepilot

LAN 1:

10.83.112.2/255.255.240.0 (Private LAN, Trusted)

Default route via LAN 1:

gateway 10.83.112.1

10.87, yeah we basically need to leave those as is, they are isolated and it's meant to be that way, they hit other computers networked outside of our building, i don't even manage them and we don't own them. They are provided by the local authority to talk to the local authority machines, we basically send all attendance data and such over to them.

Ideally we should be left with;

10.87 = Admin Side

10.83 = Curriculum Side

That would be the default setup... we had this until we got ISA Server and Classroom Manager, the company done all the work.. leaving us on the 192 network.

I'll have the rest of the required info ASAP.

[+BudMan MVC]

"We only have one LAN on the Cachepilot

Then HOW and the HELL does any of your machines on the 192 talk to it???

Please post the ipconfig of a machine on the 192 network. For example your file server at 192.168.16.6 has NO way to talk to that cachepilot, and NO way to get to the internet.. Since he should not be able to even talk to his gateway since its NOT on his current network.

How an the hell is doing any filtering??? From that config its NOT going to work! Are the clients setup with browser proxy pointing to it?? They really should not be able to talk to it, for sure could not broadcast for name, etc.

Please post configuration of a client machine and how it gets to the internet -- since from what I am seeing they should not be able to.. So we are clearly missing some info.

Also post the config of your 3550 and your 3com switches.. Do they have IPs? Or are they running as just complete dumb switches???

edit: Do your machines have some other routes added?? On your clients output what does route print show??

exmple

C:\Windows\System32>route print

===========================================================================

Interface List

11...00 21 9b 03 ac a7 ......Realtek PCIe GBE Family Controller

1...........................Software Loopback Interface 1

===========================================================================

IPv4 Route Table

===========================================================================

Active Routes:

Network Destination Netmask Gateway Interface Metric

0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 192.168.1.253 192.168.1.100 266

127.0.0.0 255.0.0.0 On-link 127.0.0.1 306

127.0.0.1 255.255.255.255 On-link 127.0.0.1 306

127.255.255.255 255.255.255.255 On-link 127.0.0.1 306

192.168.1.0 255.255.255.0 On-link 192.168.1.100 266

192.168.1.100 255.255.255.255 On-link 192.168.1.100 266

192.168.1.255 255.255.255.255 On-link 192.168.1.100 266

224.0.0.0 240.0.0.0 On-link 127.0.0.1 306

224.0.0.0 240.0.0.0 On-link 192.168.1.100 266

255.255.255.255 255.255.255.255 On-link 127.0.0.1 306

255.255.255.255 255.255.255.255 On-link 192.168.1.100 266

===========================================================================

Persistent Routes:

Network Address Netmask Gateway Address Metric

0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 192.168.1.253 Default

===========================================================================

From here the default gateway tell my machine that If I want to talk to any network Im not directly connect to or do not have a route for to send the traffic to the gateway.. To talk to the GATEWAY it needs to be on MY current local network!! But you could have specific routes maybe setup in your vs the default gateway???

I am just not seeing how your possible to filter internet -- or for that matter to ever get anywhere.. Your gateway needs to reside on your local network!!

We can fix it up with your 3350 and vlans -- where each segment will have a gateway off their segment on the 3350. Really need to see that config.

Edited September 10, 2010 by BudMan

[game_over]

Here is the info from a client machine..

ipconfig /all

Windows IP Configuration

        Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : ls4-5
        Primary Dns Suffix  . . . . . . . : xxxxxxxx.local
        Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Unknown
        IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
        WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
        DNS Suffix Search List. . . . . . : xxxxxxxx.local
                                            xxxxxxxx.local

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

        Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . : xxxxxxxx.local
        Description . . . . . . . . . . . : SiS 900-Based PCI Fast Ethernet Adapter
        Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-03-0D-2C-B5-6F
        Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
        Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.16.164
        Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.252.0
        Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :
        DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.16.6
        DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.16.6
        Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : 13 September 2010 09:36:48
        Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : 13 October 2010 09:36:48



route print
===========================================================================
Interface List
0x1 ........................... MS TCP Loopback interface
0x2 ...00 03 0d 2c b5 6f ...... SiS 900-Based PCI Fast Ethernet Adapter - Packet
 Scheduler Miniport
===========================================================================
===========================================================================
Active Routes:
Network Destination        Netmask          Gateway       Interface  Metric
        127.0.0.0        255.0.0.0        127.0.0.1       127.0.0.1       1
     192.168.16.0    255.255.252.0   192.168.16.164  192.168.16.164       20
   192.168.16.164  255.255.255.255        127.0.0.1       127.0.0.1       20
   192.168.16.255  255.255.255.255   192.168.16.164  192.168.16.164       20
        224.0.0.0        240.0.0.0   192.168.16.164  192.168.16.164       20
  255.255.255.255  255.255.255.255   192.168.16.164  192.168.16.164       1
===========================================================================
Persistent Routes:
  None

[game_over]

Great news,, I've went through our classroom manager software and realised we can do without the roles ISA Server provides.. that part of the software is barely used anyway and i can create a better emulation of what it already does...

I've realised all ISA Server does is assign links to different groups (of rooms), the web page then pulls the links from the ISA Server, showing as the home page when a client machine logs on.. I'm willing to drop ISA Server out of the equation, it's not worth it, providing it will still work..

So what i need to do is:

- eliminate the isa server

- put the main server back onto 10.83 network

- firewall settings changed from firewall(isa) to cachepilot

I've just been speaking to one of the tech guys about moving the network onto 10.83, he said i'd need weeks? 99.9% of our stuff is dynamic with only a couple of static devices mainly the servers.

[+BudMan MVC]

"'he said i'd need weeks?"

BS, at most you need a lunch hour.

Your clients settings are nonsense -- you don't point them to a gateway at all.. So the best I can assume is setup a proxy for them??? To what the ISA? That would be the only possible box you could talk to that can get off your network.

What about this software that needed the 192? again so your cachepilot only has 1 interface?? So its a 1 arm bandit proxy??

[game_over]

Sorry, the cachepilot has 2 interface but only LAN 1 is being used, there is nothing connected to LAN 2.

The software we use has 2 categories 'software management' and 'internet Management'. ISA is only required for internet management, which doesn't get used anyway, i've done some digging and i don't think the IP addresses would make any different for the 'software management' side of the software. Of course i'll need to test this first but it basically runs off the group policies so should be work just fine.

After removing the ISA server from the network, everything would go through the cachepilot. IP addresses should be assigned 10.83. instead of 192. to work with the original network set up. as mentioned above, before ISA we had:

10.87 = Admin Side

10.83 = Curriculum Side