official F1 World Championship 2011 Thread

[Subject Delta]

i go as far as i say i wouldnt be surprised if alonso is behind this. ALWAYS and in every team he goes he brings his oversized ego and loads of unrest in the team.

now ferrari has to do without technical director this season. you read it here first, next to go is tombazis, smedley, massa and last domenicali.

then santanderlonso will maybe force in briatore as team principal.

So wait, it's the driver's fault that the team can't make a fast enough car?

[simonlang]

So wait, it's the driver's fault that the team can't make a fast enough car?

i never said that.

[ghostrider86]

Can someone tell me why there is a one day break between practices and qualifications? They have some holiday going on there...?

[what]

Can someone tell me why there is a one day break between practices and qualifications? They have some holiday going on there...?

Friday is market day in Monaco.

[ghostrider86]

Friday is market day in Monaco.

Thank you. :)

[san.W10]

Red Bull revises pitstop procedures

Red Bull Racing has revised its pitstop procedures ahead of the Monaco Grand Prix, after rival Ferrari shadowed its moves in Spain last weekend.

Mark Webber got trapped behind Fernando Alonso for much of the race in Barcelona - and was unable to jump the Ferrari through strategy after the Italian team called its Spanish driver in every time Webber headed for the pits.

Ferrari's efficiency in copying Red Bull Racing's tactics prompted wild claims from Red Bull's motor sport advisor Helmut Marko that its Maranello-based team was spying on it by hacking its team radio.

Although those views are not shared by other senior team personnel, Red Bull Racing team principal Christian Horner has no doubts that Ferrari was using legitimate means to copy his team's tactics ? which is why it has reacted to ensure it cannot be caught out in a similar fashion again.

"Pitstops are all part of the game and Ferrari's only way to beat Mark was to cover him in the pitstops," explained Horner in Monaco on Wednesday.

"They saw something we were doing that was giving away when we were going to stop, and would call Fernando in ? because it couldn't be coincidence that he just happened to stop every time that we called Mark in. That is within the regulations.

"In the end, we made a dummy call. Fernando came in and Mark stayed out, but unfortunately by that time, he had lost so much time to Jenson [button] and Lewis [Hamilton] that the podium was not possible.

"But it is all part of the game and all part of being a team sport ? it is only like a dummy pass in a rugby match or any other sporting activity."

Horner said that with some of the team's radio calls to Webber coming at the very last second, the only way that Ferrari could have reacted with its car ahead on the road was if the team had spotted a pre-pitstop action in the Red Bull garage.

"That is why we have changed our procedures this weekend," he said. "I don't know if mechanics were putting their hands in their pockets at the wrong time, or it was someone picking a tyre up.

"But anyway, we have changed our procedures this weekend to be less transparent."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/91708

more trouble for FArrari now that RBR is aware of their "strategy" :rofl:

About FArrari team reshuffle -

instead of working out a solution FArrari with the key people, they are firing them.

FA trying to be MS @ ferrari failing.

Ferrari is not what it used to be after the last (key) person of Dream Team left, MS himself :p , till then atleast they were WC contenders & atleast Massa became 15second World Champion before Ferrari became FArrari, but now he has been struggling to even score a point.

[simonlang]

atleast Massa became 15second World Champion before Ferrari became FArrari, but now he has been struggling to even score a point.

this makes me wonder, if ferrari is run the right way?

imho you can run a team several different ways:

- focus on car performance only. every update is installed on the car, if it makes it faster. and there is no difference made if it suits your nr1 driver more or your nr2 driver more. it is on the car if it makes the car faster. this could be seen very well in 2008, when first the car was suited more to raikkonen, but then a brand new front suspension made it faster but also more towards massas driving style who then started a nice series of wins and poles to become wdc leader.

this is also what happend at mclaren in 2007 and i could name out a few other examples.

- focus on your nr1 driver foremost. this is imho what ferrari is doing now. if the updates are in danger to suit your nr2 driver more, they get reduced to basics, or not on the car at all. in an even more extreme way, they could start to develop updates ONLY with driver 1 likings/driving style in mind. this leads to a big gap between 2 team mates but also to a slower car, sometimes even undrivable car and - this is what happens to ferrari now - a complete loss in direction of developping the car.

yes, we have the f150th italia now suiting alonso pretty much and is undrivable for massa who spins during the race and is becoming ridiculous, but i blame not massa for it he has shown too much the last years, and maybe even ferrari know they are doing wrong. i blame alonso and the santander sponsorship. they want to see certain things and they get it. shame is only, the usual spectator doesnt know why and how and believes that alonso is god and massa sucks.

[+Frank B. Subscriber²]

Vettel quickest in opening practice

Sebastian Vettel edged out Fernando Alonso in a late battle for the honour of being fastest in the opening practice session for the Monaco Grand Prix.

Both set their fastest laps moments apart in the closing seconds, with Vettel's 1m16.619s for Red Bull sufficient to nip ahead of his Ferrari rival by 0.113 seconds.

Nico Rosberg was third for Mercedes, followed by Alonso's team-mate Felipe Massa and the two McLarens.

But last year's winner Mark Webber did not have a good start to his weekend. A gearbox issue on his Red Bull meant he only completed three slow installation laps and did not set a time.

Unsurprisingly as circuit conditions got ever better, a string of different drivers topped the times during the session, with both Ferraris, Hamilton and Vettel leading the way before Rosberg put Mercedes on top going into the final five minutes. He could not stay there once Alonso and Vettel launched their last runs though, and ended up half a second down in third.

Behind Massa, Lewis Hamilton was just ahead of McLaren team-mate Jenson Button in fifth.

Pastor Maldonado - who has an outstanding record in Monaco from his junior career - showed similar form on his first taste of the circuit in a Formula 1 car, taking a very promising seventh for Williams.

Two drivers found the barriers during the session, the first being Tonio Liuzzi, who crashed his Hispania on the approach to the chicane.

The other accident was courtesy of Michael Schumacher. He locked up on the approach to Sainte Devote, appeared to make a late decision to try and take to the escape road, but ended up spinning sideways into the barriers. Hispania's Narain Karthikeyan went off in sympathy as he watched the incident, though the Indian avoided contact.

Both of those incidents were swiftly cleared away with no need for a stoppage, but there was a five-minute red flag mid-session while the officials investigated a puddle of water that had appeared under the flagstand on the main straight, seemingly from an under-surface leak.

Pos  Driver                Team                      Time             Laps
 1.  Sebastian Vettel      Red Bull-Renault          1m16.619s          25
 2.  Fernando Alonso       Ferrari                   1m16.732s  + 0.113	24
 3.  Nico Rosberg          Mercedes                  1m17.139s  + 0.520	20
 4.  Felipe Massa          Ferrari                   1m17.316s  + 0.697	24
 5.  Lewis Hamilton        McLaren-Mercedes          1m17.350s  + 0.731	23
 6.  Jenson Button         McLaren-Mercedes          1m17.534s  + 0.915	24
 7.  Pastor Maldonado      Williams-Cosworth         1m18.527s  + 1.908	30
 8.  Adrian Sutil          Force India-Mercedes      1m18.578s  + 1.959	24
 9.  Vitaly Petrov         Renault                   1m18.733s  + 2.114	16
10.  Michael Schumacher    Mercedes                  1m18.805s  + 2.186	14
11.  Nick Heidfeld         Renault                   1m18.928s  + 2.309	19
12.  Sebastien Buemi       Toro Rosso-Ferrari        1m19.234s  + 2.615	24
13.  Rubens Barrichello    Williams-Cosworth         1m19.395s  + 2.776	24
14.  Daniel Ricciardo      Toro Rosso-Ferrari        1m19.463s  + 2.844	25
15.  Kamui Kobayashi       Sauber-Ferrari            1m19.768s  + 3.149	25
16.  Sergio Perez          Sauber-Ferrari            1m19.792s  + 3.173	26
17.  Heikki Kovalainen     Lotus-Renault             1m20.083s  + 3.464	23
18.  Jarno Trulli          Lotus-Renault             1m21.116s  + 4.497	27
19.  Paul di Resta         Force India-Mercedes      1m21.548s  + 4.929	32
20.  Jerome D'Ambrosio     Virgin-Cosworth           1m21.758s  + 5.139	31
21.  Timo Glock            Virgin-Cosworth           1m21.815s  + 5.196	17
22.  Tonio Liuzzi          HRT-Cosworth              1m22.840s  + 6.221	13
23.  Narain Karthikeyan    HRT-Cosworth              1m23.885s  + 7.266	37
24.  Mark Webber           Red Bull-Renault          No time             3

All Timing Unofficial

Source: Autosport

[+Frank B. Subscriber²]

[san.W10]

well atleast FA can say he brought Ferrari "sixth tenth", atleast between his team mate :p

anyways, nice to see Massa in top 6, & really nice to see a Merc in top 3 again.

btw, what kind of technical output is Pirelli getting from such fast degrading tires?

theres' no way its any kind of help for road car tyre dev., dunno what the hell they're doin.

Bridgestone had, i think hit the sweet spot in tyre performance & wear, but races got boring, i blame refueling ban for that.

[san.W10]

:rofl:

http://forums.autosport.com/index.php?showtopic=135088&pid=5049392&st=1240entry5049392

[Subject Delta]

well atleast FA can say he brought Ferrari "sixth tenth", atleast between his team mate :p

anyways, nice to see Massa in top 6, & really nice to see a Merc in top 3 again.

btw, what kind of technical output is Pirelli getting from such fast degrading tires?

theres' no way its any kind of help for road car tyre dev., dunno what the hell they're doin.

Bridgestone had, i think hit the sweet spot in tyre performance & wear, but races got boring, i blame refueling ban for that.

Pirelli aren't gaining any data because they never had the intention to. There is absolutely no road relevance to ANY racing tyres, because the design is diametrically opposed to what you'd get in a road tyre. The tyres are degrading quickly because Pirelli were asked to design them that way by the FIA to spice the racing up and make the races more strategically interesting.

[simonlang]

Pirelli aren't gaining any data because they never had the intention to. There is absolutely no road relevance to ANY racing tyres, because the design is diametrically opposed to what you'd get in a road tyre. The tyres are degrading quickly because Pirelli were asked to design them that way by the FIA to spice the racing up and make the races more strategically interesting.

this. and lets not forget the argument, that whatever car wins it wins with pirelli tires anyway. so it doesnt matter if they made these boring linear degrading tires like bridgestone used to do last year (which assisted only drivers with granny-like driving styles such as webber and alonso and penalized heavily real racers as vettel and hamilton) or tires which you have to feel and read in every corner in every lap to get out the best performance possible.

2011 races >>>>> 2010 races by a BIG margin imho. with 2010 rules vettel would have most likely won all races and with a big gap between him and 2nd placed webber. others would stand no chance.

[+Frank B. Subscriber²]

Court rules Lotus have right to use name ?Team Lotus?

Lotus have won the right to continue using the name ?Team Lotus? in F1.

Justice Peter Smith dismissed Group Lotus?s claim to the Team Lotus name and roundel design.

He also ruled that Lotus?s use of the name ?Team Lotu?s does not infringe Group Lotus?s trade marks in the name Lotus.

Their use of the name had been contested by Group Lotus, who make Lotus road cars and sponsor the Renault F1 team.

Last year Lotus used the name ?Lotus Racing? under license from Group Lotus, until it was withdrawn. Lotus bought the rights to the name ?Team Lotus? from David Hunt, who had acquired them when the original team collapsed at the end of 1994.

Lotus team principal Tony Fernandes wrote on Twitter: ?We won. I?m over the moon. Team Lotus belongs to us. Our chassis name stays Lotus. No one can use the chassis name. We are the only Lotus. Team Lotus?

Group Lotus said they would appeal the decision. However they described the verdict as a ?win on key issues? in a statement.

Sarah Price, lead of legal at Group Lotus, said: ?Group Lotus is pleased that its right to race under the Lotus name in F1 has been upheld and that the Defendants? attempts to stop that have failed.

?The on-going dispute with Team Lotus and associated companies has been a cause for concern for all at Group Lotus. Despite the detailed judgment there are issues which still require clarification and we remain committed to obtaining this much needed clarity for the many fans of the Lotus marque ? we are extremely grateful for their continued support. The decision to appeal has not been taken lightly.?

The statement noted: ?The judge also found that Team Lotus has the right to continue to race in Formula 1 under the name Team Lotus but the effect of the judgement is that only Group Lotus can use the name ?Lotus? on its own in F1.

?Group Lotus is concerned that this aspect of the judgement will cause confusion in the eyes of spectators and the wider public. Accordingly, Group Lotus is seeking leave to appeal so that the right to use the Lotus brand in Formula 1 is clarified once and for all in the interests of the sport and the fans. Group Lotus and its shareholder Proton Holding Bhd are confident of success on appeal.?

Source: F1Fanatic.co.uk

[Subject Delta]

this. and lets not forget the argument, that whatever car wins it wins with pirelli tires anyway. so it doesnt matter if they made these boring linear degrading tires like bridgestone used to do last year (which assisted only drivers with granny-like driving styles such as webber and alonso and penalized heavily real racers as vettel and hamilton) or tires which you have to feel and read in every corner in every lap to get out the best performance possible.

2011 races >>>>> 2010 races by a BIG margin imho. with 2010 rules vettel would have most likely won all races and with a big gap between him and 2nd placed webber. others would stand no chance.

In reality, the compound of the tyres doesn't make all that much difference, more aggressive drivers will still wear through their tyres more quickly whether they are engineered to last 10 laps or 100, it's not about the construction of the tyre it's about how much energy the driver is able to put into it, the more energy you put in the more quickly it degrades.

[TheLegendOfMart]

Court rules Lotus have right to use name ?Team Lotus?

Lotus have won the right to continue using the name ?Team Lotus? in F1.

Awesome news I was hoping sense would prevail. Im a big fan of Fernandes, Gascoyne and Kovaleinen

[+Frank B. Subscriber²]

The full casus Lotus verdict: http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Ch/2011/1366.html

[simonlang]

In reality, the compound of the tyres doesn't make all that much difference, more aggressive drivers will still wear through their tyres more quickly whether they are engineered to last 10 laps or 100, it's not about the construction of the tyre it's about how much energy the driver is able to put into it, the more energy you put in the more quickly it degrades.

i disagree. by your theory tire-heavy drivers like vettel and hamilton should be nowhere this year as the pirelli tire never forgives you a late braking or overpushing in a single corner. the pirelli tire never comes back after it. so, you have to be somewhat carefull. but on the other hand it doesnt advantages those who are said to be very easy on the tire like button.

they are not lapping and leading the pack but instead the difference between button and hamilton at this stage of the year has increased compared to last year when they used bridgestone tires.

im still trying to get behind the pirelli tires. i think, it somewhat advantages those drivers who have the best "feeling" for a tire and the complete car and manage to get a clean and good setup over the practises.

that would go along with the perception that hamilton and vettel are kinda natural racers. racing is in their blood.

webber and alonso are said to be more setup dependant and more car dependant - stability wise. changing conditions are a no no for them. they were good last year when you could see bridgestone tires degrading very slowly and always the same way. so they knew what will happen and could adapt.

its like you know you only pass the street when the lights go green.

undecided with button tho. either he is not as easy on tires as everyone claims he is, or the mp4/26 needs a special setup. this would go along with the fact that the car bases on a very different aero concept. (low nose, special sidepods - actually its the ONLY car not based on rb6 and still very fast so i tend to believe the latter)

this leaves out two of the undoubtly fastest racing drivers ever. michael schumacher and felipe massa. these both impressed in ferrari days with bridgestone (grooved) tires. i still miss those tires btw. i think, contrary to most, the cars looked amazing with these tires and obviously they had quite a big ammount of grip.

so why cant they cope with the new pirelli tires? schumacher = too old? massa = not the same as before his accident?

i would like to have it that simple, but i just dont buy that.

any ideas?

[Subject Delta]

i disagree. by your theory tire-heavy drivers like vettel and hamilton should be nowhere this year as the pirelli tire never forgives you a late braking or overpushing in a single corner. the pirelli tire never comes back after it. so, you have to be somewhat carefull. but on the other hand it doesnt advantages those who are said to be very easy on the tire like button.

they are not lapping and leading the pack but instead the difference between button and hamilton at this stage of the year has increased compared to last year when they used bridgestone tires.

Disagree all you want, it's a fact. Energy being put through the tyres is what causes them to wear out, that's a fact, and a driver that puts more energy through a tyre will always wear it out more quickly. How late you are able to break has more to do with the mechanical setup of the car than the ability of the person driving it, and overpushing in any corner would cause any driver to loose grip once you pass the point of adhesion. As for flatspotting, your assertion that only drivers like Hamilton flatspot their tyres is wrong, a lot of drivers do it.

webber and alonso are said to be more setup dependant and more car dependant - stability wise. changing conditions are a no no for them. they were good last year when you could see bridgestone tires degrading very slowly and always the same way. so they knew what will happen and could adapt.

its like you know you only pass the street when the lights go green.

That isn't really true, certainly not for Alonso, I have seen him pull great results from pretty average cars before, and in bad conditions

undecided with button tho. either he is not as easy on tires as everyone claims he is, or the mp4/26 needs a special setup. this would go along with the fact that the car bases on a very different aero concept. (low nose, special sidepods - actually its the ONLY car not based on rb6 and still very fast so i tend to believe the latter)

That's not true either, the red bull car runs with a different rake angle to the other cars, that's part of the reason why it's nose comes so low to the ground when it's under high aero load. None of the cars are based on the RB6, they all use their own designs.

this leaves out two of the undoubtly fastest racing drivers ever. michael schumacher and felipe massa. these both impressed in ferrari days with bridgestone (grooved) tires. i still miss those tires btw. i think, contrary to most, the cars looked amazing with these tires and obviously they had quite a big ammount of grip.

Massa, one of the fastest drivers ever? what have you been smoking :/

The reason the cars have lost grip is due to the changes in Formula 1's aerodynamic rules. If you took a 2008 spec car and put 2010 spec slicks on it, it would be a lot quicker than it would be on the 2008 spec grooved tyres.

so why cant they cope with the new pirelli tires? schumacher = too old? massa = not the same as before his accident?

i would like to have it that simple, but i just dont buy that.

any ideas?

Schumacher's past his best, and Massa is nothing like as good as you seem to think he is. It's not about the tyres, in fact if anything the design of the 2011 Pirelli tyres should suit Schumi and Massa, they give far better front end grip than the bridgestones.

[TheLegendOfMart]

Damn Rosberg just had a nasty crash, he come flying out of the tunnel and a bump made the car bottom out he slid into barrier then over the chicane was launched into the air and just missed smashing sideways into a barrier.

He will be lucky to have a car ready for Q1.

[mps69]

Damn Rosberg just had a nasty crash, he come flying out of the tunnel and a bump made the car bottom out he slid into barrier then over the chicane was launched into the air and just missed smashing sideways into a barrier.

He will be lucky to have a car ready for Q1.

Yeah damn lucky going at that speed...funny how they all keep trying to steer, even when it's obviously not going to work. Must be an instinct thing. Also the casual way they walk away. I know I'd be heading for a change of underwear. :pinch:

[+Frank B. Subscriber²]

[san.W10]

nasty crash indeed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPGwvEp_Bg8

Was Costa really the problem? :rofl:

WOW @ Massa :p

[+Frank B. Subscriber²]

Holy **** at the Perez accident. A heavy shunt which reminds me far too much of Wendlinger's accident in 1994 - same spot, and also in a Sauber. Here's hoping he'll be ok; according to the BBC he's conscious and talking.

[simonlang]

glad that perez is okay, but that was just a farce.

alonso dead lucky once again, as he really could have ended behind rosberg and hamilton this time.

sad to see mclaren having so much pace but well... this year its just flowing for vettel.