So, a lotta you hate Windows 8...

By The_Decimator
in The Fast Ring (Insider Previews)

 Share

Recommended Posts

Grand Master

Dot Matrix

Posted
Posted

Which is what most users using a computer use... I want a mouse UI, I want a UI designed around the mouse, not a UI that *works* with a mouse.

I think the greater computer world is moving away from the mouse. When you think about it, the mouse is highly inefficient anymore on higher resolution displays. There comes a point where UI elements have to be sized up to accommodate these screens. There are also touch screens coming into mainstream, another user commented that Windows 7 is lost on these computers, and I agree. Adding Metro now sets up Microsoft for the next 15 or so years of computer evolution. I can guarantee by then, the mouse will be highly depreciated, even on desktops.

Community Regular

techguy77

Posted
Posted

The Start Screen provides a way for you to see all of that information on one screen, due to what can be shown on tiles.That's the beauty of it. You could have your Start Screen up on one screen, with all of that, and then another screen free for a couple of applications.

No you don't see all the information. I would still have to scroll. It is much easier to navigate through Start Menu. What MS needed to do with Windows 8 is to keep Windows 7 interface, and introduce concept of virtual desktop and virtual start menu.

Grand Master

firey

Posted
Posted

The Start Screen provides a way for you to see all of that information on one screen, due to what can be shown on tiles.That's the beauty of it. You could have your Start Screen up on one screen, with all of that, and then another screen free for a couple of applications.

I can also have Gadgets on my second screen that show me all this information, while leaving the rest of the second monitor free for more windows. I can do the same on single monitor.

Explain to me why a full screen display is better than having a couple things that provide the same detailed information off to the side of the screen leaving the rest full useable with no loss of the information.

I think the greater computer world is moving away from the mouse. When you think about it, the mouse is highly inefficient anymore on higher resolution displays. There comes a point where UI elements have to be sized up to accommodate these screens. There are also touch screens coming into mainstream, another user commented that Windows 7 is lost on these computers, and I agree. Adding Metro now sets up Microsoft for the next 15 or so years of computer evolution. I can guarantee by then, the mouse will be highly depreciated, even on desktops.

Not everyone has a touch screen, nor is everyone getting one. I find a mouse to be far more precise than my finger, I find that I have a hell of a time touching the right spot on a touchscreen, whereas I nail it every time with a mouse. Again certain things work better for different people.

Grand Master

Dot Matrix

Posted
Posted

Windows 95 UI was step forward from Windows 3.1 UI. Windows 8 UI is step backwards from what we have now. Mouse is more efficient tool than any gesture because nothing beats mouse in term of being precise especially in higher resolutions.

But when the UI elements continue to grow in size, what kind of precision do you still need? Any way you look at it, the mouse is loosing focus. I think it would be pretty cool to have a mouse-less PC that was controlled with a combination of keyboard, touch, and motion. The mouse is limiting desktop innovation.

Grand Master

firey

Posted
Posted

But when the UI elements continue to grow in size, what kind of precision do you still need? Any way you look at it, the mouse is loosing focus. I think it would be pretty cool to have a mouse-less PC that was controlled with a combination of keyboard, touch, and motion. The mouse is limiting desktop innovation.

They grow in size because there was a huge touch screen hype, so a lot of peopel bought them, then were mad that they couldn't touch everything correctly. And I'd rather click once, then tap the screen 10x because I can't get the stupid X to click with a touch. The mouse in not limiting desktop innovation in any way.

The change in technology, and companies wanting to merge multiple devices and structures into one limits the innovation. I'm sorry but a bunch of boxes on a screen is hardly innovating.

However.. maybe the Windows 8 interface is a trick. They will come out with a new Windows 7 interface, completely refreshed for Windows 9, and everyone will cheer and thing MS is god-like. They are clearing the slate with Windows 8, so expectations and hopes fall, and people forget how awesome W7's interface is, so any improvement interface wise for W9 will be way more than if it had gone directly from Windows 7.

Community Regular

techguy77

Posted
Posted

But when the UI elements continue to grow in size, what kind of precision do you still need? Any way you look at it, the mouse is loosing focus. I think it would be pretty cool to have a mouse-less PC that was controlled with a combination of keyboard, touch, and motion. The mouse is limiting desktop innovation.

No matter how big UI element is Mouse is still the most efficient way to click on things. Why we would need UI element to grow, that is just stupid. The reason i own 27" LCD (soon 30") screen is to have UI elements look smaller not bigger. I don't want UI which will make my 27" look like i am on 18" with regular desktop. I don't want dirty LCD screen. Motion and touch work in environment with no monitor -> virtual reality otherwise idea MS is trying to bring to PC over 10 years and every time ends up with failure.

Grand Master

Nick H. Supervisor

Posted
  • Supervisor
Posted
But when the UI elements continue to grow in size, what kind of precision do you still need?

Right, but you're arguing a chicken and egg scenario. You're saying that precision isn't needed anymore because icons are getting larger, but others argue that icons are getting larger to compensate for the lack of precision you have when using your fingers compared to a mouse.

Grand Master

farmeunit

Posted
Posted

Of course I want an actual computer :s I just realise that there is no need to have many apps open on the screen at any one time, and I'm also well aware from experience that such a way of working becomes cumbersome and messy, yet because the option is there, I naturally allow myself to follow that cumbersome way of working. The Desktop mode is just too cumbersome and annoying to use all round. It isn't hard to use, the user experience is just annoying, compared to what the Windows 8 Metro experience offers.

Actually sometime there is a need to have many apps open. I work at a school and when doing state reporting and exporting/importing students into eDirectory or any other program, I'll using several different things all at the same time. That would be a mess with Metro.

Grand Master

Dot Matrix

Posted
Posted
No matter how big UI element is Mouse is still the most efficient way to click on things. Why we would need UI element to grow, that is just stupid. The reason i own 27" LCD (soon 30") screen is to have UI elements look smaller not bigger. I don't want UI which will make my 27" look like i am on 18" with regular desktop. I don't want dirty LCD screen. Motion and touch work in environment with no monitor -> virtual reality otherwise idea MS is trying to bring to PC over 10 years and every time ends up with failure.

Define "efficient". It takes less time to move our arms or touch an element than it does to mouse through everything, even less time to use the keyboard where your hands are anyways. Also, when our monitors DPI gets to a point where it's impossible to discern all those small UI elements, then what are you gonna do? Those old 9x elements are never going to scale up. Eventually, they'll be replaced by bigger ones that are easier to see and read.

Grand Master

+virtorio MVC

Posted
  • MVC
Posted

But when the UI elements continue to grow in size, what kind of precision do you still need? Any way you look at it, the mouse is loosing focus. I think it would be pretty cool to have a mouse-less PC that was controlled with a combination of keyboard, touch, and motion. The mouse is limiting desktop innovation.

It sounds to me like you want a tablet, not a PC. Having to constantly hold my arm out and touch my screen to select text, cells in worksheet or design a UI in Visual Studio sounds like the most inefficient way to do pretty much anything.

You also sound like a Microsoft rep is full spin mode - "limiting desktop innovation" - what a load of s**t. Creating a UI paradigm and don't even work well with desktop hardware is what is going to limit desktop innovation.

Grand Master

Dot Matrix

Posted
Posted
Right, but you're arguing a chicken and egg scenario. You're saying that precision isn't needed anymore because icons are getting larger, but others argue that icons are getting larger to compensate for the lack of precision you have when using your fingers compared to a mouse.

Yes, but also elements are getting larger for the hard to see. But at what point does it become detrimental to keep around those 16x16 or 32x32 icons? The old static elements that people are clinging to are never going to scale up, so why not just replace them with clearer, easier to see and read, elements that *will* scale to anything you throw at it? Metro does that.

Grand Master

Dot Matrix

Posted
Posted (edited)
It sounds to me like you want a tablet, not a PC. Having to constantly hold my arm out and touch my screen to select text, cells in worksheet or design a UI in Visual Studio sounds like the most inefficient way to do pretty much anything. You also sound like a Microsoft rep is full spin mode - "limiting desktop innovation" - what a load of s**t. Creating a UI paradigm and don't even work well with desktop hardware is what is going to limit desktop innovation.

Uh, no. But just put it this way, in the movies and TV shows set in the future, do you still see people humorously throwing a mouse around their screens or workstations? Think about the computers seen in "Minority Effect", "Avatar", and the LCARS interface seen in "Star Trek". Any mice there? We're not going to get there mindlessly clinging onto the mouse. So, yes, it does limit innovation.

Grand Master

McKay

Posted
Posted

Windows 95 UI was step forward from Windows 3.1 UI. Windows 8 UI is step backwards from what we have now. Mouse is more efficient tool than any gesture because nothing beats mouse in term of being precise especially in higher resolutions.

But at the time there were people saying it was a step back, when 3.1 launched, people said it was a step back from DOS. People say Windows 7 is a stepback from XP. Notice a pattern here?

Grand Master

+virtorio MVC

Posted
  • MVC
Posted

Uh, no. But just put it this way, in the movies and TV shows set in the future, do you still see users throwing a mouse around their screens? Think about the computers seen in "Minority Effect", "Avatar", and the LCARS interface seen in "Star Trek". Any mice there? We're not going to get there mindlessly clinging onto the mouse. So, yes, it does limit innovation.

Wow, really, movies? Software and hardware shown in movies has no basis in reality.

But seeing you brought it up, I don't see anyone doing any actual work (like I mentioned) in movies. Not just because that would be boring, but also because it would be impossible.

Grand Master

Vice

Posted
Posted

Of course I want an actual computer :s I just realise that there is no need to have many apps open on the screen at any one time, and I'm also well aware from experience that such a way of working becomes cumbersome and messy, yet because the option is there, I naturally allow myself to follow that cumbersome way of working. The Desktop mode is just too cumbersome and annoying to use all round. It isn't hard to use, the user experience is just annoying, compared to what the Windows 8 Metro experience offers.

The way I use my PC I want to be able to run many apps at once. I wouldn't have purchased three 30" displays if I didn't want many many apps open at once and visible. Metro dumbs everything down because they want to appeal to people that don't know how to use a computer. That isn't me and that is why I reject everything that Metro represents. It isn't better, it's basic.

Grand Master

Dot Matrix

Posted
Posted

Wow, really, movies? Software and hardware shown in movies has no basis in reality.

But seeing you brought it up, I don't see anyone doing any actual work (like I mentioned) in movies. Not just because that would be boring, but also because it would be impossible.

HA! Where do you think the inspiration came from for all the tech devices you own today? And nothing is impossible. Nothing. These movies will continue to inspire computer designers. So, yes, it is a valid point.

Grand Master

+virtorio MVC

Posted
  • MVC
Posted

HA! Where do you think the inspiration came from for all the tech devices you own today? And nothing is impossible. Nothing. These movies will continue to inspire computer designers. So, yes, it is a valid point.

So how does your "valid" point link back to today and Windows 8 and users still doing work that requires the use of a mouse?

Grand Master

Dot Matrix

Posted
Posted

So how does your "valid" point link back to today and Windows 8 and users still doing work that requires the use of a mouse?

What I'm trying to say is, the mouse is slowly going away. With the introduction of mainstream touch and motion sense, people are going to be using the mouse less and less as Microsoft, Apple, and maybe even Google find a way to integrate these technologies into their operating systems. Microsoft is the first to do so on the desktop. Apple is bound to keep away for a few years as they play into the fears of Windows users like they always do, but they too will follow, I could almost guarantee for OSXI. But once Apple does it, like the lemmings they are, people will "love" it.

Grand Master

devHead

Posted
Posted

I purposely wrote it in a way that would sound sarcastic, haha, but I was actually being serious. There are very good reasons as to why I think the Metro experience's limitations are beneficial to all computer users. As I mention, I believe the current way everyone multitasks with Windows is flawed, and I think the restrictions the Metro experience provide will lead to everyone multitasking in a more efficient manner, helping their productivity while simultaneously improving their overall user experience.

Callum, bro, you're a good guy I'm sure. However, you know what I think?

I think you've lost your mind.

This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share
Go to topic listing

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Posts

    • Firefox 152.0.3

      By James W. · Posted

      Glad I uninstalled this incredibly buggy browser. Looking at that changelog, they clearly don't test their updates at all.
    • UniGetUI 2026.2.2

      By Copernic · Posted

      UniGetUI 2026.2.2 by Razvan Serea UniGetUI is an application whose main goal is to create an intuitive GUI for the most common CLI package managers for Windows 10 and Windows 11, such as Winget, Scoop and Chocolatey. With UniGetUI, you'll be able to download, install, update and uninstall any software that's published on the supported package managers — and so much more. UniGetUI features Install, update and remove software from your system easily at one click: UniGetUI combines the packages from the most used package managers for windows: WinGet, Chocolatey, Scoop, Pip, Npm and .NET Tool. Discover new packages and filter them to easily find the package you want. View detailed metadata about any package before installing it. Get the direct download URL or the name of the publisher, as well as the size of the download. Easily bulk-install, update or uninstall multiple packages at once selecting multiple packages before performing an operation Automatically update packages, or be notified when updates become available. Skip versions or completely ignore updates in a per-package basis. Manage your available updates at the touch of a button from the Widgets pane or from Dev Home pane with UniGetUI Widgets. The system tray icon will also show the available updates and installed package, to efficiently update a program or remove a package from your system. Easily customize how and where packages are installed. Select different installation options and switches for each package. Install an older version or force to install a 32bit architecture. [But don't worry, those options will be saved for future updates for this package] Share packages with your friends to show them off that program you found. Here is an example: Hey @friend, Check out this program! Export custom lists of packages to then import them to another machine and install those packages with previously-specified, custom installation parameters. Setting up machines or configuring a specific software setup has never been easier. Backup your packages to a local file to easily recover your setup in a matter of seconds when migrating to a new machine Devolutions UniGetUI 2026.2.2 changelog: This release marks the completion of UniGetUI's migration from WinUI to Avalonia. With the remaining WinUI components and dependencies now removed, UniGetUI is fully powered by Avalonia. This update also brings Windows 11 Snap Layouts support, refined styling throughout the application, improved log viewing, new illustrations, and significantly smaller release packages. Highlights Further refined the Avalonia user interface to better match WinUI styling and behavior across package lists, navigation elements, dialogs, and controls. Added support for Windows 11 Snap Layouts when hovering the maximize button, matching the behavior of native Windows applications. Added illustrations for empty and loading package list states, improving visual feedback throughout the application. Improved the operation log window so automatic scrolling no longer interrupts users when reviewing previous log entries. Reduced installer and application package sizes, resulting in smaller downloads and a significantly leaner Windows distribution. User Interface Improvements Improved package list styling, column headers, backgrounds, hover states, and selection indicators for a more polished and consistent experience. Refined sidebar navigation and segmented controls to better align with modern Windows design patterns. Improved package tag badges and icon presentation throughout the application. Updated several labels, placeholders, and interface elements for improved clarity and consistency. Removed the remaining WinUI-specific styling dependencies, further consolidating the application around Avalonia. Windows Improvements Added native Windows 11 Snap Layouts integration for the maximize button. Improved maximize button hover and pressed visual states to more closely match native Windows behavior. Performance & Reliability Reduced the size of Windows release packages by removing unnecessary runtime dependencies and optimizing published builds. Reduced installer size through improved compression settings. Simplified application dependencies and reduced overall maintenance complexity. Fixes Fixed log output auto-scrolling behavior when manually reviewing previous entries. Resolved various UI inconsistencies and styling issues across the Avalonia interface. Addressed several minor issues and edge cases throughout the application. Other Changes Dependency cleanup and project maintenance. Internal code refactoring and infrastructure improvements. Additional test coverage and build pipeline optimizations. Download: UniGetUI 64-bit | Portable | ~90.0 MB (Open Source) Download: UniGetUI ARM64 | Portable Links: UniGetUI Home Page | GitHub | Screenshot Get alerted to all of our Software updates on Twitter at @NeowinSoftware
    • The best controller for XBOX and PC is down to the lowest price

      By TarasBuria · Posted

      The best controller for XBOX and PC is down to the lowest price by Taras Buria Image via Neowin The GameSir G7 Pro is a fantastic controller for XBOX and PC. Officially certified, it works with Microsoft's consoles, mobile devices, and PCs, giving you a universal controller for any kind of gaming machine. And right now, you can save 20% on it, thanks to the latest deal during Prime Day 2026 (purchase link below). The G7 Pro has the classic XBOX layout, complemented by a couple of extra elements, such as the M button for changing various settings and four additional remappable buttons. It also has trigger locks and TMR sticks that eliminate drifting issues, giving you a reliable, long-lasting gamepad. The controller is powered by a built-in battery, which charges via a USB Type-C cable or the bundled dock station. The G7 Pro supports wireless (XBOX Wireless, proprietary dongle, or Bluetooth) and wired connectivity. In addition to software customization (you can remap multiple buttons to different actions), it lets you personalize the look by swapping the faceplate or grips, enabling multiple design combinations. Other features include a 1,000Hz polling rate, an audio jack for your headphones, Hall Effect triggers, and a swappable D-pad (two extra are included). The controller is also available in four color variants, and all of them are now discounted. Thanks to quality materials, reliable components, rich customization, universal compatibility, and an affordable price tag, the G7 Pro received very high praise in our review. It is certainly among the best controllers you can buy. GameSir G7 Pro - $63.99 | 20% off with Prime Good to know This Amazon deal is U.S. specific, and not available in other regions unless specified. We only use first-party seller links (at the time of article publishing); ensure that you purchase from a first-party seller link only. Check out Today's Deals on Amazon | or our recent tech deals. Become a Prime member (for Students or SNAP) via Neowin Get Prime Access - Prime for half price (for qualifying Medicaid, EBT, SNAP) Subscribe to Prime Video, Audible Plus, Music Unlimited or Kindle Unlimited via Neowin As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.
    • Politically funny images of the World

      By +primortal · Posted

    • Microsoft further improving Windows 11 Taskbar with latest builds

      By hellowalkman · Posted

      Microsoft further improving Windows 11 Taskbar with latest builds by Sayan Sen Microsoft has released new Windows 11 builds for users flighting the Experimental channels. The new builds are 26300.8758 for Windows 11 26H2, 28120.2374 for 26H1, and 29617.1000 for future platforms. There are improvements related to the Taskbar, File Explorer and more with the new update. The full changelogs are given below: First we have the build 26300.8758: Changes and improvements gradually being rolled out [Taskbar] Taskbar customization just got easier. As we continue to make improvements to the Taskbar experience mentioned last month, we've introduced a dedicated Taskbar Size setting, making it simpler to find, understand, and personalize your ideal taskbar experience. UI showing the new Taskbar Size setting in Settings. We've also made refinements to the transitions between taskbar sizes for a smoother overall experience. [File Explorer] We've improved the reliability of thumbnail previews for cloud files in the Details pane. The pane has also been reorganized so file properties are easier to find and review at a glance. Fixed an issue where the OneDrive shortcut in File Explorer stops working when File Explorer is run in administrative mode. Fixed an issue where the confirmation dialog might display an internal Recycle Bin file name instead of the original file name when permanently deleting a file. [Sounds] Improved system sounds when using Windows in dark mode. Up next we have build 28120.2374: Changes and improvements gradually being rolled out This update includes a small set of general improvements and fixes [Mobile Device Settings] You can add and manage your mobile devices in Settings under Bluetooth & Devices > Mobile Devices. On this page, you can manage features such as using your device as a connected camera or accessing your device's files in File Explorer. [Remote Recovery Management] Added a recovery remote management plug-in to extend WinRE management capabilities for MDM providers. [Input] The emoji panel (Windows key + period (.)) now uses GIPHY as the GIF provider, delivering a smoother GIF browsing and sharing experience following the deprecation of the Tenor API. Finally we have the changelog for Windows 11 build 29617.1000: Changes and improvements gradually being rolled out [Windows Update] As announced in the Windows Update announce blog, we are now bringing a new unified update experience to reduce the number of reboots you see per month. We are starting by coordinating driver, .NET, and firmware updates to align with the monthly quality update, reducing the update experience to a single monthly restart. See the blog for more information. [Windows Magnifier] Magnifier now gives you more control over how you zoom. You can type an exact zoom percentage directly in the magnifier toolbar to land on precisely the level you need. We've also added preset step increments (5%, 10%, 25%, 50%, 100%, 150%, 200%, and 400%) to the Settings dropdown, so you can jump to common levels in a single click. Whether you need a subtle boost or a dramatic close-up, Magnifier adapts to how you want to zoom. Enter an exact percentage or jump to preset steps —5% up to 400%. Feedback: Share your thoughts in Feedback Hub (WIN + F) under Accessibility > Magnifier. [Accessibility] We're introducing screen tint, a new accessibility setting that applies a color overlay across your entire display, softening its intensity so it's easier on your eyes throughout the day. If bright, saturated screens leave you with tired or sensitive eyes by the end of a long session, screen tint can help. Screenshot showing UI for screen tint in Accessibility, with color presets and a strength slider. To get started, open Settings > Accessibility (or press WIN + U) and look for screen tint under the Vision section. From there, you can: Pick from six preset colors or choose a custom color of your own. Adjust the tint strength slider from a subtle wash to full intensity. Night light warms your display to reduce blue light that can interfere with sleep. Screen tint reduces overall screen intensity to ease eye fatigue and light sensitivity during the day. They tackle different problems and you can use both at the same time, one working on warmth and the other on intensity. Note that turning on screen tint will disable color filters, and vice versa. If you currently rely on color filters, you might need to keep screen tint turned off. Feedback: Share your thoughts in Feedback Hub (WIN + F) under Accessibility > Narrator. [Voice Access] Voice Access now supports Portuguese (Portugal), Portuguese (Brazil), and Korean (South Korea). [Audio] Continuing our work on improving Sound Settings, we've made a few more updates in this build: We've adjusted the description text for the Allow option in properties for audio devices to include the current state of the device, to improve the clarity of the text and the purpose of the button actions. "Listen to this device" is now available in properties for audio devices, so you don't need to enter Control Panel for this functionality. [Multiple Desktops] Improved explorer reliability when switching between multiple desktops. [Storage] We've updated the dialog when creating a Dev Drive to now support specifying the size in GB instead of only MB. This has also been added when changing the size of volumes under Settings > System > Storage. [Personalization] This update improves color selection accuracy when adjusting your accent color to match your wallpaper when automatic accent color selection is enabled in Personalization settings. This update improves wallpaper persistence reliability across restarts and upgrades, including better support for large-resolution wallpapers and other scenarios to prevent solid color wallpaper fallback. [Display and Graphics] Improves the reliability and persistence of applying color profiles. You can view the official blog posts here (link1, link2, link3) on Microsoft's site.

  • Recent Achievements

    • One Year In
      bernmeister earned a badge
      One Year In
    • Week One Done
      Scoobystu earned a badge
      Week One Done
    • Week One Done
      tuben earned a badge
      Week One Done
    • First Post
      OffsetAbs earned a badge
      First Post
    • Reacting Well
      OffsetAbs earned a badge
      Reacting Well

  • Popular Contributors

    1. 1
      +primortal
      441
    2. 2
      +Edouard
      197
    3. 3
      PsYcHoKiLLa
      156
    4. 4
      FloatingFatMan
      71
    5. 5
      Steven P.
      67
    Show More

  • Tell a friend

    Love Neowin? Tell a friend!