official Star Wars: The Old Republic

[Twiddle]

Calm down there, bud.

I did play WoW in the beginning days. I played the game for roughly 7 years as well. And when I hit 60 in Vanilla, there was plenty to do. I never said I expected it to be like WoW, but WoW did have more quest content at Vanilla 60, than this does, which is 0.

Nothing you have done in WoW, I haven't. I can bet you on that. (Except Firelands, and most cataclysm stuff, cause I quit after a month of that and never looked back.)

(If you need some sort of proof, http://us.battle.net...is/Roija/simple That was my second mage on my second account. You can look at the achievements if you want for the Vanilla ones. My first account with my original mage who I had from the beginning was banned due to using WoWGlider, a bot, which I used on a priest. Not ashamed to admit it, I didn't wanna do the ball breaking level to 60 again, as we all remember, that took FOREVERRR.)

I have been playing MMO's since EQ in the 90's, so, yeah, I have experience under my belt.

I don't need an achievement system, but it does give incentive to go do goofy things. It's called side-content, and it helps give a game longevity. I also said I am a "stubborn" Star Wars fan, and that is what I was referring to. Most of my friends agree the game is lacking and there isn't much to do, but they are "stubborn" Star Wars fans who don't mind it, because it is Star Wars. I am a big fan too, just not enough to pay $15 a month. Whereas, they can justify it just because of the brand name. I don't.

This game was in development longer than any other MMO to date. So, yes, my expectations were high, as most were. They could have sacrificed some voice acting for more content and quests.

Either way, you are getting mad at me for no reason, over a game. I already said I enjoyed it but it is lacking so I have no desire to play. That I will come back and, I know Bioware has a great track record. So it will be great. But you can't get mad or blame me for having slightly higher expectations, for the sheer fact of the length of development for the game, and following it since it was (publicly) announced back in 07/08.

[Amarok]

http://www.wowwiki.com/Patches/1.x

Here is the patch notes, notice months later when the second raid was releaced, it was nto out at launch, but came close to 6 months later. molten Core the first raid ,was not out at launch. Neither was Ony, the psudo raid as it only was 1 boss.

ALL of Teir 1 and 2 droped randomly from MC, and there were not graphics for T2, just placeholders. Go find the origional Warlock T2, if its green Snake heads, its not Origional T2, the snake heads were done a LOOONG WAY AFTER.

It blows that i do not have screens anymore of the plaguelands, as they were roaming with lvl 100 infernals that one shot you as Plaguelands both east and west, were cloased as they were still building it.

So none of that WoW has tons of crap to do, WoW has tons of crap to do because it has YEARS WORTH OF CONTENT ALREADY. Stupid people arguing that a new game doesnt have as much as a game with 4 expansions and 8 years under its belt.

Whoa whoa ease up. It's not that serious. When you first hit level 60 in WoW there was a lot of stuff to do. There might not have been huge raids, but there was a lot of stuff to do. You could keep questing, you could go PvP (there was no reward for it back then, but it was fun.), you could do the elite quests that you missed, you could go do dungeons and even the dungeons had variety. You could zerg them in a raid group for loot or if you wanted a challenge you could do them the way they were intended as 5-mans. Scholomance was just one instance, but it was HUGE. Now in an MMO a dungeon is 15-20 minutes in and out and doesn't compare. Ony and MC were the only raids at one point, but they had some weight to them in that it took people FOREVER to actually kill Ony, and it took people forever and a day to kill Rag. So even though it wasn't much content it lasted longer. Also T1 didn't have original models at first either.

But the point is that WoW had content, there was stuff to do. It might not have been the best stuff in the world, but there was stuff to do. SWTOR was a good game, I liked it, but my server died and there was nothing at all for me to do with no other people around.

[Hell-In-A-Handbasket]

development time means nothing, take a look at Duke Nukem. everquest came out at the middle of 99, not fully the 90's, but mine was lineage 2 in 03, so you got 4 years on me if you started same with everquest... oh well if you played WoW since the begining days ( alot of people think the begining was Lich King or Crusade, or halfway through Vanilla. not 2004 ) and im only stating that because if you played it since 2004, it had just as much as SWTOR if not less content wise ( atm SWTOR has more BG's and Raids on launch then WoW did, wow had 0 BG's and 1 Raid months after as well as multiple CLOSED leveling areas and CONSTANT crash's where there were almost constant day credits issued. ), that you state it has more is what is making me think you didnt.

Dev time for WoW was about 5 years also.

but to each their own, you dont think its worth it, by all means dont sub. but somehow comming bakc months later and expecting a timewarp of content to appear just isnt going to happen.

[Hell-In-A-Handbasket]

you could go PvP

battlegrounds came out in 2005, months after releace, other then that it was World PvP and if you were lucky the Aerna, but ALOT of those were dead on servers, mainly pvp was around TM/SS. i was on Doomhammer ( and alot of the organized pvp i did was around the little rinkydink elvel town north of Org in the wooded area, i forget the name ). when people were PvPing, you couldnt enter the zone as it would crash that half of the contenent if to many people got in same zone. if it didnt crash it would lag out and you would get disconnected.

[Amarok]

battlegrounds came out in 2005, months after releace, other then that it was World PvP and if you were lucky the Aerna, but ALOT of those were dead on servers, mainly pvp was around TM/SS. i was on Doomhammer ( and alot of the organized pvp i did was around the little rinkydink elvel town north of Org in the wooded area, i forget the name ). when people were PvPing, you couldnt enter the zone as it would crash that half of the contenent if to many people got in same zone. if it didnt crash it would lag out and you would get disconnected.

I know when battlegrounds came out, hence my comment about not getting any reward for PvPing at that point. That doesn't mean that it wasn't something to do. It was something to do. You got to level 60 and felt like pvping so you'd to go TM/SS or the alliance would raid that horde outpost on the eastern side of Ashenvale or the horde would take Auberdine or whatever it was called. None of us got any rewards for it, but there were nights where people would do that for hours just because it was fun.

The problem is that you're assuming that all content is created equal and it's not. It's just not. Look at one of vanilla WoW's instances vs one of SWTOR's. SWTOR's are more modern by far, and by that I mean they're very streamlined and they're short. But in '04/05 that wasn't how dungeons worked in MMOs. Scholo/Strath/LBRS/etc took ages to finish. So even though there weren't that many of them they gave you stuff to do for a significant amount of time. Same thing with the raids. You got to level cap and then you started your Onyxia chain, and that took forever and a day and then you would go and wipe repeatedly on Ony because at the time it was hard. Same with MC. I'm not saying that it's hands down better, but you could get more out of it. SWTOR hasn't been out that long, and everyone I know is "done with it" - I stopped my subscription until they implement transfers so that I could move to the server that most of my friends are on, and they've already done everything and have no interest in playing anymore. :/ In WoW or EQ/EQ2 you could take a break for a month and come back and your group of friends would still be doing stuff. My group of friends has nothing left to do because they did it all. In a month.

[CUBBYJR2005]

Calm down there, bud.

I did play WoW in the beginning days. I played the game for roughly 7 years as well. And when I hit 60 in Vanilla, there was plenty to do. I never said I expected it to be like WoW, but WoW did have more quest content at Vanilla 60, than this does, which is 0.

Nothing you have done in WoW, I haven't. I can bet you on that. (Except Firelands, and most cataclysm stuff, cause I quit after a month of that and never looked back.)

(If you need some sort of proof, http://us.battle.net...is/Roija/simple That was my second mage on my second account. You can look at the achievements if you want for the Vanilla ones. My first account with my original mage who I had from the beginning was banned due to using WoWGlider, a bot, which I used on a priest. Not ashamed to admit it, I didn't wanna do the ball breaking level to 60 again, as we all remember, that took FOREVERRR.)

I have been playing MMO's since EQ in the 90's, so, yeah, I have experience under my belt.

I don't need an achievement system, but it does give incentive to go do goofy things. It's called side-content, and it helps give a game longevity. I also said I am a "stubborn" Star Wars fan, and that is what I was referring to. Most of my friends agree the game is lacking and there isn't much to do, but they are "stubborn" Star Wars fans who don't mind it, because it is Star Wars. I am a big fan too, just not enough to pay $15 a month. Whereas, they can justify it just because of the brand name. I don't.

This game was in development longer than any other MMO to date. So, yes, my expectations were high, as most were. They could have sacrificed some voice acting for more content and quests.

Either way, you are getting mad at me for no reason, over a game. I already said I enjoyed it but it is lacking so I have no desire to play. That I will come back and, I know Bioware has a great track record. So it will be great. But you can't get mad or blame me for having slightly higher expectations, for the sheer fact of the length of development for the game, and following it since it was (publicly) announced back in 07/08.

Zappa you got to remember one thing world of warcraft and other mmos were in development years before they came out and world of warcraft did'nt have everything at launch.You need to give the game time it just came out recently it not even 6 months old yet.

[Hell-In-A-Handbasket]

Ony chain took a day, if that. Completed min in less as i wasnt running all around desolace finding rex, knew where he was from warloks Track Demons. My class mount took longer.

People were clearing the dungeons that Long were not at level cap, i did the raids of UBRS and Scholo, it took longer to find somebody with the key then to run the place i was one of the FEW on doomhammer horde that actually had the key for UBRS and Scholo, people would pay me alot of gold so i would stop what i was doing and open those 2 instances up.

The last instanse i did in SWTOR was i think foundry, that took twice as long as an instance iv done in wow. Ony wasnt hard, the only hard part was because her deep breaths were always bugged, and it was hard not getting a bugged version.

You can go on and on about how WoW is better then SWTOR, but your full of crap. SWTOR has the same as WoW when it was launched. Its not my fault your expectations from years of WoW doesnt carry over to a month old game

And i can prove when i started WoW, Dec of 2004 didnt activate soon er as the 12+ hour queues that people some how forgot about across a majority of the less then 10 servers was a turnoff and i waited for them to calm down.

* edit - aparently acording to wiki there were 88 servers,,, for some reason i remember about 10, there was nowhere near 88

[Kirkburn]

* edit - aparently acording to wiki there were 88 servers,,, for some reason i remember about 10, there was nowhere near 88

88 sounds more correct to me, tbh. Certainly in the first few weeks the number of servers increased very rapidly, but I'm pretty sure it didn't start with as low as 10.

Also, I have to agree that you cannot expect SW:TOR to have the same amount of content as WoW atm, otherwise we wouldn't see it for another two years. But that doesn't mean it doesn't have 'enough' content. For one, there's much more variation in class experience than in WoW - you can't take a single class on each side to max level and experience everything, which you basically can in WoW (which I've done).

Besides, someone starting today in WoW would normally miss 50% of the content because it's no longer relevant - e.g. half of Outland and half of Northrend, plus most of the old raids. Those can't really factor into a comparison.

SW:TOR certainly has enough content to make me want to buy it. Which I will, eventually.

[Hell-In-A-Handbasket]

I agree. Also People are not only missing out on content because its irrelivant, but because Blizz took it out. but the origional content is what SHOULD be put into comparision, how WoW was at launch, its launch dungeons. Because if your going to compare 1 game at launh to another, then you need to compare its launch. Not a game years into compared to a launch game. Its not not fair comparisons.

And i will agree to the class variation in SWTOR, but the variation is only main storyline. The other quests are pretty much the same onec you get off starting planets.

[Joseph B]

People forget how buggy EQ1, Ultima, WoW, etc were at launch...

The difference is:

This is 2012, not 2001-2004. Completely different standard was set by other MMOs.

[DrunkenBeard]

I agree. Also People are not only missing out on content because its irrelivant, but because Blizz took it out. but the origional content is what SHOULD be put into comparision, how WoW was at launch, its launch dungeons. Because if your going to compare 1 game at launh to another, then you need to compare its launch. Not a game years into compared to a launch game. Its not not fair comparisons.

Haha, if only we had more customers like you ! Ours don't care that we are a new company or that the product is still early in its life-cycle or that we aren't familiar with all the little tricks yet. You released your product in a particular market ? You better be at least as good as the other products in their current form ! If you can't, and you don't have any other redeeming aspect (low price, some particular feature, etc.) you can die a slow death while everyone ignores you. That's how rational customers work, they go for what is best.

While you can obviously give Bioware a pass for content quantity, you absolutely can't do that for quality. They had all the time to learn and adapt, yet they chose to take no risks at all. Same formula as every other archaic MMO, and please don't say that it's how the genre is and no one can do anything about it. A lot of companies are trying new things, look at Guild Wars 2, hell even ancient World of Warcraft is renewing itself with Mists of Pandaria and going for new gameplay and a new approach to talents. Why should I stick with a game that can neither innovate nor implement basic functionality from other games ? It just doesn't make any sense from a rational point of view.

As for combat logs, addons and macros. For some reason you quickly jumped to the conclusion that I was comparing the game to WoW in my previous post. I was not. I am comparing the game to my expectations. My expectations are the way they are after playing numerous MMOs and getting used to a certain Quality of Life. Combat logs are necessary for any high-end raiding guild unless you're going to make the raids trivial, it has nothing to do with DPS bragging rights or whatever, a combat log is a way to review the fight and learn from your mistakes.

Addons have lots of purposes which again aren't specific to combat. I like to play the AH, I use addons to track prices and deduce trends. I use addons to keep track of certain items that I need and where I should get them. I use addons that tell me the chances of getting a specific material from disenchanting or prospecting. I can go on and on, but addons do what they are supposed to do : improve quality of life. Now of course some may be too permissive and it's Bioware's role to suspend those or to add restrictions to its API.

Macros are very usefu. Not essential, but very useful. They certainly aren't as necessary for me as addons but still you can appreciate a focus macro if you've ever done some PvP.

I guess I'll never understand how people can get so defensive over a brand.

[Hell-In-A-Handbasket]

.

Yes i was concluding that you were comparing it to wow,, because wow is the only game that has those things.

I play SWTOR because i like to play it in its current form.

If you dont, so be it, go back to wow, i know i wont miss you. And i know alot of others wont also.

I dont want Combat Logs, as it stands now, its not about the meters, which is nice. You (generalized) cant throw your Epeen around going " look at me i got highest dps, still a dumbass that cant pay attention to mechanis though ". I dont want to see it, and dont care. So a video game is the only way to brag because your (generalized) to pathetic IRL you need a game to feel secure and good about yourself (generalized). So what.

As far as defensive, im defensive that people dont accept stuff for what they are and bitch and moan that its not everything they expect for them, welcome to the realworld, make your own game if you can do better, oh thats right, you cant.

Im not specifically defensive over SWTOR or Bioware, hell i was borderline on quitting last night, but it wasnt because of the game, it was from the morons that have no idea what teamwork is, and other greedy ******* that somehow think a video game will make them popular IRL be ause they are so insecure

Why IRL i openly hold the opinion of the stupidity and patheticness of the human race, and cant wait till they blow themselves up and move aside for something less greedy.

Literally you ( not generalized ), dont like it, dont play it, go play something you like.

* EDIT - every instance i have done during boss fights in SWTOR or Lineage 2, ect ( any game that doesnt have what you are askingn for ) when a boss does its thing, people pay attention.

I have YET to see a SWTOR player not move out of AOE on a new boss that they have never done before After the second spell. Because people are actually paying attention to what they are doing, not their dam meter. And that was the same back in Lineage 2 years ago.

I dont want Cookie Cutter Builds, i dont want everybody looking and acting the same due to rotations. And gear standards. You all bitch about " its all generic at end game, we all look the same, and fights are the same"

Yea fights are the same because your looking at a DPS meter and have mods giving instructions second by second, yea it does look the same when you spreadsheet the dam thing. Yea you look like joe blow generic because you create it that way. Yet you bitch because of it

you are the people that ruined WoW for me. Your currently ruining Star Wars.

[Xilo]

Editor fail AGAIN. Don't feel like retyping...

[Twiddle]

Im not specifically defensive over SWTOR

All your posts say otherwise.

You are very defensive, and it isn't just "your" game. Other people want to enjoy it too, but it is clearly lacking in many departments, whereas some it shines.

[Hell-In-A-Handbasket]

All your posts say otherwise.

You are very defensive, and it isn't just "your" game. Other people want to enjoy it too, but it is clearly lacking in many departments, whereas some it shines.

When i said specifically not SWTOR, i meant not specifically SWTOR, i will be defensive over any game i play, if im playing it, i like playing it. I dont play a game and moan that its not something else. I was defenseive over STO, and still am. Because i accept it and the Klingon Content for what it is. Yes i would like more stuff to do regardign Klingons, but if it doesnt come then so be it, ill move on. I wont bitch and moan otherwise.

I know its not just my game, but if you think its lacking in many department its obviously not yoru game either, would recomend finding one you like, if your not happy with something, bound to continue not being happy with it regardless. As if its not one thing, it will be another.

No, other people , you included, dont want to enjoy it, you want to enjoy The game you want to turn it into.

[Twiddle]

I know its not just my game, but if you think its lacking in many department its obviously not yoru game either, would recomend finding one you like, if your not happy with something, bound to continue not being happy with it regardless. As if its not one thing, it will be another.

No, other people , you included, dont want to enjoy it, you want to enjoy The game you want to turn it into.

Wait, what? MMOs progress, advance, change, and mold into something different overtime, that is just what they do. That attitude of "go find something else, nothing wrong here," doesn't fly anymore with MMOs, especially for the masses. There is a lot wrong, but there is a lot right. No matter what they can always improve and I expect they shall.

I want to enjoy it, but the enjoyment is no longer there after 2 months. And yes, the game is going to change, whether it is something you want it to change or not. I am waiting for that change and until then, I am putting my subscription on hold.

Also, they already stated before December was even up, that they were implementing damage meters, and a combat log, it was just a work in progress. Bioware said it was something they wanted to do, built in-game.

You keep commenting as if I personally hate the game, and I don't. I enjoyed it for what it was. It just needs more, and that is clear. Luckily, it is an MMO, and that is how MMOs work, they get more. I will re-sub when they do, because I enjoy the game.

[Hell-In-A-Handbasket]

Also, they already stated before December was even up, that they were implementing damage meters, and a combat log, it was just a work in progress. Bioware said it was something they wanted to do, built in-game.

You keep commenting as if I personally hate the game, and I don't. I enjoyed it for what it was. It just needs more, and that is clear. Luckily, it is an MMO, and that is how MMOs work, they get more. I will re-sub when they do, because I enjoy the game.

They stated that there will bea. BASIC meter and combat log and that it will not be exportable or avaliable out of game, it wont be a full dps or Log. And they said that they DIDNT want it and mods ingame, they never said they wanted it. They specifically said during an intervew they do not want to cater to the hardcore, and did not want the mentality and spreadsheeting that comes with DPS meters and mods, that they DIDNT want to trivialize the encounters like DBM did with Wow. That they DIDNT want mods to be required to play or be invited

And games change yes, they evolve yes. They do not and should not become other games. If i wanted to play Age of Conan, LOTR, WAR, WoW, ill go play those.

And if they bring out moddability, Meters and all the other crap from WoW people want into SWTOR, then i wont play it, i dont want to play WoW, dont want to deal with the WoW mentality. I play SWTOR and Accept SWTOR for what it is, not what i want to turn it into, if i want to turn it into another game, ill go play that game.

Literally name off each and every change you want in the game, then put the game its in as an example?

[Twiddle]

I honestly don't care if they add mods or not. That was never my complaint. It was that other fella's in this thread. I just want a UI scale option, in that regard. If they do add mods, great, if they don't, great. I honestly don't care.

All I said from the beginning was I wanted more at end-game. More content for level 50s, and definitely more quests and zones. And some variety, instead of the same 4 regular mob packs, or 1 strong 2 weak, etc etc...

[Hell-In-A-Handbasket]

I honestly don't care if they add mods or not. That was never my complaint. It was that other fella's in this thread. I just want a UI scale option, in that regard.

All I said from the beginning was I wanted more at end-game. More content for level 50s, and definitely more quests and zones. And some variety, instead of the same 4 regular mob packs, or 1 strong 2 weak, etc etc...

UI scale was suposedly added in yesterdays patch. But i cant find it. Read people complaining about it, but no idea where it is.

As far as content, it will come, as iv said previously, there is as much to do in SWTOR as there was during the launch of WoW, Aion,Lineage2,CoH,Conan when i played those launches. There is definatly alot more then the launch of STO, heck, there ia still more stuff in SWTOR then after 1Yr of STO.

But lack of content falls under my argument of people expecting the comtent of years old games in a 1mo old product.

ALSO if you played the Mass Beta of SWTOR, you knew EXACTIALLY whay you were getting, there is never major changes during a mass beta. If it hit Open Beta, or even a large scale beta, its already Gold, your getting what you see.

*edit - also they stated that the game is not " Endgame " they stated the game does not start there.

Im starting to belive more and more that people dont do research on a game, listen and read devs and interviews. Just go by what joe blow said. As alot of the quotes about mods and meters, content, ect,ect. In interviews and Dev reports say the oposite.

[Twiddle]

Im starting to belive more and more that people dont do research on a game, listen and read devs and interviews. Just go by what joe blow said. As alot of the quotes about mods and meters, content, ect,ect. In interviews and Dev reports say the oposite.

I don't fall into this category. Even though I don't play anymore, currently, I still follow almost every game related thread, on the Dev Tracker. I have since launch and prior. I also have kept up with almost every news article, and front page developer notes and articles prior to release. Like I said, I was highly anticipating this game.

Either way, we clearly remember different things about MMO launches, considering we both have stated we participated in a lot of them in the recent years. With this disagreement, we can go in circles for days/weeks back and forth. We should just agree to disagree on certain things, and let it be. You enjoy the game, and in its current state I do not. My expectations were slightly higher, and I think Bioware resources should have been allocated on different parts of the game.

I'll come back to the game at a later date, and check it out. I will at least always come back when they release main character story content, because I want to see what happens with my characters story, and future planets/quests. Just treat it like a single player game with content added over time, and re-sub whenever they add more. My guild will still be there I'm sure, at least some of them, so I can experience any new multi-player content added.

[Tharp Daddy]

I find it's getting harder and harder to bring myself to play this game. The story seems to be well done, but of the two i've played (Imperial Agent to level 20, BH to level 17) neither has really drawn me in. It's like a story from a usual Bioware game, except it feels like they shove in 20+ side quests before you can move forward with your story -- which is not Bioware's fault, that's the nature of an MMO. I've never been a large fan of the Star Wars universe, can't pin down why, but that may play a part in my lost interest. I'm also disheartened by, what i feel, is a lack of motivation for leveling. There's not much of an endgame at the moment, PvP seems lackluster, etc. I may subscribe again somewhere down the line, but i can't help but feel that I should just resubscribe to Rift. I see consistent and large content updates from them, and they seem to have really good ideas.

TL;DR: I'm not a large Star Wars fan, and i am likely going to unsubscribe.

[HawkMan]

huh. The side quests are entirely optional, you get enough XP to play through the game on just the main quests, though some classes may need some help from friends on some of the bosses. but otherwise you're good to go. if you Also take the planetary bonus series on each planet (they're big story quests for each planet like your own class quest) then you pretty much don't need friends either as you level fast enough.

and at 20 youre class quest hasn't even really started, you also picked the two most similar classes of the empire side.

[G_0]

This game really started ****ing me off after the last patch. Focus button not working as intended makes healing more demanding then it should be. Also, skills on my bar magically multiplying and taking over ones that I use WHILE IN COMBAT (!?!?!?!?!) and also skills magically appearing on my mouse cursor that weren't even on my bar to begin with. Full room pulls while going after specific mobs are getting redundant, and you know it's 1 mob that's glitched because if you kill that magic mob, when you finally die and rez you can do the room properly.

I'm really hoping this stupid stuff will get fixed as I'm not the only one with this problem. The story is AMAZING, absolutely. But when I can't continue it because game mechanics are broken I'm going to start looking at the cancel button.

This is from a guy who LOVES the class story and 2 days ago I would have told you to buy the game (even with focus issues at that point)

[Osiris]

huh. The side quests are entirely optional

LOL. Having levelled 2 to 50 and started my third I can safely say they really arent. They become more optional the more FP's, pvp or spacecombat you do. Heroics are completely optional though. Bonus series for Republic is early on, later on cant escape it. Opposite for Imperial imo.

Failing a good cut of those and they are not optional. There is little in the way of the class quests, the majority of the game is side quests like everyother mmo with the addition of voice overs. Which I do think makes it more enjoyable but at its core its still the standard mmo formula of main plot with a lot of filler quests.

[Hell-In-A-Handbasket]

just cancled subscription, the amount of A**hole Morons that dont know what Objective >>>>TEAM <<<<< Play is is astounding, it takes 3 DAYS to do a DAILY PvP, because idiots think this is Call of Duty