win8 The Windows 8 desktop on ARM: Here it is!

[Ice_Blue]

Seriously cool. Office 15. Natch.

http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2012/02/windows-8-on-arm-the-desktop-is-there-sos-office-but-not-much-more.ars

[Syanide]

"WOA does not support running, emulating, or porting existing x86/64 desktop apps."

So the only point of the desktop mode on ARM is to run the Office suite? I don't understand why they wouldn't allow porting as it'd be a great feature for many.

[~Johnny]

"WOA does not support running, emulating, or porting existing x86/64 desktop apps."

So the only point of the desktop mode on ARM is to run the Office suite? I don't understand why they wouldn't allow porting as it'd be a great feature for many.

They want Windows on ARM tablets to be competitive with the iPad - in the fact that they want it to have amazing battery life, nearly zero chance of getting virus or malware', and be as stable as possible. By culling third party desktop apps with unrestricted computer access (ensuring better stability & battery life) and ensuring everyone lives perfectly well inside the WinRT sandbox, they can do this.

For everyone else, there's x86 tablets :sorcerer:

[Stetson]

"WOA does not support running, emulating, or porting existing x86/64 desktop apps."

So the only point of the desktop mode on ARM is to run the Office suite? I don't understand why they wouldn't allow porting as it'd be a great feature for many.

I believe that .Net apps will work. I seriously wonder whether the low end consumer Windows 8 tablets should have the desktop enabled. With the iPad it's "You can run anything from this App store." With Windows 8 ARM it's "You can run anything from this App store, and a few normal Windows apps, but only special ones."

Trying to explain processor architectures and programming frameworks to the mass consumer market seems like a losing battle.

The closest analog to such a situation would be the OSX PowerPC-> Intel transition, but OSX Intel had an emulator to run legacy apps.

[~Johnny]

I believe that .Net apps will work. I seriously wonder whether the low end consumer Windows 8 tablets should have the desktop enabled. With the iPad it's "You can run anything from this App store." With Windows 8 ARM it's "You can run anything from this App store, and a few normal Windows apps, but only special ones."

From what Microsoft have seemingly confirmed today, the ONLY desktop apps on Windows on ARM tablets (not including the default Windows apps like Explorer) will be Office - namely Word, Excel, Powerpoint and OneNote. Everything else is Metro only.

So with the Windows ARM tablet experience, it will be "you can only run anything from the app store and the built in Windows apps", unlike x86 tablets & devices.

[Stetson]

From what Microsoft have seemingly confirmed today, the ONLY desktop apps on Windows on ARM tablets (not including the default Windows apps like Explorer) will be Office - namely Word, Excel, Powerpoint and OneNote. Everything else is Metro only.

I just read the article a bit more and it seems you are right. If the only desktop apps that you will EVER be able to run (besides built in utilities) is Office 15, why not just create a special way to integrate the desktop versions of Office into the Metro launcher? Ditch the super bar, start menu, desktop icons, etc.

It really doesn't make much sense. Basically it seems like desktop on ARM is only because they don't have a Metro UI version of Office ready yet, and they feel that they must have Office on W8 ARM at launch.

[~Johnny]

I just read the article a bit more and it seems you are right. If the only desktop apps that you will EVER be able to run (besides built in utilities) is Office 15, why not just create a special way to integrate the desktop versions of Office into the Metro launcher? Ditch the super bar, start menu, desktop icons, etc.

It really doesn't make much sense. Basically it seems like desktop on ARM is only because they don't have a Metro UI version of Office ready yet, and they feel that they must have Office on W8 ARM at launch.

My basic thoughts on that are realistically, the XAML / C# model probably won't give them the performance they need for a good Office suite (unfortunately it seems to have borrowed from Silverlight codebase, rather than WPF - probably because the Silverlight's codebase was already architecturally portable - even more of shame considering how much better WPF's font rendering got with it's text stack update. The WinRT XAML text stack is still what some people would consider blurry ) , and writing it in either HTML & JS or C++ & Direct X would require a ridiculous amount of time. That, any it'd be hard to fit all of Office's power in whilst still following the Metro guidelines of the rest of the Microsoft Metro apps.

I appreciate them focusing on it being on desktop too, just so you can manage multiple Office or document windows which isn't an uncommon scenario. I'd also wager it'd be quicker to manage files in Window explorer than whatever Metro file browser they have - the desktop setup they have they is pretty well optimized anyway, and a Metro Office app just wouldn't bring any inherent advantages to Office.

Of course, it might be confusing for some users who wonder why their familiar desktop can only do Office - but then I think in time some people might just consider the desktop the "Office app" on Windows ARM tablets, which isn't that bad an idea.

[Zain Adeel]

Actually microsoft should start calling desktop an App on ARM. And i am sure they will market it differently. Steven mentioned they will make it very clear to consumers that WOA is different.

This will allow them to make super cheap tablets to battle the ipads and lower priced android tablets. Where as more technical users will buy a x86 tablet or both. Depends really.

Like i want a laptop right now. Im saving for one. So far it looks like Windows 8 touch experience will be missed if i get a simple laptop. So im thinking of going with a x86 tablet instead. Something with a pressure sensitive digitizer. like the samsung slates. Those things are perfect for designers or if u write down lectures and stuff.

Although a little bulky.

As pointed above. They keeping Office as desktop apps so users can have multiple windows and stuff. (production end). And enjoy the start screen (consumer end).

[PGHammer]

I just read the article a bit more and it seems you are right. If the only desktop apps that you will EVER be able to run (besides built in utilities) is Office 15, why not just create a special way to integrate the desktop versions of Office into the Metro launcher? Ditch the super bar, start menu, desktop icons, etc.

It really doesn't make much sense. Basically it seems like desktop on ARM is only because they don't have a Metro UI version of Office ready yet, and they feel that they must have Office on W8 ARM at launch.

Actually, the Office 15 apps you mentioned are rewritten in WinRT - which is why they are runnable on ARM. It's an API difference.

Because they are, in fact, written in WinRT, they will run on *any* OS that supports WinRT - in other words, the API is relevant; however, the CPU is not.

The Win32 API is not present on ARM - because ARM can't run it. Therefore, WOA can't run existing versions of Office.

The WDP and WCP for x86/x64 is, therefore, a *superset OS* - it supports both WinRT *and* Win32. Existing applications (and most games) actually run just fine in the WDP (not taking anybody's word for it - I've been dual-booting it with 7 since it became available).

Office 2010 can (and in fact, does) run just fine in the WDP (even the x64 version of Office 2010). Besides, you DO realize that nary a single Office 2010 shortcut appears in the Windows 7 Start menu by default, do you? (The only reason that Outlook - or any other application - even appears in Windows 7's Start menu is if was among the last ten applications you've run - however you have run them; I typically launch Outlook 2010 from the Run box for the very first time. In other words, in that sense, the Start menu duplicates functionality present in the Windows Run box - that's been present since Windows 2000 Professional - and remains in the WDP. I know the executables for the core Office 2010 by heart - therefore, I simply go directly to each via the Run box - nary a single mouse-click, because I have no shortcuts to any of them on the desktop (which is also the default for Office 2010) - in either 7 or the WDP. The difference is that if I launch one that way in Windows 7, it shows up on the Start menu - however, that is, in fact, the ONLY difference.)

If you install Office 2010 in the WDP, a Microsoft Office group shows up in the StartScreen (basically, a clone of the old menu group in Windows 7's Programs subgroup) - I just don't use it.

The Core Office 2010 Executable List (WinKey+R)

Word - WINWORD.EXE

ACCESS - MSACCESS.EXE

EXCEL - EXCEL.EXE

PowerPoint - POWERPNT.EXE

OneNote - ONENOTE.EXE

Outlook - OUTLOOK.EXE

Bitness, Windows version, and even Office version, are all irrelevant.

[Zain Adeel]

Actually, the Office 15 apps you mentioned are rewritten in WinRT - which is why they are runnable on ARM. It's an API difference.

Because they are, in fact, written in WinRT, they will run on *any* OS that supports WinRT - in other words, the API is relevant; however, the CPU is not.

The Win32 API is not present on ARM - because ARM can't run it. Therefore, WOA can't run existing versions of Office.

The WDP and WCP for x86/x64 is, therefore, a *superset OS* - it supports both WinRT *and* Win32. Existing applications (and most games) actually run just fine in the WDP (not taking anybody's word for it - I've been dual-booting it with 7 since it became available).

Office 2010 can (and in fact, does) run just fine in the WDP (even the x64 version of Office 2010). Besides, you DO realize that nary a single Office 2010 shortcut appears in the Windows 7 Start menu by default, do you? (The only reason that Outlook - or any other application - even appears in Windows 7's Start menu is if was among the last ten applications you've run - however you have run them; I typically launch Outlook 2010 from the Run box for the very first time. In other words, in that sense, the Start menu duplicates functionality present in the Windows Run box - that's been present since Windows 2000 Professional - and remains in the WDP. I know the executables for the core Office 2010 by heart - therefore, I simply go directly to each via the Run box - nary a single mouse-click, because I have no shortcuts to any of them on the desktop (which is also the default for Office 2010) - in either 7 or the WDP. The difference is that if I launch one that way in Windows 7, it shows up on the Start menu - however, that is, in fact, the ONLY difference.)

If you install Office 2010 in the WDP, a Microsoft Office group shows up in the StartScreen (basically, a clone of the old menu group in Windows 7's Programs subgroup) - I just don't use it.

The Core Office 2010 Executable List (WinKey+R)

Word - WINWORD.EXE

ACCESS - MSACCESS.EXE

EXCEL - EXCEL.EXE

PowerPoint - POWERPNT.EXE

OneNote - ONENOTE.EXE

Outlook - OUTLOOK.EXE

Bitness, Windows version, and even Office version, are all irrelevant.

very informative. What about desktop? What is that written in actually? I mean i dont really know about coding. Is the desktop ported? Is it a deeper layer? Like below WinRT? can u explain that? i would love to know how it works :) (oh and im talking about desktop in WOA)

[~Johnny]

Actually, the Office 15 apps you mentioned are rewritten in WinRT - which is why they are runnable on ARM. It's an API difference.

Because they are, in fact, written in WinRT, they will run on *any* OS that supports WinRT - in other words, the API is relevant; however, the CPU is not.

The Win32 API is not present on ARM - because ARM can't run it. Therefore, WOA can't run existing versions of Office.

They've already shown the exisitng Office 14 running perfectly well on ARM chips. WOA can techincally support Win32 apps if they're compiled for ARM with a few little tweaks (and does infact seem to support the use of Win32 dll's compiled within the lastest VS from inside WinRT), and these aren't WinRT apps. It's the existing Office codebase, highly tuned specifically for low power devices.

[Zain Adeel]

i was thinking. Is the Metro and desktop at the same level? (meaning if desktop crashes can we move out of it into start screen? or will the whole PC crash?

thats what im confused about.

They've already shown the exisitng Office 14 running perfectly well on ARM chips. WOA can techincally support Win32 apps if they're compiled for ARM with a few little tweaks (and does infact seem to support the use of Win32 dll's compiled within the lastest VS from inside WinRT), and these aren't WinRT apps. It's the existing Office codebase, highly tuned specifically for low power devices.

pretty much exactly what im confused about. So this means There is a code that is below Win32 or WinRT to understand each? :s ok now i think i need sleep.

[~Johnny]

i was thinking. Is the Metro and desktop at the same level? (meaning if desktop crashes can we move out of it into start screen? or will the whole PC crash?

thats what im confused about.

The desktop and the start screen are both part of Explorer.exe, though Metro apps all live in their own individual sandboxed process'. Technically if something did crash the Explorer.exe, it'd take the start screen with it - which is one of the reasons Microsoft doesn't want to allow desktop app porting on Windows On ARM (they want the stability). But how often do you see something crash Explorer? :p

[Zain Adeel]

The desktop and the start screen are both part of Explorer.exe, though Metro apps all live in their own individual sandboxed process'. Technically if something did crash the Explorer.exe, it'd take the start screen with it - which is one of the reasons Microsoft doesn't want to allow desktop app porting on Windows On ARM (they want the stability). But how often do you see something crash Explorer? :p

well my explorer.exe crashes every now and then :p So i have to run it from task manager. It happens due to some softwares *ahem* and little bit customizing the .dlls :p

Anyhow. Now i get it. So the desktop tile is just a shortcut to desktop screen. But wait. ohh.. i get it. Thats why MS said if u are copying something in desktop it will keep on copying even if the system sleeps whereas the metro apps get suspended. Thats because the explorer is still running. (im talking about connected standby btw).

[PGHammer]

Actually microsoft should start calling desktop an App on ARM. And i am sure they will market it differently. Steven mentioned they will make it very clear to consumers that WOA is different.

This will allow them to make super cheap tablets to battle the ipads and lower priced android tablets. Where as more technical users will buy a x86 tablet or both. Depends really.

Like i want a laptop right now. Im saving for one. So far it looks like Windows 8 touch experience will be missed if i get a simple laptop. So im thinking of going with a x86 tablet instead. Something with a pressure sensitive digitizer. like the samsung slates. Those things are perfect for designers or if u write down lectures and stuff.

Although a little bulky.

As pointed above. They keeping Office as desktop apps so users can have multiple windows and stuff. (production end). And enjoy the start screen (consumer end).

WinRT is, in fact, CPU-neutral. However, simply due to the focus of WinRT (lightweight code, portability, power-sipping), there are some things that WinRT is decidedly unsuitable for (which is why no rewritten Outlook as of yet) and why some applications will never - and, in fact, should never, be rewritten in WinRT. (Access is also noticeable by its absence, as is Outlook.)

Windows 8 outside of ARM (x86/x64) is a true *superset OS* - it runs WinRT and Win32 APIs. No choosing is needed. However, there's also no learning curve. (That is, in fact, what separates Windows 8 from what has gone before in terms of Windows - even Tablet PC Edition.) You can actually add a tablet/stylus (say a Wacom model) to a traditional desktop and use the tablet/slate APIs that are there, and thus gain FAR more functionality than is provided by the Wacom pointing-device-proprietary API - and without boxing yourself in; how slick is that?

The folks up in arms over Immersive are used to being *forced* to choose. What Microsoft is saying with Windows 8 on x86/64 is "Why choose?"

Traditional applications still work - in the traditional way. (My screenies in the Windows 8 screenshots thread are *all* on traditional hardware - most are, in fact, traditional application-focussed. The same will absolutely and certainly apply to the Consumer Preview.)

[The Teej]

If this is PURELY for Office, why would they even show the taskbar/desktop?

Surely it'd be best to re-write the UI slightly so it removes the minimise and maximise buttons, and then simply force-hide the taskbar? End of the day if ARM isn't supposed to be redistributed in the same fashion x86 versions are, then there's no reason why Microsoft couldn't just take out little bits of the UI so Office 15 seems more immersive? Or are there other apps such as Task Manager, calculator, etc that are running outside of Metro UI? In which case, why not re-write these for Metro and disable the desktop altogether?

If they're going for the iPad experience, taking a quick route to shove Office 15 on WOA tablets isn't a good start. You'd never need to get thrown into OSX Desktop to launch a few specific apps in iOS, so why would they introduce this in WOA?

I hate to say it but it seems like a bit of a cop-out, a few quick UI changes (which they don't even need HTML5/JS/CSS or C#/XAML to implement) and you've got an immersive-esque Office 15 that can be launched and killed using the Metro launcher. To the tech head it'd be obvious they've hacked it in, but the average consumer wouldn't know or doesn't care, and for WOA tabs, that's all that matters.

[PGHammer]

They've already shown the exisitng Office 14 running perfectly well on ARM chips. WOA can techincally support Win32 apps if they're compiled for ARM with a few little tweaks (and does infact seem to support the use of Win32 dll's compiled within the lastest VS from inside WinRT), and these aren't WinRT apps. It's the existing Office codebase, highly tuned specifically for low power devices.

However, it also rather nicely points out the limits of WinRT.

It's why I made the comment about application suitability for various APIs. It's like the far-older rubric about taking a knife to a gunfight.

If you want the greatest API support by your hardware, you want Windows 8 for x86/64.

If your thing is increased (vastly increased) battery life, at the cost of support for certain applications that will never be written (or writable) to WinRT, then you want WOA.

If you're in-between, pick the netbook/tablet/slate/Ultrabook that suits your needs and application mix.

However, because of the dual-API nature of Windows 8 for x86/x64, Windows 8 Ultimate (if there actually is such a creature) could be called Windows 8 Kitchen Sink Edition - and it would be more fitting than was the case with Windows 7 Ultimate.

[Zain Adeel]

Ok so now im really confused :s

im thinking. What if i buy a touchscreen monitor? like a full 24 inch touchscreen monitor. and place it above my keyboard at 20 Degree angle. So its 1.5feet away from my face but just 5 inches from my fingers. And use touch for touch and keyboard for typing. Damn that would be sooooooooooooo sweet. Only if the touch has a digitizer.. man!! id only require to buy a monitor instead of a whole tablet or touch laptop so i can save money this way aswell. CP LEAK ALREADY!

[PGHammer]

If this is PURELY for Office, why would they even show the taskbar/desktop?

Surely it'd be best to re-write the UI slightly so it removes the minimise and maximise buttons, and then simply force-hide the taskbar? End of the day if ARM isn't supposed to be redistributed in the same fashion x86 versions are, then there's no reason why Microsoft couldn't just take out little bits of the UI so Office 15 seems more immersive? Or are there other apps such as Task Manager, calculator, etc that are running outside of Metro UI? In which case, why not re-write these for Metro and disable the desktop altogether?

If they're going for the iPad experience, taking a quick route to shove Office 15 on WOA tablets isn't a good start. You'd never need to get thrown into OSX Desktop to launch a few specific apps in iOS, so why would they introduce this in WOA?

I hate to say it but it seems like a bit of a cop-out, a few quick UI changes (which they don't even need HTML5/JS/CSS or C#/XAML to implement) and you've got an immersive-esque Office 15 that can be launched and killed using the Metro launcher. To the tech head it'd be obvious they've hacked it in, but the average consumer wouldn't know or doesn't care, and for WOA tabs, that's all that matters.

Because there will be (and some were shown, in fact) ARM netbooks and competitors to Ultrabooks - in short ARM in factors OTHER than tablets and slates. The WinRT rewrite is about CPU-neutrality and has exactly diddly to do with Immersive.

Immersive (strictly as a UI) is a straight reboot of the existing Windows user interface. It's touch-friendlier; however (and this was, in fact, the biggest surprise to me personally) it's also friendlier to pointing devices - especially mice.

You're used to having to choose which OS to run for which purpose (and that is exactly what Apple - and, to an extent, Google - have been happy with).

However, users (and in Android's case, developers) have been far from happy with such fracturing and niche-ification. iOS (especially the iPad 2) is cannibalizing the Mac marketplace today, while Android 4.0 (Ice Cream Sandwich) is specifically designed to bridge smartphones and tablets/slates. Is Microsoft supposed to just ignore that?

Hence Windows 8 having two APIs. WinRT, while CPU-neutral, is focussed on the strength of lower-powered (and largely non-x86) devices, primarily ARM. However, the very advantages of lowered powered devices make it unsuitable for traditional applications. (Would you want to run the full version of Photoshop on ARM?)

Traditional Win32 still has a place - and so do traditional Win32 applications. However, so do lightweight applications - Microsoft can't ignore those, even on otherwise-traditional hardware. (Look at the success of Angry Birds alone on Windows 7.)

Ok so now im really confused :s

im thinking. What if i buy a touchscreen monitor? like a full 24 inch touchscreen monitor. and place it above my keyboard at 20 Degree angle. So its 1.5feet away from my face but just 5 inches from my fingers. And use touch for touch and keyboard for typing. Damn that would be sooooooooooooo sweet. Only if the touch has a digitizer.. man!! id only require to buy a monitor instead of a whole tablet or touch laptop so i can save money this way aswell. CP LEAK ALREADY!

And that's the other possibility.

You can *add* such a display to your existing hardware, Windows 8 will detect it, and install the drivers for that device - just as if it were a more plebian device, such as a keyboard or mouse.

With Windows 8, that is indeed possible. Thanks to the niche-ification with older versions of Windows, it largely hasn't been.

[Stetson]

Because there will be (and some were shown, in fact) ARM netbooks and competitors to Ultrabooks - in short ARM in factors OTHER than tablets and slates. The WinRT rewrite is about CPU-neutrality and has exactly diddly to do with Immersive.

Immersive (strictly as a UI) is a straight reboot of the existing Windows user interface. It's touch-friendlier; however (and this was, in fact, the biggest surprise to me personally) it's also friendlier to pointing devices - especially mice.

But Microsoft has said specifically now that there will be no third party desktop applications for WOA. So keeping the desktop around for ARM laptops doesn't make much sense, it's still only for Paint, Explorer, and Office, and that's it.

I'm just picturing people looking at $499-$599 WOA tablets at Best Buy:

"This is Windows?"

"Kinda. This is the touch interface, if you tap here it takes you back to the normal Windows desktop."

"So it runs Windows apps?"

"Just Office"

"Oh. So I can't run any of my Windows apps?"

"No"

"Steam games?"

"No"

"The Windows app my company uses?"

"No"

IMO they should call WOA (at least the version for low end low power tablets) "Metro". If their strategy and development choices make it difficult for them to get a version of Office for Metro up and running then I think they didn't plan very well.

The whole point of the Windows brand has been that people know it from their work environment and know that stuff will most likely work on it. When you take that away is the Windows brand really worth anything?

[Melfster]

I Think Microsoft just put the desktop in for Office. I think the plan is to redo Office in Metro but their wasn't enough time to do it. Perhaps the next versions of Arm for windows and office will do make apparent. Right they need to concentrate on shipping windows 8. Windows 8 is a whole retooling of OS. There is a lot crap in the OS that we don't need anymore but is there for backward compatibility. Sometimes you just need to shove something down customer throats in order for them change.

[PGHammer]

But Microsoft has said specifically now that there will be no third party desktop applications for WOA. So keeping the desktop around for ARM laptops doesn't make much sense, it's still only for Paint, Explorer, and Office, and that's it.

I'm just picturing people looking at $499-$599 WOA tablets at Best Buy:

"This is Windows?"

"Kinda. This is the touch interface, if you tap here it takes you back to the normal Windows desktop."

"So it runs Windows apps?"

"Just Office"

"Oh. So I can't run any of my Windows apps?"

"No"

"Steam games?"

"No"

"The Windows app my company uses?"

"No"

IMO they should call WOA (at least the version for low end low power tablets) "Metro". If their strategy and development choices make it difficult for them to get a version of Office for Metro up and running then I think they didn't plan very well.

The whole point of the Windows brand has been that people know it from their work environment and know that stuff will most likely work on it. When you take that away is the Windows brand really worth anything?

I take it you didn't notice the ARM netbooks. (There was one in the picture.)

ARM is for hyperlong battery life. (Longer than not just current netbooks, but Ultrabooks - and cheaper besides.)

And that's been the whole problem (for all operating systems - it's not unique to Windows).

It's been forks, niches, and completely incompatible-by-design operating systems.

And the userbase is rebelling.

It's not just that smartphones are selling more than PCs are - low price is a major reason, as is the still-poor economy. Apple CEO Tim Cook got a nasty wake-up call with the iPad2 sales metrics - the iPad2 is eating into sales of traditional Macs (despite the iPad2 being worth exactly diddly when it comes to content creation). Even otherwise-loyal Apple customers are saying *nyet* to multiple devices, different UIs, and transition fatigue.

The rebellion in terms of Android is ahead of the Apple rebellion - it resulted in the first device-neutral version of Android - 4.0 (Ice Cream Sandwich).

And yet all the detractors of Immersive would actually have Microsoft repeat the very mistake that Apple has made (and Google is trying to unmake).

Microsoft is actually in a fantastic position to take advantage of Apple's mistake - and Google's deliberate avoidance. By making WinRT a CPU-neutral API (while preserving Win32) it creates an application-platform progression that grows as the user's comfort level does - they can start with a WinRT version of an application (for an ARM netbook/tablet/slate or even non-ARM netbook or Ultrabook, depending on what their needs are) and move up to more powerful hardware - without having to re-learn anything. They can even keep the less-powerful WinRT version (ala Notepad or Wordpad) for the light work *after* moving up to a more powerful - and Win32 or even Win64, depending on the user or use - application. No UI changes - only application-specific changes. Therefore, no learning curve. (No transition fatigue, either; the UI is something they already know cold.)

As an earlier poster said - all pluses and nary a single minus.

[Stetson]

I take it you didn't notice the ARM netbooks. (There was one in the picture.)

ARM is for hyperlong battery life. (Longer than not just current netbooks, but Ultrabooks - and cheaper besides.)

...

I get that there will be ARM netbooks/laptops. What I don't get is the point in including the Desktop simply for Office. I get the sense from your post that you think that there will be new WinRT applications that run in the desktop mode of Windows 8 on ARM. The article says that all third-party WOA apps will be Metro only:

All third-party applications for WOA will be Metro applications delivered via the Windows Store, and must meet the restrictions imposed on those applications.

That basically means that Desktop on WOA exists soley for Explorer and Office, and that there won't be any cross-platform apps, WinRT or other framework, that operate in the Desktop mode on WOA. At least if the article is correct.

Making the underlying codebases compatible is great. Apple has tried to do much of the same. Code must be complied specifically for OSX (Darwin x86) or iOS (Darwin ARM), but much of the code is compatible.

I don't see how WOA is any different than the iPad if all third-party software has to be for the Metro/Immersive UI and through Microsoft's App Store. I guess the difference would be that you can't run iOS (Cocoa Touch) apps natively on OSX x86.

That leaves the real difference to end users as being one of UI. Apple chose to make Touch and Desktop UIs completely separate. Microsoft is trying to find a balance of a UI that works well for both, which I think is a worthy cause.

[Raa]

I think they need to cut the desktop and other "classic" looks from the ARM version. I can see too many "joe average" people getting confused with this.

[PGHammer]

I get that there will be ARM netbooks/laptops. What I don't get is the point in including the Desktop simply for Office. I get the sense from your post that you think that there will be new WinRT applications that run in the desktop mode of Windows 8 on ARM. The article says that all third-party WOA apps will be Metro only:

That basically means that Desktop on WOA exists soley for Explorer and Office, and that there won't be any cross-platform apps, WinRT or other framework, that operate in the Desktop mode on WOA. At least if the article is correct.

Making the underlying codebases compatible is great. Apple has tried to do much of the same. Code must be complied specifically for OSX (Darwin x86) or iOS (Darwin ARM), but much of the code is compatible.

I don't see how WOA is any different than the iPad if all third-party software has to be for the Metro/Immersive UI and through Microsoft's App Store. I guess the difference would be that you can't run iOS (Cocoa Touch) apps natively on OSX x86.

That leaves the real difference to end users as being one of UI. Apple chose to make Touch and Desktop UIs completely separate. Microsoft is trying to find a balance of a UI that works well for both, which I think is a worthy cause.

Finally - someone that gets it!

That is indeed the point of dual APIs.

WinRT - both CPU-neutral and UI-neutral. Runs on WOA and big-brother Windows 8.

Win32 - UI-neutral, but not CPU-neutral. Exclusive to Windows 8 and earlier.

ARM has advantages when it comes to battery life - the trade-off is incompatibility with Win32. If you want the formfactor, but also want Win32 applications, that's what Ultrabooks and x86/64 tablets and slates are for. (That was why there were ARM netbooks, in addition to ARM tablets and slates, in the WOA blog video.)

x86/x64 offers the widest compatibility range - both WinRT and Win32 applications, games, etc. work just fine. Disadvantage (portables) - shorter battery life compared to ARM, weight, higher price.

By keeping the UIs separate, Apple has made two major errors - they have fragmented their userbase AND created the issue of *transition fatigue* within that userbase. (The latest iPad2 sales metrics illustrate that iPad2 is eating into sales of traditional Macs - the *transition fatigue* issue is quite real.)

Google has had it no easier with Android - why else did Google create Ice Cream Sandwich (4.0)? Similar issue - except that the transition was between smartphones and tablets/slates; they deliberately have avoided addressing netbooks (instead, they have pushed the Chromebook into that area.)

With the tag-team of WOA and Windows 8, there are two APIs that, between them, cover everything from the tablet/slate/netbook/ultrabook formfactor to high-end gaming desktops and workstations (if you include Windows 8 Server, it can technically be said to cover the various flavors of server as well). The range of Linux without either the fragmentation/niche-ification issue that the various narrow-focus of Linux distributions has created - or the learning curve - due to the general UI being absolutely identical.